Remember in 2015 we will turn it around... #nopreorders

[MavericK]

if you're definitely planning on buying a game then there's no harm with pre-ordering...in fact it might benefit you...people don't buy games based on pre-order goodies, that's just a bonus...they have to be interested in the base game...so in reality this #nopreorder movement is silly...you buy games based on the game not the preorder...change the hashtag to #nogames

Sorry dude, but this argument doesn't make any sense. The harm in pre-ordering is that you have no way of knowing whether or not the game is going to be shitty or not in like 90% of cases these days. If the game has a demo, final copy early reviews, whatever, and the game is good, then sure, by all means pre-order because you know exactly what you're getting. Unfortunately 99% of games these days don't have demos, and most of them time you are looking at review embargoes so you have zero information about the "finished" game before release.

People absolutely do pre-order based on goodies...otherwise, as Youn pointed out, what's the point? Originally the idea behind pre-ordering was to guarantee your physical copy of the game. These days, with digital distribution that obviously has no bearing on the situation. Sometimes you can get a discount on a pre-order but even then, you are still blindly gambling your money on something you hope doesn't suck.

If you don't care about pre-order incentives, there is nothing stopping you from buying the game two days after release, or two weeks, or whatever is necessary to get a clear view of what the game is, if it needs patching to be fixed, or if it's complete and utter shit.

The only people pre-orders actually benefit are (often shady) game publishers.

 

[TheToE!]

Sorry dude, but this argument doesn't make any sense. The harm in pre-ordering is that you have no way of knowing whether or not the game is going to be shitty or not in like 90% of cases these days. If the game has a demo, final copy early reviews, whatever, and the game is good, then sure, by all means pre-order because you know exactly what you're getting. Unfortunately 99% of games these days don't have demos, and most of them time you are looking at review embargoes so you have zero information about the "finished" game before release.

People absolutely do pre-order based on goodies...otherwise, as Youn pointed out, what's the point? Originally the idea behind pre-ordering was to guarantee your physical copy of the game. These days, with digital distribution that obviously has no bearing on the situation. Sometimes you can get a discount on a pre-order but even then, you are still blindly gambling your money on something you hope doesn't suck.

If you don't care about pre-order incentives, there is nothing stopping you from buying the game two days after release, or two weeks, or whatever is necessary to get a clear view of what the game is, if it needs patching to be fixed, or if it's complete and utter shit.

The only people pre-orders actually benefit are (often shady) game publishers.

QFT. People need to wake up. AAA publishers think we are so fucking stupid that they can just keep pushing the envelope regarding what they can get away with. You know what? They're right. We are fucking stupid. So lets wake up. Make them earn those sales. Pre-ordering/Pre-purchasing is a huge risk now in this environment of greed and bullshit.

 

[piscian18]

I still defend my Resident Evil Rebirth PC port Pre-order. I know exactly what I'm getting. It might have a couple day one bugs but it's a port of a game I already own and capcom is capcom. It really doesn't fall under the same banner as even the GTAV port because this was a game that was $60 but this port is $20. $15 on pre-order where as GTAV is $60 again.

Same thing with games like Walking Dead Season 3. If it has a preorder option with a significant discount I'll probably go ahead just so I can load it and be ready when the first episode comes out. It's proven continuation of something I like.

The enemy here is companies like EA and Ubisoft who have terrible reputations charging $60-100 and withholding content like a threat.

I think you have every right to protest and make a stink about Evolve. It's super overpriced title with significant content held back as a pre-order "incentive". Not cool. I do not in any way shape or form support that and would never pre-order that kind of product.

I'm not against pre-ordering like I'm not against DLC. I'm against shit fuck publishers who rip people off and then have big laugh about it in our faces.

 

[polonyc2]

Sorry dude, but this argument doesn't make any sense. The harm in pre-ordering is that you have no way of knowing whether or not the game is going to be shitty or not in like 90% of cases these days. If the game has a demo, final copy early reviews, whatever, and the game is good, then sure, by all means pre-order because you know exactly what you're getting. Unfortunately 99% of games these days don't have demos, and most of them time you are looking at review embargoes so you have zero information about the "finished" game before release

I was referring to games that you know that you are going to get regardless...everyone has those type of games...for me it's Dark Souls...unknown games you shouldn't pre-order...games that you are on the fence about, pre-orders might push you into buying it or not...pre-orders only suck when people blindly buy it without really knowing why...and again people buy games for the games themselves and not any pre-order goodies...no one buys a game solely because of pre-order bonuses...the best pre-order is a price discount...making people pay for important content sucks

demos etc will help a person decide if they want the game...the Evolve beta for example...so if you know you want it then pre-ordering has no effect either way

 

[piscian18]

I was referring to games that you know that you are going to get regardless...everyone has those type of games...for me it's Dark Souls...unknown games you shouldn't pre-order...games that you are on the fence about, pre-orders might push you into buying it or not...pre-orders only suck when people blindly buy it without really knowing why...and again people buy games for the games themselves and not any pre-order goodies...no one buys a game solely because of pre-order bonuses...the best pre-order is a price discount...making people pay for important content sucks

demos etc will help a person decide if they want the game...the Evolve beta for example...so if you know you want it then pre-ordering has no effect either way

Dark souls is tough. The new one is gonna be quite different as long as the preview and hands on are ok I'll be getting it day one but I don't wanna pre-order that one.

 

[Plague_Injected]

As idiotic as pre-ordering games is in this climate where there are no shortages and games are broken as fuck for weeks/months/years after release, you really can't control or even really influence how other people choose to spend their money. All you can do is choose how you will spend your own.

 

[Seyumi]

Fortunately for me I buy games faster than I can beat them. I'm technically 1.5 years behind in brand new game releases and I play my games in order from when they were released. Luckily for me, this means when I buy my games they are at least 1 year old, 75% off during a sale (so $15 at most), have all their DLC already released, and have most if not all bugs ironed out by this time. AAA publishers prey on the call of duty generation who want everything now and have absolutely no patience while I get a cheap, bug free, and expanded experience with all DLC upfront. PC gaming has never been better (at least for me). Steam sales make PC games so cheap that I can afford buying games I normally would hesitate on buying. All the pre-order DLC BS is usually released 99% of the time as well as a later DLC so I don't miss out on any content buying 1 year later versus preordering.

I encourage everyone to get in the same buying rhythm that I do and you'll never be disappointing with pricing, preorder BS, game bugs, review embargoes/hyped reviews, and DLC content you missed since you already beat the game. Even if you have no Steam back-log, I'm fairly confident you can browse the thousands of games in the catalog and find dozens, if not hundreds of games you passed on playing in the past 10+ years due to other obligations or you were to busy with better AAA titles. Play these until you're about a year behind like me and you'll be golden

 

[mr_zen256]

I usually don't backorder as a general rule of thumb. For me, this is due to the combination of distrust of modern developers and if it's a new IP.

In saying that, I've been burnt before with an established developer and existing IP with Red Faction: Armageddon. It really was a step backward for the franchise. In hindsight, it was (at the time) in it's final death throws. I'm hoping the new owners of the IP do the series justice.

I have already placed a preorder this year in GTA V. The reason being, I do have more faith in the port since Max Payne 3 was an excellent port.

Anything else.. It's just wait and see.

 

[Viper87227]

If there is a game I know I really want, and they are offering up pre-order incentives, I really don't have a qualm about picking it up. I pre-ordered DA:I at a discount and I love the game. I've got pre-orders out on both Witcher 3 and GTA V, and I'm not concerned about either title. Both are series that I love and nothings going to stop me from picking them up, so might as well pre-order.

I also pre-ordered both Destiny and Diablo 3 on PS4 last year. Diablo 3 I've played to death, no complains. Destiny is only so-so, but it's still a game that I would have purchased no matter what. There was no review or feedback post-release that would have prevented me from buying it, it was one of those things I had to experience first hand. So again in this case, me pre-ordering didn't work against me any more than buying the game after it released would have.

Prior to last year, other recent games that come to mind that I pre-ordered were Borderlands 2 and Skyrim. Given that those are the 1st and 3rd most played games on Steam for me, I can't complain there either. Same goes for BF3 and BF4. Pre-ordered both, have played the shit out of both. Also FWIW I didn't experience most of the issues that everyone had with BF4 when it released. Maybe I dind't play enough, I dunno... but I rarely had problems.

Bottom line is, I don't think eliminating pre-orders is necessary. I think being smart as a consumer and knowing when it is safe to pre-order and when it is not, is important. Ubisoft, for example, has shown us that it's not safe to pre-order their games. Between buggy releases and quality downgrades, that's absolutely a wait and see company. There are plenty of players in the industry that haven't let me down. If I can pick up a worthwhile incentive and/or a discount, and I know it's a game I'll be getting no matter what, then it's just not a problem to me.

 

[Ducman69]

I have already placed a preorder this year in GTA V. The reason being, I do have more faith in the port since Max Payne 3 was an excellent port.

But GTA IV is known as one of the worst ports in the history of PC gaming and the launch went horribly wrong. And its not like there aren't going to be post-launch incentives available.

Fortunately for me I buy games faster than I can beat them. I'm technically 1.5 years behind in brand new game releases and I play my games in order from when they were released. Luckily for me, this means when I buy my games they are at least 1 year old, 75% off during a sale (so $15 at most), have all their DLC already released, and have most if not all bugs ironed out by this time. AAA publishers prey on the call of duty generation who want everything now and have absolutely no patience while I get a cheap, bug free, and expanded experience with all DLC upfront. PC gaming has never been better (at least for me). Steam sales make PC games so cheap that I can afford buying games I normally would hesitate on buying.

Praise be onto the Gaben.

 

[Viper87227]

People absolutely do pre-order based on goodies...otherwise, as Youn pointed out, what's the point? Originally the idea behind pre-ordering was to guarantee your physical copy of the game. These days, with digital distribution that obviously has no bearing on the situation. Sometimes you can get a discount on a pre-order but even then, you are still blindly gambling your money on something you hope doesn't suck.

I don't think it's much different today. Consoles still rule the roost, and on consoles physical copies of games outnumber digital. I imagine with any given multi-platform game, a heavy majority of the pre-orders are of physical copies still.

PC, obviously, is dominated by digital distribution, but we're the exception, not the rule. You'll never see physical pre-orders eliminated as long as games are still coming on physical media. You'll also never see a state where a physical pre-order is made available but a digital one is not.

The bottom line is, publishers have absolutely nothing to lose by offering a pre-order. I don't know what anyone here hopes to accomplish. Even if you managed to make a tangible difference in pre-order numbers, nothing will change, because there is no reason to. A publisher has nothing to gain by deciding not to offer a pre-order. Sorry folks, but this is gaming in the 21st century.

 

[Ducman69]

The bottom line is, publishers have absolutely nothing to lose by offering a pre-order. I don't know what anyone here hopes to accomplish. Even if you managed to make a tangible difference in pre-order numbers, nothing will change, because there is no reason to. A publisher has nothing to gain by deciding not to offer a pre-order. Sorry folks, but this is gaming in the 21st century.

Uhhhhh, no.

Offering or not offering a pre-order is not the issue here at all. Whats at issue is reliance on a new pre-order business model, and that business model will fail if there aren't sufficient pre-orders to sustain it. Its as simple as that.

They can offer pre-orders all they want, but if only 10% of the userbase is pre-ordering, then they have to model their business over the 90% of revenue coming in, not the 10%. That means that pump-and-dump marketing driven selling of the IDEA of a game, rather than the actual end product, will simply no longer work because 90% of the userbase is waiting for reviews and "lets play" or demos and the like to see if the game sucks or not with bugs and failed launches and so forth. If it gets bad publicity at launch with bad reviews on Amazon and youtube and so forth, it will ruin sales of the game, so more emphasis will be placed on a positive first impression with a polished completed product. That's why they push the pre-order business model so much, because none of that matters if most people are buying the non-refundable IDEA of the game sight unseen.

 

[mr_zen256]

But GTA IV is known as one of the worst ports in the history of PC gaming and the launch went horribly wrong. And its not like there aren't going to be post-launch incentives available.

Praise be onto the Gaben.

You're entirely correct. I should be distrustful regardless of the MP3 release. I did like the minor incentives for pre-ordering, but I am regretful since they don't offer the bonuses that previous owners get. That's a bit lame.

They will most likely release it a month after release as $5 DLC. C**nts.

 

[Cmustang87]

I will be pre-ordering The Witcher 3: The Wild Hunt. I want 20% off of the game. Anything else in addition to that is icing on the cake. The only thing I really care about is customer appreciation discount.

However, I will NOT be preordering through Steam. I want my purchase to be backed by 30 days through GOG.com. They are doing things right. All other pre-orders can pound sand unless I know my purchase is guaranteed.

 

[piscian18]

I will be pre-ordering The Witcher 3: The Wild Hunt. I want 20% off of the game. Anything else in addition to that is icing on the cake. The only thing I really care about is customer appreciation discount.

However, I will NOT be preordering through Steam. I want my purchase to be backed by 30 days through GOG.com. They are doing things right. All other pre-orders can pound sand unless I know my purchase is guaranteed.

Steam pre-orders are pretty cringe worthy. They're overpriced and offer nothing but TF2 guns. It might not be a valve issue though. I notice indie and smaller publishers tend to give a nice 20-25% discount on pre-orders. Large publishers do not.

Jim is unsurprisingly pissed about Evolve pre-orders this week.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsgoD74vLIo

 

[Viper87227]

Uhhhhh, no.

Offering or not offering a pre-order is not the issue here at all. Whats at issue is reliance on a new pre-order business model, and that business model will fail if there aren't sufficient pre-orders to sustain it. Its as simple as that.

They can offer pre-orders all they want, but if only 10% of the userbase is pre-ordering, then they have to model their business over the 90% of revenue coming in, not the 10%. That means that pump-and-dump marketing driven selling of the IDEA of a game, rather than the actual end product, will simply no longer work because 90% of the userbase is waiting for reviews and "lets play" or demos and the like to see if the game sucks or not with bugs and failed launches and so forth. If it gets bad publicity at launch with bad reviews on Amazon and youtube and so forth, it will ruin sales of the game, so more emphasis will be placed on a positive first impression with a polished completed product. That's why they push the pre-order business model so much, because none of that matters if most people are buying the non-refundable IDEA of the game sight unseen.

Ok, I get what your saying here, but I don't think this is as big of an issue as you make it out to be. I'm sure there are a few publishers who release a game with the only goal being to hype, get as many pre-orders as possible, and dump the game. I don't think that mindset describes the gaming industry as a whole, however. There are plenty of people out there making genuinely great games, doing their best to deliver on the promises they make throughout development. And with companies like that, there is no harm in pre-ordering.

The concept of pre-ordering as a whole doesn't need to go. The companies who abuse it do. While I'd agree it's up to consumers to voice their concern, I think it needs to be done on a company-by-company basis, not the industry as a whole. I'm looking squarely at Ubisoft here. If someone we're to try to run a campaign to show Ubisoft that the tactics they utilized last year were not acceptable, I fully support that. And I think in a per-publisher basis, that might actually be possible. But to rally everyone against the gaming industry as a whole is both an idea that's not likely to work given the scope of the industry we're talking about, as well as an unfair to the developers that do deliver on their promises and continue to support their games post-release.

 

[Ducman69]

Ok, I get what your saying here, but I don't think this is as big of an issue as you make it out to be. I'm sure there are a few publishers who release a game with the only goal being to hype, get as many pre-orders as possible, and dump the game.

I think it is, and I think we see that in how hard they are pushed, the media blackouts, and even at the retail level how hard they are jumping on the pre-order bandwagon. At Gamestop for example it was reveled that pre-order sales numbers are actually one of the primary ways that employees are evaluated. And that is why we're also seeing so many retailers with store-specific game bonuses, as if you should get a different game from Target than you do if you bought it at Walmart. Da fug.

Another former employee, C., says that even though his store would get in more than enough copies to fill the pre-order reservations, “We were told to place the extra copies in the back. When a customer who did not pre-order the game came in to buy a copy, we were trained to make it seem like we might have 1 or 2 extras (even when we had 20+) and then ask them if they would like to reserve an upcoming game because they almost missed out on getting this game today.”

“GameStop stores (and their managers) live and die by the number of pre-orders and discounts cards they sell,” says B. a long-time employee at the chain. “It’s literally about the ONLY thing the company cares about with regards to its customers and they’ve become more and more hardcore about it with each passing year.”

I mean, heck, even Forbes is talking about how pre-ordering has changed how games are made: http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidth...g-to-get-worse-as-long-as-we-keep-doing-this/

This has come up at Forbes before, but it bears repeating. Pre-ordering games is a terrible idea, and you should never, ever do it. The very fact that we’re seeing things like this “pre-purchase” scheme should hammer the point home: publishers are needing to get more creative in order to get gamers to act against their own self interest.

This is the digital age of instant-gratification and unlimited reproduction of digital goods, but its amazing how much marketing push there is (and its success) in convincing generally intelligent people to promote a business model that goes against their best interest.

 

[RJ1892]

Only game I'll pre-order is MGSV:TPP and pretty sure Kojima won't do pre-orders. I usually don't pre-order unless I'm certain the game will be solid and their are reviews out the day before release (which lately it seems like they are getting rid of this).

Though I did Pre-Order Watch_Dogs because I was absolutely dieing for an openworld GTA style game. Learned my lesson there.

 

[piscian18]

Only game I'll pre-order is MGSV:TPP and pretty sure Kojima won't do pre-orders. I usually don't pre-order unless I'm certain the game will be solid and their are reviews out the day before release (which lately it seems like they are getting rid of this).

Though I did Pre-Order Watch_Dogs because I was absolutely dieing for an openworld GTA style game. Learned my lesson there.

you can pre-order it right now.

http://www.gamestop.com/ps4/games/metal-gear-solid-v-the-phantom-pain/115532

 

[MavericK]

reviews out the day before release (which lately it seems like they are getting rid of this).

There is a reason for that...

 

[Deleted member 83233]

Again, blanket "policies" are silly. If a good dev offers a game that I have enough information to decide on myself, and offers a significant introductory discount, I might want to jump on that, and save some money.

If I doubt the dev, don't have enough pre-release information, don't have something worthy of getting me to order before release, then I'm not going to do it.

There are differing circumstances for most releases.

I will agree that pre-orders, especially digital ones, are kind of silly in this day and age, but if I can get a good discount without much risk (due to making intelligent and informed decisions,) the fuck it. It's more about using one's brain, weighing possible risks against dev or publisher reputation, and early adoption incentives. If one can't do that, one shouldn't pre-order. An informed purchase is an informed purchase. An impulse purchase is an impulse purchase. If there's not enough information to make an informed purchase, wait until there is. Otherwise, take what you get an suck it I guess?

 

[Youn]

take what you get and suck it down I guess?

FTFY

 

[Deleted member 83233]

hehehe

I may have been a little harsh there, but I see this forum as a mostly somewhat intelligent group of people, who should be able to make an informed decision. Maybe that sometimes isn't the case, and even people that make mostly good decisions occasionally make a bad one.

If everyone made at least some effort to follow a project, and stay informed up to release, and only took devs and publishers seriously who generally treat their users/customers seriously, I don't think any of this would matter one bit. Sure, there might be a rare case, but it would be a massive improvement.

Where I typically see problems, is when everyone knows a game is shaping up to be something different than was promised, and then they all jump on it anyway. There was clear evidence of Watchdogs being less than promised, having fairly outlandish requirements for what was on-screen, etc. and people still pre-ordered. It was apparent for a couple of months. Plenty of time to cancel a pre-order. Yet everyone still bought it, and then complained about it. In cases like this, where people WERE informed well in advance, and STILL bought it... I don't know what to say, except the suck it/suck it down comment.

I think, and it may be a marginal line, that "most" games turn out to be what they were supposed to be to a large degree. They may be a bit shorter, or slightly toned down, or maybe have a few initial bugs, but for the most part are ok, and get ironed out pretty quickly. I can live with that. It's called PC Gaming, and has been the case since day one on PCs. People just whine more now. I want a bug free, fantastic product as much as the next guy, but anyone who was around back in IRQ jumper setting, mail in disk patch, multi-floppy install, trying to free up upper memory to launch days would tell you things are mostly better now. There are still problems, (some seem to get worse, while others get better) though.

Anyway, I may have hit the point of rambling now.

 

[Romale23]

What about homeworld remaster? caN I PRE ORDER that?

 

[polonyc2]

#pre-order2015

 

[piscian18]

What about homeworld remaster? caN I PRE ORDER that?

Its a Gearbox pre-order so you absolutely have to otherwise the Darwinists win.

 

[Ducman69]

What about homeworld remaster? caN I PRE ORDER that?

Sure, you can also put peanut butter up your butt. No one is going to stay your hand and stop you. We can only provide suggestions as to why its a bad idea, and suggest you:
1) Put the peanut butter in your mouth, and let it come OUT your butt later the way nature intended.
2) Wait until the game comes out, verify they deliver what they promised to a quality level you find acceptable as seen by your peers, online reviews, lets play, etc. and then decide to buy it or not. If its a digital download, you're talking about delaying satisfaction by a matter of hours.

 

[Arct1c0n]

Ummmm.... Nah, to hell with you guys.

 

[Terpfen]

-1

This is nonsense. Extremely buggy games existed before preorders, and existed when preorders were about allocating limited supply of a physical product instead of collecting revenue early.

Prove that preorders cause video games to be buggier than other major categories of software that do not allow preorders, and maybe this will have some legs.

 

[piscian18]

-1

This is nonsense. Extremely buggy games existed before preorders, and existed when preorders were about allocating limited supply of a physical product instead of collecting revenue early.

Prove that preorders cause video games to be buggier than other major categories of software that do not allow preorders, and maybe this will have some legs.

Ok fine Aliens colonial marines, Assassins creed unity, Sim City(whatever new shit one was), battlefield EVERY GODDAMN ONE SINCE 2.

This isn't just about bugs, here fuck I'm not gonna spoon feed you.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/9539-The-Poison-of-Pre-Order-Culture

 

[MavericK]

-1

This is nonsense. Extremely buggy games existed before preorders, and existed when preorders were about allocating limited supply of a physical product instead of collecting revenue early.

Prove that preorders cause video games to be buggier than other major categories of software that do not allow preorders, and maybe this will have some legs.

Who is positing that pre-orders cause games to be buggy?

The reason people are against pre-orders is that you don't know whether or not the game is going to be buggy/complete/worthy of your $40-60, but you are paying that full price either way.

 

[DPI]

Just pre-ordered Battlefield: Hardline, and Dying Light.

Suck it.

 

[SPARTAN VI]

I rarely preorder, but I do for franchises/developers who've earned my trust (e.g. Souls, Relic, Creative Assembly, Valve). The thing about trust is it only takes a second to betray it and it's gone forever. The most recent example of this applying to me is Rome 2 Total War. Thanks to that little gem, I won't preorder anything from Creative Assembly.

 

[Arct1c0n]

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/9539-The-Poison-of-Pre-Order-Culture

If you listen to that one sided opinion fat wad of a person, you've got bigger problems.

 

[qbanb8582]

Only game I'll pre-order is MGSV:TPP and pretty sure Kojima won't do pre-orders. I usually don't pre-order unless I'm certain the game will be solid and their are reviews out the day before release (which lately it seems like they are getting rid of this).

Though I did Pre-Order Watch_Dogs because I was absolutely dieing for an openworld GTA style game. Learned my lesson there.

That was your experience, but for me it was the opposite. I preordered Watch Dogs for the XB1 and enjoyed it alot, and had no problems with the game. I also had realistic expectations, I wasn't expecting something on the level of GTA V. I also stayed away from the PC version, because of Ubisofts previous PC ports.

 

[Terpfen]

Ok fine Aliens colonial marines, Assassins creed unity, Sim City(whatever new shit one was), battlefield EVERY GODDAMN ONE SINCE 2.

The frustrating thing here is that you somehow think games weren't buggy until preorders became a thing.

And, sorry, but I've seen basically every argument against pre-orders, from supposed effects on development and release schedules to QA deemphasis, and have yet to find any compelling reasoning. At this point, it's a mediocre image macro. Prove that video games are buggier or more problematic than all other comparable major categories of software, then prove that pre-orders have causation for this effect.

The economic "reasoning" most use for this stance wouldn't pass muster in a middle school economics course.

Who is positing that pre-orders cause games to be buggy?

/r/PCMR is a particularly prominent "think" tank for this theory. Oh, and OP took his image direct from PCMR.

The reason people are against pre-orders is that you don't know whether or not the game is going to be buggy/complete/worthy of your $40-60, but you are paying that full price either way.

Just like every other purchasable commodity on the planet. You pay your money and you take your risks. If you don't want to preorder, fine. Proselytizing it is more than a little ridiculous.

 

[MavericK]

/r/PCMR is a particularly prominent "think" tank for this theory. Oh, and OP took his image direct from PCMR.

Last time I checked, this wasn't Reddit, but okay.

Just like every other purchasable commodity on the planet. You pay your money and you take your risks. If you don't want to preorder, fine. Proselytizing it is more than a little ridiculous.

Except with many other commodities, you have things like warranties, return policies, and many other consumer protection measures that you don't have with games. Plus, how often do you "pre-order" something like furniture or household items? Not only that, but 99% of the time you are going to be able to see/feel/demo the item in question before buying. None of this is true with video games.

You are comparing apples to oranges here.

 

[piscian18]

The frustrating thing here is that you somehow think games weren't buggy until preorders became a thing.

And, sorry, but I've seen basically every argument against pre-orders, from supposed effects on development and release schedules to QA deemphasis, and have yet to find any compelling reasoning. At this point, it's a mediocre image macro. Prove that video games are buggier or more problematic than all other comparable major categories of software, then prove that pre-orders have causation for this effect.

The economic "reasoning" most use for this stance wouldn't pass muster in a middle school economics course.



/r/PCMR is a particularly prominent "think" tank for this theory. Oh, and OP took his image direct from PCMR.



Just like every other purchasable commodity on the planet. You pay your money and you take your risks. If you don't want to preorder, fine. Proselytizing it is more than a little ridiculous.

Theres a difference between a game having bugs and knowing full well that a release is half-finished, implementing a review embargo, ramping up pre-order sales and then dumping it on the market knowing the pre-order sales will more than make up for any returned product. This was clearly the case with Watch_dogs and marines. Even if it was HIGHLY COINCIDENTAL it's happening constantly now. It's to the point multiple criticaI review sites are coming out against pre-ordering period. You're just cupping your ears and going "LLALALALA". Theres nothing I can do for that.

 

[qbanb8582]

Last time I checked, this wasn't Reddit, but okay.



Except with many other commodities, you have things like warranties, return policies, and many other consumer protection measures that you don't have with games. Plus, how often do you "pre-order" something like furniture or household items? Not only that, but 99% of the time you are going to be able to see/feel/demo the item in question before buying. None of this is true with video games.

You are comparing apples to oranges here.

You don't have to preorder it you go through the samething buying the game day one or day 7. Only difference someone chose to preorder it. Its not as apples to oranges as you would expect. You go to movie theater and the movie sucks. You're not entitled to refund. Buy a pack of trading cards open it not get what you want and try to return it.

The problem isn't preordering the problem is the games are bad and buggy. I doubt if no one preordered it and everyone bought it on launch day it would've been any less buggy.

That is like me going to see a movie at the theater, hating the movie. Then blaming the movie theater and movie industry. Then start a stupid movement like #nomovietheaters2015 because I can't handle seeing a bad movie and paying for it.

 

[Derangel]

Theres a difference between a game having bugs and knowing full well that a release is half-finished, implementing a review embargo, ramping up pre-order sales and then dumping it on the market knowing the pre-order sales will more than make up for any returned product. This was clearly the case with Watch_dogs and marines. Even if it was HIGHLY COINCIDENTAL it's happening constantly now. It's to the point multiple criticaI review sites are coming out against pre-ordering period. You're just cupping your ears and going "LLALALALA". Theres nothing I can do for that.

And if people had paid fucking attention to both of those games they wouldn't have pre-ordered them in the first place. People love to bring up WD, ACM, Unity, etc as proof of no pre-ordering but it's not like those games ending up poorly was a surprise. Even though no one could have guessed the extent of Unity's issues, Ubi had more than proved itself untrustworthy. This is even more true on the PC side. After how shit the port of Black Flag was at launch that should have been a great sign for people to stop and go "maybe I should wait" then Watch_Dogs hit and was a bad game. With Aliens, I don't care how big a fan you are of the movies buying Pitchford's shit about loving the franchise and wanting to make a game for fans was idiotic. I don't blame Gearbox for DNF but Pitchford was in full bullshit mode when promoting that one as well.