help: picking hard drive that can take lots of shock

[Rasha]

Hi folks: im trying to do some crazy stuff because frankly im bored... So i want to put a computer inside my jeep wrangler:
the tricK: i have no clue how to get a storage device of any capacity that i can put operatinsystem/info on that can take offroading in a jeep
im just out of idea's

[ThatOldDude]

GL on your find....if you're talking serious off-roading (MOAB style) you'll prolly be hard pressed to find a HD that'll hold up to that kind of stress. If you do, just make sure they're put in their cages very securely and with some type of vibration dampening (for what it may be worth in that scenario).

[Rasha]

is there any storage setups that can run off say flash memory and that you can make the computer load from? and thnx for the feedback bdw but no nothing moab style but defently alot of up and down movement:P

[pilotace001]

hmm, dampening, and some sort of suspension maybe.. to keep the HD from bouncing.
(wrap it in a pillow ;))

[pilotace001]

there should be a way to boot from Ur flash drive, (gotta install OS on it, has to be pretty big, unless U run older OS), U can check Ur mobo bios to see if it can boot from USB. and set it as the first / or second (cd-first) item to boot from.

[Rasha]

Thats an interesting idea: my end goal is two fold: one is the obvious mp3 player :P and i want to hook it into satalite internet so i can listen to my chronix aggression winamp station in my jeep ohe yea and gps navigation of course,

[pilotace001]

But then you run into the problem if having your whole system somehow stabilized. can't be too good to have it bounce around. unless small-profile system that you can strap down somewhere. might consider laptop, little space, audio out port / LCD if needed. (and just to run mp3, and such don't need to be high end either...)

[HarvInSTL]

I don't have the model # here with me, but I've purchased a few mp3 players lately from BestBuy with just the intention of taking them apart to see what was inside.

The iRiver H10 uses a very small 5GB drive from Seagate. As well the Samsung YH-920 uses the same 20GB drive that is inside some of the iPods. Not sure about the iPods but I know with the H10 I could shake it up and down for 2 or 3 minutes and not get a skip.

But I must ask the obvious, why go to these lengths when you could just get a flash memory based MP3 player and hook it up to your stereo?

And while I understand that you like to listen to chronix aggression, is there not a XM or Sirus station that comes close to it?

Just perfect for you! Hot Beaver Action! (http://cgi.ebay.com/Panasonic-CF-48-Toughbook-P4-1-6Ghz-Laptop-256MB-20GB_W0QQitemZ6828044757QQcategoryZ42205QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem )

I also started thinking that maybe a Windows Based PDA that should allow for the GPS, maybe you can get a card for your internet access. And put your mp3's on flash storage.
But by the time you get done doing that the price will be close if not more than that Toughbook I linked too.

[Rasha]

i was thinking about one of the via epia systems there slow but should do the job. and yea i know there are easier ways to get almost what but its not what i want

[pilotace001]

how much are those (or you already have all the parts, or from scratch?)

[tdg]

I know Seagate Momentus laptop hard drives are rated at 250 G's operating shock, so if you don't use CF for storage, a laptop hard drive is your best bet.

[Ice Czar]

microdrives

the smaller the platter the more shock\impact it can withstand

personally Id use alot of RAM, a small microdrive or 2 for the OS & aps or loaded media
(lean linux install) and large capacity USB drives to load media into memory
that is if the objective is to listen to music or watch video on top of a mountain


http://images.dr3vil.com/index.php

[unhappy_mage]

Laptop hard drives are definitely an option, or a CF adapter (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822998002) with a card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820160022) (or a bigger one (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820160137R)) in it can do the trick, although speeds aren't great (not that you need it, of course...).

http://www.hardfolding.com/ftag1.php/mem/150072 (http://www.hardfolding.com?go=38&id=150072&tm=33)

[Ice Czar]

Hitachi 8GB Microdrive (http://www.hgst.com/portal/site/en/?epi_menuItemID=92382478a130ca1492480021aac4f0a0&epi_menuID=88209297e0b10f8056fb11f0aac4f0a0&epi_baseMenuID=3d0cb215112b6934ab937c27aac4f0a0)

Operating
Shock (half sine wave) 400 G (2 ms)
Random Vibration (RMS) 0.67 G (5 - 500Hz)

Non-operating
Shock (half sine wave) 2000 G (1 ms)
Random Vibration (RMS) 3.01 G (5 to 500 Hz)

Drop Proofing a HDD (http://www.hgst.com/tech/techlib.nsf/techdocs/3F6AF8812AB89C678625706700534B1A/$file/Drop_proof.pdf) PDF whitepaper

http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/op/mediaSize-c.html

a 6GB is running about $200, plenty for a lean Linux distro with lots to spare for aps and media
of course Id still take steps to isolate and protect the whole computer from shock and vibration

[DougLite]

http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/n4k30/n4k30.htm

Hitachi Endurastar line, designed from the ground up for automotive applications. Good to go in environments of -20 to 85 C, and 250G operating shock, if you need lots of rugged capacity, they are the only way to fly.

[Rasha]

wow those hitachi' endurewhatevers look great 5 g's operating vibration is perfect i dont think im going to be able to shock dampen any of it as it hast to fit underneat the stock backseat... if its noticeable it will probably be stolen. that being said thanky'all for the feedback its been very helpful: these are the initial mb/proc im looking at http://www.case-mod.com/store/cpu-motherboard-via-miniitx-c-154_155.html?osCsid=b8f6843112871f3285095614b52ab724 any other idea's suggestions please tell. right now im thinking a motorized touch screen because they sell these overhead wielded metal compartments you would need a blowtorch to take things out of

[xdkimx]

if u wont mind the price and little space u could go with gigabytes i-ram http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=2480 probably not as reliable tho since data could easily be erased if the battery fails or something

[Rasha]

this is looking more and more viable that iram thing is pretty neat.. i wonder how mutch it draws off the car battery when its turned off to maintain the ram... hrmz can't be that mutch thats a pretty dinky battery on the card and that lasts 16 hours

[Rasha]

anyone know if you can boot off one drive and then have it move the entire linux distro to another to run off of?

[unhappy_mage]

anyone know if you can boot off one drive and then have it move the entire linux distro to another to run off of?
You can boot Knoppix or a similar distro from a CF card and load it entirely into RAM if you have 1gb or more (more helps, of course). This means you could eliminate the Gigabyte thing.

http://www.hardfolding.com/ftag1.php/mem/150072 (http://www.hardfolding.com?go=38&id=150072&tm=33)

[Rasha]

wow hmm now i need to measure out the space i got decide for sure on a form factor and get started.. and i gota find a satalitte internet service that will run off a wip antenna.. you know what i really wanted was something like the iram but that has compact flash instead of ddr.. but i guess i can only dream.. and by that i saw the idea to cf adapter but i ment something more along the lines of multiple cf cards

[davidlem]

Any design that has a spinning platter and an armature that interacts with it to read/write data is a terrible bet for this application. I don't care what the manufacturer claims. Physical damage guarantees 100% data loss. There's just no two ways about it.

[Rasha]

hense why im using compact flash, i dont really see any alternative

[Ice Czar]

Any design that has a spinning platter and an armature that interacts with it to read/write data is a terrible bet for this application. I don't care what the manufacturer claims. Physical damage guarantees 100% data loss. There's just no two ways about it.

yet the photographer sitting in the Jeep snapping photos of the pretty Aspens doesnt give his microdrive a second thought :p

scale matters
some not so self evident considerations

Reducing the hard disk platter's diameter by a factor of two approximately quadruples its rigidity.

The flatness and uniformity of a platter is critical to its quality; an ideal platter is perfectly flat and consistent. Imperfect platters lead to low manufacturing yield and the potential for data loss due to the heads contacting uneven spots on the surface of a platter. Smaller platters are easier to make than larger ones.

Mass Reduction: For performance reasons, hard disk spindles are increasing in speed. Smaller platters are easier to spin and require less-powerful motors. They are also faster to spin up to speed from a stopped position. A microdrive can spin down and back up again in less than a second.

Microdrives routinely withstand shocks that would trash a normal or laptop HDD.
a 400G operating shock is nothing to sneeze at, its nearly twice the Gs of a ruggidized laptop drive and
a "normal" IDE HDD is somewhere around 65G


Performance of Compact Flash sucks, ergo my recommendation of a mixed solution
alot of RAM so that in effect your loading the OS in its entirety (mini distro) into memory, there is your RAMdisk, then a Microdrive that is infrequently accessed followed by CF for storage


as far as mounting under that seat, softfoam over harder foam

Id also look into a ruggidized optical, hell you can run the OS off of that