Bill Gates can frisk your computer.

[Retardo]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050726.wxmicrosoft0726/BNStory/International/

[EinsteiN]

Welcome to bizarro world, where you are guilty until proven innocent...

And why not stop there, you know since they're already looking, why not look for child porn, teorrist text, secret trader information, etc.

Yes MS of all companies needs to be all knowing and omnipotent.

:mad:

-E

http://www.hardfolding.com/ftag1.php/mem/278.png (http://www.hardfolding.com?go=38&id=278)

[finalgt]

Err...they're just verifying the authenticity of the operating system which THEY make...this is just about the most non-invasive way I can think of for them to do this. I say all is fair when it comes to their intellectual property; your "kiddie pr0n / terrorist references" metaphor is way off base.

[Empyrean]

Don't you trust Mr. Gates with your personal information?

It's not like anything bad can happen by sharing all your personal information with strangers.

[EinsteiN]

Err...they're just verifying the authenticity of the operating system which THEY make...this is just about the most non-invasive way I can think of for them to do this. I say all is fair when it comes to their intellectual property; your "kiddie pr0n / terrorist references" metaphor is way off base.

From TFA :

The company will scan machines for a variety of information, including product keys or software authorization codes, operating-system version and details on the flow of data between the operating system and other hardware, such as printers.

It doesn't state any where that they limit themselves to just looking for MS related data.

-E

http://www.hardfolding.com/ftag1.php/mem/278.png (http://www.hardfolding.com?go=38&id=278)

[SJConsultant]

From TFA :


It doesn't state any where that they limit themselves to just looking for MS related data.



Nor do I see any evidence of such information being collected. Only conjecture at this point.

[XOR != OR]

Nor do I see any evidence of such information being collected. Only conjecture at this point.Unfortunately, MS's history is such that we have to assume they *are* sniffing extra data.

Unless they state otherwise. In which case they've encrypted what they are doing, and it'll be harder to find.

[finalgt]

Their history of what? Invasive security measures? And when have they done that before, praytell?

[SJConsultant]

Taken directly from MS website (http://www.microsoft.com/genuine/downloads/faq.aspx):

<quote>
Q:
What information is collected from my computer?


A:
The genuine validation process will collect information about your system, such as Windows product key, PC manufacturer, and operating system version, to determine if Windows is genuine. This process does not collect or send any information that can be used to identify you or contact you. The complete list of information collected in the validation process is shown below:

OEM product key
PC Manufacturer
OS version
PID/SID
BIOS info (make, version, date)
BIOS MD5 Checksum
User Locale (language setting for displaying Windows)
System Local (language version of the operating system)
</endquote>

Nothing above IMO is an invasion of privacy or security. But then again zealots will undoubtedly rebuke the FAQ and claim otherwise. :rolleyes:

So far using Commview, the validation process does not use encryption so it's open for anyone to view what information is being communicated to MS.

[ScreamingBroccoli]

They don't even really do anything if it's counterfiet anyways....

[pigster]

Nothing above IMO is an invasion of privacy or security. But then again zealots will undoubtedly rebuke the FAQ and claim otherwise.

Well, even that Globe and Mail article says

The company said it commissioned TÜV-ITÖ, an independent German security auditor, to test how well its Windows Genuine Advantage program protects customers' data, and the firm concluded that Microsoft does not collect any personal information that would allow it to identify or contact a user.

Seth Schoen, a staff technologist at the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a civil liberties group in San Francisco specializing in technology issues, agreed that Microsoft would not be able to identify customers personally through the program.

It's really a political issue. Some people dislike MS and this is just further proof that they are satanic and evil. Why companies like Adobe and Autodesk, who are also monopolistic and require software activation, aren't equally hated is something of a mystery to me.

[Dokein]

window.g_sDisableWGACheck='all'

http://www.boingboing.net/2005/07/28/microsoft_genuine_ad.html

That was quick.

[BlackAcidDevil]

I validated once and kept the code from the validation tool and just keep using it over and over without having to run the validation tool. Its more of a pain in the rear that u have to go through all this crap for DirectX or MS Antispy. With them checking product key and not encrypting the data I wonder how many valid keys will be stolen?

[Oppy]

you do understand that you can just change one thing in internet explorer and it works , no fancy stuff just one thing.

[ComputerBox34]

Taken directly from MS website (http://www.microsoft.com/genuine/downloads/faq.aspx):

<quote>
Q:
What information is collected from my computer?


A:
The genuine validation process will collect information about your system, such as Windows product key, PC manufacturer, and operating system version, to determine if Windows is genuine. This process does not collect or send any information that can be used to identify you or contact you. The complete list of information collected in the validation process is shown below:

OEM product key
PC Manufacturer
OS version
PID/SID
BIOS info (make, version, date)
BIOS MD5 Checksum
User Locale (language setting for displaying Windows)
System Local (language version of the operating system)
</endquote>

Nothing above IMO is an invasion of privacy or security. But then again zealots will undoubtedly rebuke the FAQ and claim otherwise. :rolleyes:

So far using Commview, the validation process does not use encryption so it's open for anyone to view what information is being communicated to MS.

What if some corrupt admin manipulates the software and finds out a way to get more information than that? Then they sell it off to spammers or even the government. Its just like what happens to companies like amazon.com when their admins get to look at email addresses and then sell them off. Of course the only reason why MS even suggested it is because of this reason:

For Microsoft, the new policy is a stepped-up effort to combat the loss of billions of dollars worth of software sales every year to counterfeiters around the world.

And what if MS brings people to court with proof that they have pirated copies of XP because they realize that they can track IP's, etc? They can easily sue anyone with pirated copies.

But I'm willing to bet that it will evolve from that. Pretty soon they could come up with reasons such as what if this person is a terroist or a criminal. What then? They step up from a frisk to a full blown search? I'm very uneasy about this and we haven't heard the last from it. As soon as the government figures a way to implement this technology into our everyday internet lives, they'll have a canary.

I don't know about you guys but every day I feel like that people are trying to take away my rights and privacy more and more. *sigh*

[Lethal]

Q:
What information is collected from my computer?

A:
The genuine validation process will collect information about your system, such as ... PC manufacturer ...
WTF? That's none of their damned business. If they want to inquire about validity to use the OS based on having purchased an OEM box or whatever and you voluntarily give the info, that's one thing. It scares me that they could possibly be scanning my HD for intrusive info like that. :mad:

[SJConsultant]

WTF? That's none of their damned business. If they want to inquire about validity to use the OS based on having purchased an OEM box or whatever and you voluntarily give the info, that's one thing. It scares me that they could possibly be scanning my HD for intrusive info like that. :mad:

They don't have to scan the HDD for that information. It can be obtained by querying WMI information from the motherboard.

People need to stop for a moment do a little research on their own and *think* about it before jumping on the proverbial "t3h MS is 3v1l!!!!" bandwagon. This is not to say people shouldn't express their opinoin, but too many times people do just that without having all the "facts" at hand.

[cuemasterfl]

People worry too much.

[finalgt]

What if some corrupt admin manipulates the software and finds out a way to get more information than that? Then they sell it off to spammers or even the government. Its just like what happens to companies like amazon.com when their admins get to look at email addresses and then sell them off. Of course the only reason why MS even suggested it is because of this reason:



And what if MS brings people to court with proof that they have pirated copies of XP because they realize that they can track IP's, etc? They can easily sue anyone with pirated copies.

But I'm willing to bet that it will evolve from that. Pretty soon they could come up with reasons such as what if this person is a terroist or a criminal. What then? They step up from a frisk to a full blown search? I'm very uneasy about this and we haven't heard the last from it. As soon as the government figures a way to implement this technology into our everyday internet lives, they'll have a canary.

I don't know about you guys but every day I feel like that people are trying to take away my rights and privacy more and more. *sigh*

One of those "corrupt admins" (what does that even mean?) could also just as likely shoot you in the chest the next time you go to the supermarket. You shouldn't worry about either, though, because both are ridiculously unlikely.

You need to take off the tinfoil hat. When Microsoft starts spending millions upon millions of dollars to prosecute people who are pirating their operating systems, it eliminates the point of implementing simple anti-piracy counter measures in the first place. There is nothing that would indicate that this is intended for all the 1337 monkies who have 373732 different Windows CD keys; it's directed towards the people who thought they bought legitimate copies which were actually pirated. By tracking these instances, Microsoft probably thinks they can eventually round up more of the people who are making money selling illegal versions of Windows.

I guess what it all comes down to is that if you don't want to be caught for using illegal stuff, you should stop using illegal stuff. :rolleyes:

[hulksterjoe]

WTF? That's none of their damned business. If they want to inquire about validity to use the OS based on having purchased an OEM box or whatever and you voluntarily give the info, that's one thing. It scares me that they could possibly be scanning my HD for intrusive info like that. :mad:

Actually, The manufactuer name and such is know by the bios lock thats used by the larger system builders.. you'll get a message like this if your system is built by one us.

The scan of your computer has completed. The Windows product key associated with your copy of Windows maps to one of the major PC manufacturers who purchase Windows product keys from Microsoft. The specific product key found on your computer maps to a major PC manufacturer that sells different hardware than the hardware found on your machine. This will not prevent you from validating now, but may cause you problems in the future. Please click Continue to complete the validation process.

or you may not even get this.. I got this and I'm using one of our computers, they guy next to me didnt..

[S1nF1xx]

Microsoft doesn't give one flying fuck about you or anything about your life. If you're really concered about MS trying to figure out your hobbies or love interests, go here:

http://zapatopi.net/afdb.html

[Phoenix86]

WTF? That's none of their damned business. If they want to inquire about validity to use the OS based on having purchased an OEM box or whatever and you voluntarily give the info, that's one thing. It scares me that they could possibly be scanning my HD for intrusive info like that. :mad:
Actually, The manufactuer name and such is know by the bios lock thats used by the larger system builders.. you'll get a message like this if your system is built by one us.

The scan of your computer has completed. The Windows product key associated with your copy of Windows maps to one of the major PC manufacturers who purchase Windows product keys from Microsoft. The specific product key found on your computer maps to a major PC manufacturer that sells different hardware than the hardware found on your machine. This will not prevent you from validating now, but may cause you problems in the future. Please click Continue to complete the validation process.

or you may not even get this.. I got this and I'm using one of our computers, they guy next to me didnt..
It's too much already. Validate the key and move on. No need to cross compare the key with the BIOS version. The key will be tied to that BIOS on the first activation, and then they can deny your activation because it was already activated on another mobo.

So everyone upgrading mobos with an OEM license will be fuxored.

Time for everyone to stop buying OEM and step up to retail licenses. Really, the 3 pack VLA is looking mighty nice these days...

I don't see a benefit of validation to the customers. Since it's main goal is to prevent hackers, and it was cracked within 24 hours, it's USELESS.

[Phoenix86]

Microsoft doesn't give one flying fuck about you or anything about your life.
Consumers don't give one flying fuck about activation. It's a two way street, but MS knows they have us over a barrel for now...

*drops pants*

[Canon]

This whole thing doesn't really bother me very much.

I think Microsoft is well within it's rights to protect it's software.

And as other posters have indicated this isn't about cracking down on the l33t people who are downloading from Kazaa, or whatever. It's to put a stop to these crooked businesses who are building computers and then installing pirated OSs so that they can keep the money they were supposed to give to Microsoft.

I think this is actually going to work quite well in the grand scheme of things. It's better than doing nothing. I think it's great that the people who got ripped off have some recourse and can get a free copy. Really cool.

[M11]

This has already been cracked, so its certainly not the pirates who will feel any inconvenience. Why does Microsoft keep hassling legitimate purchasers when their measures do nothing to combat piracy?

[S1nF1xx]

This has already been cracked, so its certainly not the pirates who will feel any inconvenience. Why does Microsoft keep hassling legitimate purchasers when their measures do nothing to combat piracy?

Yep, this is the problem with DRM, anti-piracy, all that crap. It's a hassle for the legitimate users, no one else. Same thing with no-cd cracks for games, pirating games so you can still use alcohol or Daemon Tools or WinISO or whatever. "Do I legitimately purchase the game and loose functionality of my computer? Or do I pirate it so that I can continue using my computer?"

It's a bunch of crap. But one day down the road, they're going to realize none of that garbage works and it's a turn-off to consumers. As soon as people can resist the urge to purchase songs off iTunes with their DRM, or resist the urge to buy programs that require grand-scale activation, it will all disappear.

[Phoenix86]

This whole thing doesn't really bother me very much.

I think Microsoft is well within it's rights to protect it's software.

And as other posters have indicated this isn't about cracking down on the l33t people who are downloading from Kazaa, or whatever. It's to put a stop to these crooked businesses who are building computers and then installing pirated OSs so that they can keep the money they were supposed to give to Microsoft.

I think this is actually going to work quite well in the grand scheme of things. It's better than doing nothing. I think it's great that the people who got ripped off have some recourse and can get a free copy. Really cool.
If this is targeted at the re-seller, then why does it impact the consumer so much? Punish me because Joe Blow is selling OEM COAs? Nice.

You can only get a free copy if you have proof of purchase, good luck getting Joe Blow to provide a reciept. He's doing it under the table, there won't be proof of purchase...

These are heavy handed tactics. If I had a viable option, I'd consider it more now then ever.

[HHunt]

Yep, this is the problem with DRM, anti-piracy, all that crap. It's a hassle for the legitimate users, no one else. Same thing with no-cd cracks for games, pirating games so you can still use alcohol or Daemon Tools or WinISO or whatever. "Do I legitimately purchase the game and loose functionality of my computer? Or do I pirate it so that I can continue using my computer?"

It's a bunch of crap. But one day down the road, they're going to realize none of that garbage works and it's a turn-off to consumers. As soon as people can resist the urge to purchase songs off iTunes with their DRM, or resist the urge to buy programs that require grand-scale activation, it will all disappear.

The worst case of this I've seen so far was with a game I bought (no, can't remember which one) where the CD validation didn't work with my drive. If it started at all (not at all a given), it took several minutes to check it, and the game had a tendency to flake out while playing. Adding a nocd-crack made it playable.

It's just so silly. They took their protection to a point where the game stopped working for people, while the cracked versions that still appeared within a day or so worked perfectly.

(It might have been C&C:generals, but don't quote me on it.)

[S1nF1xx]

The worst case of this I've seen so far was with a game I bought (no, can't remember which one) where the CD validation didn't work with my drive. If it started at all (not at all a given), it took several minutes to check it, and the game had a tendency to flake out while playing. Adding a nocd-crack made it playable.

It's just so silly. They took their protection to a point where the game stopped working for people, while the cracked versions that still appeared within a day or so worked perfectly.

(It might have been C&C:generals, but don't quote me on it.)

Yep, games are getting really bad these days. I shouldn't have to uninstall a fully legitimate program just so I can play a game. That's just barbaric. They will NEVER (in the foreseeable future anyway) win the war against piracy. It's impossible without some ridiculous invasion of privacy. If someone can sit down and code an anti-piracy procedure, someone else can sit down and decode and recode it.

So when your game you just bought doesn't work with the software on your computer, what do you do? Return the game? Good luck, the game's been opened. Sell it online? Good luck, people are scared of a used CD-Key. Pirate the game so you can actually play it? What other option do you have? It's a paradox.

Consumers need to start speaking up with their wallets. Stop promoting the shit by not using it. However Windows is another story alltogether. There's no way around using it for most of the market.

[SJConsultant]

So why doesn't someone start a thread on how a decent copyright protection scheme can be implemented and point software vendors to it?

Everyone is saying how it sucks, its heavy handed, but isn't the point of some of these discussions to provide solutions to those problems? ;)

[S1nF1xx]

So why doesn't someone start a thread on how a decent copyright protection scheme can be implemented and point software vendors to it?

That's the problem, there isn't a decent copyright protection scheme. They are all crackable, and many of them just hurt the legitimate consumer.

[Phoenix86]

Everyone is saying how it sucks, its heavy handed, but isn't the point of some of these discussions to provide solutions to those problems? ;)
Solution: Wait until a better solution exists, implement lesser restrictions until then.

[SJConsultant]

Solution: Wait until a better solution exists, implement lesser restrictions until then.

That's the problem, there isn't a decent copyright protection scheme. They are all crackable, and many of them just hurt the legitimate consumer.

Heh... stuck in a conundrum.

[Phoenix86]

Heh... stuck in a conundrum.
That's not *my* problem until the manufacturers make it one. ;)

[Jerunk]

What if some corrupt admin manipulates the software and finds out a way to get more information than that? Then they sell it off to spammers or even the government. Its just like what happens to companies like amazon.com when their admins get to look at email addresses and then sell them off. Of course the only reason why MS even suggested it is because of this reason:



And what if MS brings people to court with proof that they have pirated copies of XP because they realize that they can track IP's, etc? They can easily sue anyone with pirated copies.

But I'm willing to bet that it will evolve from that. Pretty soon they could come up with reasons such as what if this person is a terroist or a criminal. What then? They step up from a frisk to a full blown search? I'm very uneasy about this and we haven't heard the last from it. As soon as the government figures a way to implement this technology into our everyday internet lives, they'll have a canary.

I don't know about you guys but every day I feel like that people are trying to take away my rights and privacy more and more. *sigh*

Better put on your tinfoil hat.

edit:just noticed somebody linked to deflector beanies, lol.