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Archer75
07-26-2005, 08:45 PM
"The new Windows will be called Windows Vista. From now on the name Longhorn will not be used by Microsoft anymore, but it's possible that you'll encounter the name Longhorn in the two upcoming beta's.

This article contains information about how Windows Vista will handle 2D and 3D graphics and information about Vista's new features.

Vista uses the Windows Graphics Foundation, or WGF. WGF 1.0 will use DirectX 9.0c as its primary interface, but Vista will also have the Next-Gen 3D API build in. You can see it as DirectX 10, but it's officially called WGF 2.0.

One of the important features of WGF is the Longhorn Display Driver Model (LDDM). It is possible with LDDM to install a new graphics driver without even rebooting your system. LDDM will ship in two stages. The first, called basic, supports current generation graphics hardware: shader model 2.0 and 3.0 capable hardware. The second stage of LDDM, advanced, will support hardware features that ship at the same time or after Vista is released, but will work with the new features in WGF 2.0. Because of the competitive way of graphics hardware development, we'll probably see advanced LDDM capable hardware before Vista is released. The current Windows XP driver model is still supported, but will be frozen going forward.

Advantages of Vista above XP:
- run more than 15 graphical applications at the same time instead of 2
- complete control manager to optimize system resources
- every window in Vista will be a 3D surface (when opening My Computer you're actually watching an interactive 3D texture)
- applications can be bigger than graphic card memory currently allows (advanced VRAM simulation)
- split your monitor into four pieces and play games at the same time while listening to your favourite music with Winamp, watching a movie with Windows Media Player and posting spam on the Guru3D forums
- Vista uses DirectX (WGF) to draw the Windows Desktop
- you are able to rotate your windows in a 3D way, so you can push it to the background, put it upside down or squeeze it in a corner. This way you'll be able to have more windows on your screen at the same time
- Vista supports up to 160 open windows at the same time
- there are four different graphic modes for Vista (2GB/256MB/128MB/64MB textures)
- new motherboard BIOS'es will be integrated into Vista itself
- some of the BIOS settings can be changed within Windows and you won't even have to reboot to apply the new settings
- with XP, users got a lot of freedom to configure and tweak their system but Microsoft says that with Vista the 'more advanced' users will get the freedom to customize and tweak even more features of Windows that weren't possible in XP

Now some very important info about gaming on Vista:
- there will be NO graphical difference between an ATI or nVidia card anymore, the only difference will be overall performance
- WGF 2.0 allows GPU processing without CPU intervention
- The Xbox 360 uses some of the technology Vista will use to handle games on the PC

If you want to play a game, Vista will disable every component of your computer that isn't needed by the graphical interface and unloads the Windows Desktop (it's like running a game in MSDOS).

While it's true that the graphics technology for Vista is very advanced, it's also true that Microsoft is trying to have a wide array of hardware specifications. By the time Vista actually ships, almost every new PC should be able to support the user interface and Windows Graphics Foundation.

That doesn't mean users will need GeForce 6800 Ultras or comparable cards. As we've seen, the user interface will support four different qualities, the most basic should even run on most of today's hardware. If you want the full Vista experience, you'll want a heavy system and graphics hardware, and lots of memory.

Windows Vista will most probably be released in the second half of 2006.

Important:
- Don't think of buying a computer today and use it to run Vista next year on the highest settings
- Memory is the most important component for future computing (graphics and system memory)

Extreme minimum requirements:
1.4 GHz processor
256 MB memory
64 MB videocard
7200 RPM HD 2 MB cache

For the highest settings (speculation):
3.6 GHz processor
2 GB memory
1 GB videocard with WGF 2.0 support
15000 RPM HD 1 GB flash memory

The highest settings requirements are only for software and graphics developers.

Update 1: VISTA CHANGES PC INTO GAME-CONSOLE
Dean Lester, the General Manager of Windows Graphics and Gaming says Microsoft is making the gaming-functionality of Windows Vista the same as a modern game-console, but wants to keep the advantages of PC gaming like high-end graphics and sound hardware, online communities, community support and downloadable content.

Update 2: COMPUTERS WITH DIFFERENT LEVELS
Microsoft is working together with nVidia, ATI, AMD and Intel to develop pre-configured computers with different levels, low, mid and high range hardware-configurations for different sales prices. PC's with a certain configuration of CPU, videocard and memory will be split in different levels. Because of this, choosing a PC for gaming gets a lot easier, because fast computers will get a higher level. The system requirements on game-packages will have a level requirement, so you can see if the level of your computer is high enough to handle a game.

Update 3: EASY TO USE
With Vista Microsoft wants to eliminate the long installation procedures that PC games have. Installing and playing a game should be as easy as with a console. They too are developing a special driver manager, so you won't have any problems with different drivers. This means no problems with flickering textures, stuttering and crashing anymore, because the drivers will be fully controled by the graphics interface and because of this system nVidia and ATI can develop and test their drivers for problems within a few seconds. Updating drivers and BIOS'es will get a lot easier because Windows Update will get a special feature that automatically checks if your hardware is up to date and automatically updates your drivers, BIOS'es, the Vista graphics interface and even updates for the most important feature of Vista, WGF 2.0.

Update 4: FUTURE GRAPHICS
Microsoft is going to implement Pixel and Vertex Shader 4.0 support into the new graphics interface, so in the near future after Vista is released there doesn't have to be another newer version of WGF to be released. Epic has announced that their Unreal 3 Engine will support future pixel and vertex shader versions that are going to be implemented when the Unreal 3 Engine is near completion.

Update 5: SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS AND RESOURCE USAGE
Vista uses a lot of memory, but it uses it for a good reason. Vista doesn't even have loading times when you're using Explorer, Internet Explorer or any other primary Windows component. The big amount of memory thats being used isn't just for the textures but it contains every important file thats needed by Explorer when running a primary Windows application. When you start a game, the Vista graphics interface immediately unloads everything out of the memory that isn't needed by your 'game hardware' (video, sound and physics card) such as the 3D Windows Desktop. Users are able to change the way Vista reacts when they boot up a game or 3D application. WGF is fully customizable to your own needs. For example, you can keep the Windows Desktop loaded and play a game at the same time, or if you have a fast system run both in split screen. To do all this fast loading and unloading you need to have fast memory and ofcourse a fast harddisk. But here's the problem. The harddisks we use today are far too slow (12000 RPM is not fast enough) and will be a huge bottleneck when loading huge amounts of files into the memory. That's why Microsoft and Samsung are working on a new Hybrid hard drive that will use 1 GB flash memory as a buffer. They want to take part of the load of the spinning drive and to lower loading times and boot times drastically. Vista will fully support this technology. Microsoft and Samsung are still working on a way to unload files very fast from the harddisks flash memory. Next year Microsoft will start a huge marketing campaign for new hardware they are developing and they will give an update on the development of the Hybrid harddisk. When using a Hybrid harddisk in a mid-range computer of today (2 GHz, 1 GB RAM) you will have boot-times of about 5-10 seconds. Imagine how fast a high-end PC in late 2006 will be.

Update 6: ICONS
In Vista icons will be completely changed. Documents don't have a icon anymore that shows the file-type, but it shows the first page of the document. Folder-icons will show you the inside files by using 3D technology. You'll see the files coming forward in a slideshow while you're watching the folder.

Update 7: STABILITY
Vista will be the most stable OS ever. Microsoft admitted that it had problems with stability with Windows ME and XP (without SP), but they really are making work of making Vista unbelievably stable. Microsoft even has made three special teams that researched Vista and future technologies for two years. After Vista is released, Microsoft doesn't even have to release any updates to make Vista stable, because Vista manages itself automatically and disables processes that can make your computer unstable and are unneeded by the applications you're running.

Update 8: SECURITY
Vista will have a better internet security. Instead of using very advanced ways to protect your computer, they're using somewhat primitive ways to keep users away from your harddisk. For example, Vista is able to completely halt every type of data transfer from your computer to any hardware component and is able to pause your internet connection when there is happening something suspicious. Microsoft is developing software together with Symantec (Norton Antivirus) to detect virusses the moment they reach your harddisk. Vista will be able to quarantine certain parts of the harddisk and make sure a virus gets automatically removed (using Norton Antivirus).

Update 9: HARDWARE FOR VISTA
Some hardware will be specially made for Vista. Before Vista will be released in 2006, Microsoft will start the biggest marketing campaign ever, not just for the most advanced piece of software ever developed by more than 80.000 people (not only Microsoft), but also for the hardware that will be developed especially for Vista. As you've read before, there will be special harddrives, but there will also be special videocards that will have to work constantly at 100%, extra fast memory and new dual-core processors to support the new multi-application technology Vista uses. For Vista Hyperthreading is a old technology. Vista will take full advantage of it, but compared to the new technologies of the processors that are being developed it doesn't really help at all. There also will be newer soundcards to support the high sound quality that is possible when Vista is released. All hardware manufacturers are doing their best to get their new hardware finished before Vista is released. Microsoft promised that the prices won't go trough the roof.

Update 10: MULTIPLE INTERNET CONNECTIONS
Vista supports a new technology that has been developed. With this technology you're able to use multiple internet connections (max 4) at the same time. For example: You have an DSL internet connection with a download speed of 100Kb/sec and a cable inter net connection of 80 Kb/sec. And you're downloading a file from a different user who has an upload speed of 140 Kb/sec. When you're using those two internet connections, the DSL connection starts to download 100KB/sec and the left 40 Kb/sec gets downloaded by the cable connection. This means you'll always be downloading at top speed, as long as you can afford multiple internet connections. Because of this you're able to play up to four different games at the same time online with just one internet connection.

Update 11: COPY PROTECTION
Microsoft has teamed up with Disney and a lot of music labels to improve copy protection for movies, music and software using digital rights management functionality in Vista. Microsoft said they will use heavy copy protection schemes, so users won't be able to copy digital media. This may scare of a lot of consumers, but Microsoft doesn't worry about that, because eventually everyone will go Vista (their words). This means no Warez anymore.

Update 12: VISTA AND THE XBOX 360
Microsoft has announced that the Xbox 360 controller will work on Windows Vista too. They did this because they want the game mode of Vista to be an upgraded version of the Xbox 360. The Xbox 360 and Vista both will use a new technology that makes games run at the fastest speed possible. Because Microsoft is the 'leader' of the Xbox and Windows, they made it possible to connect your Xbox to your PC and download special content and updates for your games, without having to subscribe anything. The Xbox 360 uses the new multiple internet connections technology seen in Update 10. Downloading files can take some time, but thats not a problem anymore, because now you can play a game offline or online and download certain files at the same time! This is one of the advantages over the PlayStation 3 and the Nintendo Revolution. The XBox 360 has a lot more advantages, but the reason for all of that is the company thats behind the Xbox, Microsoft, the most powerful software company in the world. They made sure Sony and Nintendo couldn't make use of these new Windows technologies. So if you want compatibility between your console and your PC you'll have to buy a Xbox 360. It looks like Microsoft again has found a way to eliminate the competition.


Update 13: GAME ENGINE, API AND VIDEOCARD ARCHITECTURE
As you've read before, Vista will use its own API to handle 2D and 3D graphics. Microsoft knows that this will cause a lot of compatibility problems and thats why they are talking to the videocard manufacturers. The new videocards ofcourse need to support the new graphics system and the manufacturers have to adjust their videocards' architecture so it will take full advantage of Vista. Because of this the support for OpenGL won't be as good anymore, because all the new videocards will be specialized in WGF graphics. Because of the new WGF technology, game engines need to be adapted to Vista as well. This means, that engines that will be used in the near future, like the Doom 3, Source and Unreal 3 Engine, will have to be fully compatible with WGF and the new videocard architecture."

"Update 14: VISTA AND G70 VIDEOCARDS
The 7800 GTX and all other upcoming G70 videocards support the Vista 3D Desktop Engine. The G70 videocards also are fully optimized for WGF 1.0 and LDDM. Because the G70 cards support LDDM, VISTA will take control of the videocard's BIOS and driver. This means that Vista will automatically be able to change settings for optimal gaming performance. The LDDM feature is a part of WinSat (Update 15). The G70 videocards don't support WGF 2.0, but this technology won't be used in the near future. With a G70 videocard you don't have to worry about using Vista, because you'll only get advantages.

Update 15: OPTIMIZATIONS
As you've read before, Vista will have a game mode which will bring gaming on the PC to new levels. Gaming will be the same as on a gameconsole. No bugs, crashes, slow loading times or stutters anymore. This is possible because Vista will use a lot of new technologies that have been under development for years. WinSat (Windows System Assessment Tool) is one of those technologies. WinSat is a sort of benchmarking tool which analyzes your system's hardware and generates a score for every critical component in your computer. It gives your processor, memory, videocard and harddisk a score and with those scores Vista will find a balance between the different components and will make sure that no piece of hardware is a bottleneck. This means that if your videocard is too fast for the CPU, the left over power of the videocard (which is being bottlenecked) will be used for background services. You can choose between two optimization modes; general office applications and games. Vista has another useful feature which hasn't been named yet. When you boot up your computer this feature will detect if there is a hardware change. If there is a change it will rebuild the hardware configuration. With this feature it will be possible to replace a motherboard without any driver issues."

SJConsultant
07-26-2005, 09:00 PM
A link to where you found this information would be nice. ;)

mjz_5
07-26-2005, 09:10 PM
sounds good, not buying a computer until then :p or is it :(

wpeng
07-26-2005, 11:42 PM
The memory management and everything sound really cool, and it seems programs will run with maximum efficiency because all unneeded processes will be shut off. But what really concerns me are these new hardware requirements. The main thing I don't like about Windows is that it keeps getting more and more bloated with each incarnation.

Big Fat Duck
07-26-2005, 11:43 PM
so this is all basically telling me that when vista comes, ill need to get a new computer

ScretHate
07-26-2005, 11:54 PM
Sounds lame. XP is fine the way it is. Screw gimicks.

S1nF1xx
07-27-2005, 12:38 AM
I'm excited to get my hands on that. If only the name wasn't so lame. Oh well, I'm sure it will grow on me.

kelbear
07-27-2005, 02:12 PM
Er wow...there's an awful lot of talk about integrating Vista into the hardware that's coming out. Of course MS has been talking with hardware manufacturers for awhile now, but I'm just scared that there'll come a point where windows is so locked into everything about a computer that it becomes ridiculously hard for an alternative OS to work on the same machine. I mean, compatibility is fine, but talk of integration makes use of alternatives that much harder.

The Xbox 360 working with the computer is nice, they're leveraging their computer monopoly to entice folks to choose their game console as well. That's a natural way to use it, and convenient as well. I'm just getting nervous is all. So much power centering around MS.

They've got the operating system, they've got the office programs, they're DRMing the content media, and are locking in deeper with hardware. Of course there are advantages in have a centralized baseline for everything to work together from. However when all the power to control that baseline is held in one place I get nervous. I'm scared because there aren't enough checks to balance out the distribution of power to ensure fairness on the user-end. With all that money and momentum, it'll take big steps to ensure the public doesn't get screwed.

There's nothing to panic about for now I guess, but I wonder if this tendency will continue into extremes in the coming years.

Oh, and XP will indeed be fine for years to come. But new versions will come out, and patches and support for XP will eventually cease.

zappa86
07-27-2005, 02:25 PM
How much will it cost? (hopefully the same or less than XP)
Above it mentioned just inserting a game CD and playing without installing. Old games gave you that option, but people wanted to install the game becasue it loads faster off of a harddrive than a cdrom. I hope they did not turn a computer into a configurable Xbox console, I still like my PC as a PC.

Also, it talked about these special harddrives and such. If you get such a component, will it only work with vista, or can it still work with linux or other operating systems. I would hate to buy some hardware can can only work with one OS.

ninethreeeleven
07-27-2005, 02:25 PM
Gaming will be the same as on a gameconsole. No bugs, crashes, slow loading times or stutters anymore.

So basically uninstall BF2 until second half of 2006?

Jasonx82
07-27-2005, 02:57 PM
Damn Looks good if its anything like what they said..But Ohsssssssssss NOeeeeeeeesssssssss no more warezz... :p

Terpfen
07-27-2005, 03:07 PM
Those features sound interesting and all, but Microsoft's UI designers are really starting to irk me. The Aero theme is ugly, period, and Microsoft's answer to the Windows UI's shortcomings is to take what OS X does, and do the complete opposite. (Of course, Windows' basic UI was formed on that mentality, so it's not a surprise, but still.)

Tiger puts its Spotlight button in the upper-right corner (http://images.apple.com/macosx/features/spotlight/images/indexresultssmall20050412.jpg), accessed by pushing a magnifying glass button to open a prompt? Vista puts its desktop search tool in the lower-left corner (http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/presskits/windowsvista/images/image007_low.jpg), accessed by pushing the Start button.

Microsoft, it's obvious you want to rip Tiger off. Just do it! We know you're doing it anyway, and it'll improve the usability of your OS by leaps and bounds! True, you might get sued, but if you survived the anti-trust lawsuit you could survive this.

eeyrjmr
07-27-2005, 04:06 PM
Advantages of Vista above XP:
- run more than 15 graphical applications at the same time instead of 2



I call Bullshit on all this for this simple statement WTF!!!

I have firefox open right now, MS-word, GIMP,WinAMP so where is this so-called limit of 2graphical progs come from? and WTF is with the limit of 15, there shouldn't be a limit

Phoenix86
07-27-2005, 04:27 PM
I call Bullshit on all this for this simple statement WTF!!!

I have firefox open right now, MS-word, GIMP,WinAMP so where is this so-called limit of 2graphical progs come from? and WTF is with the limit of 15, there shouldn't be a limit
What is more logical between these two?

1. MS doesn't know the OS written by them is able to run more than 2 windows at a time.

2. MS isn't calling every window a "graphical" program.

edit: clue: MS-word

Empyrean
07-27-2005, 04:39 PM
.there's an awful lot of talk about integrating Vista into the hardware that's coming out.

'Integration' is a bad thing. Great for the companies, and horrid for the consumer. But who cares about consumers in today's world?

I've use different XP-Embedded systems, and plain old XP-Pro is way better. I like the idea of de-coupling components, not integrating them into one big unmodifiable juggernaut.

zappa86
07-27-2005, 07:09 PM
'Integration' is a bad thing. Great for the companies, and horrid for the consumer. But who cares about consumers in today's world?

I've use different XP-Embedded systems, and plain old XP-Pro is way better. I like the idea of de-coupling components, not integrating them into one big unmodifiable juggernaut.

Totally agree. I dont want to buy a motherboard proc combo that only runs vista. (not now, but its scary, it could happen) I want to be able to install software on MY hardware. If I had to buy one set of hardware of MS operating systems and another set of hardware for other OS I would be pissed off. Remember back in the 90s the war between netscape and IE. Each would make perticular HTML tags that only their own broswer could display, so if people wanted to take full advantage of the internet they would need both. ("designed for internet explorer", or "designed for netscape"). I hate that stuff. Luckly w3 came in and fixed it up. What I love so much about a computer is that I can just change out a video card, or upgrade a sound card. Or buy a totally different keyboard. With integrated systems (such as consoles) your stuck with what they give you. Wheres the fun in that?

versello
07-27-2005, 07:25 PM
What is more logical between these two?

1. MS doesn't know the OS written by them is able to run more than 2 windows at a time.

2. MS isn't calling every window a "graphical" program.

edit: clue: [/b]

PWNED!!!!!!

I myself am looking forward to Vista... I thought the jump from 2000 to XP was great, and I personally like the black UI from screenshots I've seen. Seems more professional and less fisher-price.

SJConsultant
07-27-2005, 08:09 PM
I find it very amusing people are getting worked up over a posting that lacks a link to where the information was found. :p

Ranma_Sao
07-27-2005, 09:23 PM
I find it very amusing people are getting worked up over a posting that lacks a link to where the information was found. :p
I've been sigged! Not sure how I should feel about that. ;)

SJConsultant
07-27-2005, 09:43 PM
I've been sigged! Not sure how I should feel about that. ;)

Privileged of course! :D

David16k
07-28-2005, 08:49 AM
I'm the original writer of that article. I posted it in these forums a month ago.
Old version: http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=920748

The guy who started this thread has gotten the updated version from the Guru3D or NeoWin forums and posted it here.

Latest version:
http://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=347735

The article keeps getting updated on the Guru3D and NeoWin forums by me when there is new information available.

Phoenix86
07-28-2005, 01:34 PM
I'm the original writer of that article.Ahh, very good, then I have a few (ok a bunch ;)) questions if you don't mind.

First off, where did you get the information (gotta fact check)?

The current Windows XP driver model is still supported, but will be frozen going forward.Does this mean Vista will pseudo support XP drivers, similar to 2K-XP, or will there be a hard mark where new drivers are required ala 9X-NT?

run more than 15 graphical applications at the same time instead of 2Can you provide clarifiation on this? What is currently considered in the 2 "graphical applications" and what is the benefit of having up to 15?

every window in Vista will be a 3D surface (when opening My Computer you're actually watching an interactive 3D texture)Will or can?

split your monitor into four pieces and play games at the same time whileCan't this already be done with windowed games?

Vista supports up to 160 open windows at the same timeAnyone guess how much RAM this'll need? ;)

If you want to play a game, Vista will disable every component of your computer that isn't needed by the graphical interface and unloads the Windows Desktop (it's like running a game in MSDOS).How does this integrate with the above "running games + at the same time"? Are there different modes?

Meh, I guess that's enough for now. ^.^

Lazy_Moron
07-28-2005, 10:58 PM
Update 13: GAME ENGINE, API AND VIDEOCARD ARCHITECTURE
As you've read before, Vista will use its own API to handle 2D and 3D graphics. Microsoft knows that this will cause a lot of compatibility problems and thats why they are talking to the videocard manufacturers. The new videocards ofcourse need to support the new graphics system and the manufacturers have to adjust their videocards' architecture so it will take full advantage of Vista. Because of this the support for OpenGL won't be as good anymore, because all the new videocards will be specialized in WGF graphics. Because of the new WGF technology, game engines need to be adapted to Vista as well. This means, that engines that will be used in the near future, like the Doom 3, Source and Unreal 3 Engine, will have to be fully compatible with WGF and the new videocard architecture."


What exactly does this mean. Once this system comes out, the games that are out now, wont be compatible with it? This part is confusing me. Can someone clear this up?

Terpfen
07-29-2005, 12:03 AM
Anyone guess how much RAM this'll need? ;)

Forget about RAM: how would the Windows UI manage 160 windows at the same time anyway? Tiny little taskbar icons? Good luck, Microsoft.

finalgt
07-29-2005, 01:52 AM
Sounds like a whole lot of market speak. And the "speculative extreme requirements" are utter BS. Yes, you're suddenly going to need a 15,000 rpm drive to run the operating system alone...that makes sense...

Archer75
07-29-2005, 09:13 AM
I'm the original writer of that article. I posted it in these forums a month ago.
Old version: http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=920748

The guy who started this thread has gotten the updated version from the Guru3D or NeoWin forums and posted it here.

Latest version:
http://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=347735

The article keeps getting updated on the Guru3D and NeoWin forums by me when there is new information available.

Actually I got it from the IGN message boards.

jonw757
07-29-2005, 09:32 AM
Anyone know how to make the windows transparent in Vista? I saw the screenshots of it but cant figure it out for the life of me

Elmo187
07-29-2005, 12:34 PM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it is enabled automatically as long as your video card/drivers support LDDM.

foreignkid
07-29-2005, 12:48 PM
Anyone know how to make the windows transparent in Vista? I saw the screenshots of it but cant figure it out for the life of me
Was on automagically for me.

EDIT: You prolly want to have the new ATI beta catalyst LDDMs installed, available from ATI"s site: ati.com, clic support/drivers, click page 2, click Vista LDDM thing, download from there.

jonw757
07-29-2005, 12:56 PM
Could it be the video card in the computer is not powerful enough? Sorry should have specified this is on a IBM desktop, 3 ghz, 1GB ram but the onboard video..

David16k
07-29-2005, 01:26 PM
Here you can find the latest version of my article:
http://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=347735

This one is up-to-date.

Obi_Kwiet
07-29-2005, 04:11 PM
I for one will keep calling it Longhorn. The PC enthusiast community should do the same in protestation of the crappy name.

Longhorn > Barny > Vista

Spetsnaz Op
09-17-2005, 02:29 AM
Vista will be the most stable OS ever.

HAHAHAHAHA