Well I finally beat MS

[M1ster_R0gers]

To set this up, I would like to state for the record that I belive microsoft as a business has the most monopolistic and greedy practices and the executive steering comittee should be taken out and shot at dawn. Well mabye not that severe but they should at least get a stern talking to :D

Now thats off my chest I do consider, despite weekly security flaws, windows XP to be one hell of a nice operating system. Stable as hell, predictable, a nice merge of NT and win9x. Does everything I need it to do, and in all honesty after being in the corporate world not a bad deal at 140 dollars for OEM professional.

Now for the meat of my post:

Since I bought windows xp some weeks after its release I have now had this OS for aproximately 3 years. I am constantly building what I consider high end systems. Friends, family, and friends of friends know I am the person to turn to if they want a computer that is going to last a few years. These people are the ones that pay for my upgrades. I consider a system stable if it sits overcloked for me for over 2 months after prime, folding, gaming.... etc. If I dont realize that I am running a 20-30 percent overclock because of no instablility issues I consider that certified and warrantied by myself. I have never had a system fail on a customer because of it, and they all know that. So for the past 3 years I have been migrating my install across at least 20 major platform changes, and have had to reactivate windows because of that. Also, in my tinkering I have wiped the system to the point where I would have to reinstall windows over windows, never a problem either.

The one sticking point to all of this was explaining to whoever it would be (formerly people in the US but now india) upon reactivating windows that I am a hardware enthusiast etc.. etc.. and I am constantly swapping platforms. I have talked to MS support over 20 times reactivating this software and in the beginninig I would put up my bitch about me purchasing the product and its their own damn fault that I am talking to them because of the 4 configuration changes allowed before having to speak to someone in person etc. Probably the last 10 conversations were boiled down to 2 sentances explaining what I do and the call center types understand enough not to ask more questions. Usually when the question comes up "how many times have you activated this product" and I reply "over 20" it stops.

The last time I called in, I was told that the product could not be reactivated because it has been activated too many times. Naturally I freaked on the person, explaining that I completely understand that it is not their fault and I am not directing aggression to them but that this is not an acceptable answer. I was directed over to management, then the analyists. When the analyist came on, I explained what I do and he told me to get a pad and pen. He then gave me a new software key to use.

SO how many of you guys have a completely legitamate software liscence on a post it note stuck inside your pc? :D

The main reason I decided to post this is because I know there are a few redmond guys that are active members. Is there any way possible one of you can find a way to send up a reccomendation for those of us who are legal to have a permanant OS key so we dont have to go through the 15 minutes of aggrivation every time we hose our OS or change platforms? As silly as it sounds I know I have spent hours on the phone with MS support for reactivation, I have been treated like a criminal, and to be perfectly honest I dont belive I deserve that. If I wanted to forego all of this I could easily install in one of the many hacked versions out there but really like staying legit. Why make it hard on the paying special needs customers?

[Tiny]

I agree that it is a pain (especially now that I have to talk to people that have such heavy accents I can't understand half the things they read off of their scripts) to have to reactivate. I have had to reactivate by just swapping a floppy drive! Go figure on that one.

The perma-key idea would be nice, but that would leave it open for anyone to get one...just by calling up a lot and complaining....then they could install it anywhere they wanted. I think that is why MS got rid of the perma-key and went with activation.

To be honest....I really don't mind it. I mean I do more now that I have to call India it seems, but over all, it is not a problem.

But I can feel you on the frustration of having to reactivate. But I don't agree that MS is a monopoly. If anything...Apple is a monopoly.

[Ver1tas]

You are right, but if they gave you a perma-key then you could distribute that key since it wouldn't have to check for hardware changes or anything. But it's not a problem for me since i run win2k :p .

Tiny, as for apple, you may be right i suppose about them being a monopoly. But the only thing is you really have to choose to take part in their monoply, since they aren't as mainstream as windows(x86) is.

[Tiny]

You are right, but if they gave you a perma-key then you could distribute that key since it wouldn't have to check for hardware changes or anything. But it's not a problem for me since i run win2k :p .

Tiny, as for apple, you may be right i suppose about them being a monopoly. But the only thing is you really have to choose to take part in their monoply, since they aren't as mainstream as windows(x86) is.

Good point, the same goes for MS too I suppose. But with a lot of k-12 schools going apple for the students, the choice is taken away of sorts.

I don't want to start any MS v. Apple thing though. I guess I find the MS acitivaiton thing a justifiable annoyence. :shrug:

[Huan]

It does get old having to call them to reactivate the damn software.. Specially trying to interpet some of the thick accents.... I know some will say they understand them perfectly and that we are over reacting etc blah blah monkey pooh. Hate it for ya that you can't see on the other side of the fence, but some of us just can't understand them folks...

They should actually put some throught into the whole thing and come up with a better plan to prevent stealing of the software... Next thing you know, we are gonna have India's children teleporting into our homes to verify the legit copy's....

[Ver1tas]

Well, imo i think the k-12 apple thing is because they want it to be simple for the kids to use.

i can't really start an ms vs apple thing with you since i have a powerbook and a desktop. :D

and in all honestly to go back to the beginning of your post, i'm glad that in middle school i got to use apples since it gives you a chance to use them and experience another option in computers.

[Vapor1000]

wow, this thread basicly covers my 2nd (or possibly 3rd, but still way up there) main reason i AM NOT running Windows XP... i have spent over $1000 on software this past year and over $300 of that was the Windows OS.... WINDOWS 2000 OS!... i personally have "tryed" XP and have got F'ed in the A twice by a few of its less common bugs... and then there is the whole Activation thing that you are refering to... the only advantage i see to windows XP is it boots about 3 times faster, other than that my Windows 2000 runs 100-108% as good as windows XP at any given time... (and i even run a p4 hyperthreading machine)

[Ballz2TheWallz]

To set this up, I would like to state for the record that I belive microsoft as a business has the most monopolistic and greedy practices and the executive steering comittee should be taken out and shot at dawn. Well mabye not that severe but they should at least get a stern talking to :D

Now thats off my chest I do consider, despite weekly security flaws, windows XP to be one hell of a nice operating system. Stable as hell, predictable, a nice merge of NT and win9x. Does everything I need it to do, and in all honesty after being in the corporate world not a bad deal at 140 dollars for OEM professional.

Now for the meat of my post:

Since I bought windows xp some weeks after its release I have now had this OS for aproximately 3 years. I am constantly building what I consider high end systems. Friends, family, and friends of friends know I am the person to turn to if they want a computer that is going to last a few years. These people are the ones that pay for my upgrades. I consider a system stable if it sits overcloked for me for over 2 months after prime, folding, gaming.... etc. If I dont realize that I am running a 20-30 percent overclock because of no instablility issues I consider that certified and warrantied by myself. I have never had a system fail on a customer because of it, and they all know that. So for the past 3 years I have been migrating my install across at least 20 major platform changes, and have had to reactivate windows because of that. Also, in my tinkering I have wiped the system to the point where I would have to reinstall windows over windows, never a problem either.

The one sticking point to all of this was explaining to whoever it would be (formerly people in the US but now india) upon reactivating windows that I am a hardware enthusiast etc.. etc.. and I am constantly swapping platforms. I have talked to MS support over 20 times reactivating this software and in the beginninig I would put up my bitch about me purchasing the product and its their own damn fault that I am talking to them because of the 4 configuration changes allowed before having to speak to someone in person etc. Probably the last 10 conversations were boiled down to 2 sentances explaining what I do and the call center types understand enough not to ask more questions. Usually when the question comes up "how many times have you activated this product" and I reply "over 20" it stops.

The last time I called in, I was told that the product could not be reactivated because it has been activated too many times. Naturally I freaked on the person, explaining that I completely understand that it is not their fault and I am not directing aggression to them but that this is not an acceptable answer. I was directed over to management, then the analyists. When the analyist came on, I explained what I do and he told me to get a pad and pen. He then gave me a new software key to use.

SO how many of you guys have a completely legitamate software liscence on a post it note stuck inside your pc? :D

The main reason I decided to post this is because I know there are a few redmond guys that are active members. Is there any way possible one of you can find a way to send up a reccomendation for those of us who are legal to have a permanant OS key so we dont have to go through the 15 minutes of aggrivation every time we hose our OS or change platforms? As silly as it sounds I know I have spent hours on the phone with MS support for reactivation, I have been treated like a criminal, and to be perfectly honest I dont belive I deserve that. If I wanted to forego all of this I could easily install in one of the many hacked versions out there but really like staying legit. Why make it hard on the paying special needs customers?

so this key will never have to go through the whole re-activation call up bitch ass annoying cycle.....i want one

[SJConsultant]

so this key will never have to go through the whole re-activation call up bitch ass annoying cycle.....i want one

There is no such thing. Presently the only way you can avoid activation is to purchase a Volume Licensed copy of XP. M1ster_R0gers didn't "beat" MS, he simply complained enough until they gave him a reactivation code.

The solution is simple enough, purchase a VL and not be bothered with activation on one's own machines.

[Mauli]

When i bought my last complete set of a computer, i had a winxp OS with it, and everytime i install that i do not have to bother with installing it, and frankly that i like. i dont know how that works, but i just does...

anyways, i heard somebody sayint that microsoft isnt a monoply, yes it is. Simple Economics and using a tiny bit of Linux has tought me that.

Now apple, they are a monoply too, yes, but they cant do anything out of it... Microsift is worse, they have experienced economies of scale, Apple i dont think will ever get there..

[Tiny]

It is not a monopoly if you have other choices...and you do....everyone does. Linux, Apple, and I am sure there are others out there. Is it Microsoft's fault for putting themselves in a position that they are what most people are comfortable with using and know? No.

/done with thread. :shurgs:

[M1ster_R0gers]

It is not a monopoly if you have other choices...and you do....everyone does. Linux, Apple, and I am sure there are others out there. Is it Microsoft's fault for putting themselves in a position that they are what most people are comfortable with using and know? No.

/done with thread. :shurgs:

I suggest you research before opinionating yourself too quickly
here you go (http://usvms.gpo.gov/ms-conclusions.html) so you dont have to look too hard.

as far as a volume liscence purchase I am an end consumer with a completely seperate job so I am not interested in paying for multiple liscences. The other machines in the house are currently running OS X, solaris 9, and about 3 versions of linux.

and this new key is the same as the old one, yes I will need to reactivate it but as silly as it sounds an "official" key recorded on a scrap of paper goes completely against their system builder agreement (http://www.sved.hu/new/sw/SBAgreement2002Eng.doc)

9. PLACEMENT OF CERTIFICATE OF AUTHENTICITY (COA) LABEL
If the Software Unit includes a Microsoft desktop operating system program, the System Builder who supplies the Software Unit with the fully assembled computer system must remove the COA label backing and adhere the COA label to the exterior of the fully assembled computer system case in an easily accessible location.

so yes in a way I 'beat" microsoft. is it small and silly? yes. Thought I would share is all and ask if something can be done for the likes of us.

[Tiny]

I suggest you research before opinionating yourself too quickly
here you go (http://usvms.gpo.gov/ms-conclusions.html) so you dont have to look too hard.


Thanks, I appreciate the condescending attitude also. :rolleyes:

I read that when it was first released to the public. I just don't agree with it. In my eyes they are not a monopoly. Simple as that. No reason to get in a fuss about it.

[Huan]

There is no such thing. Presently the only way you can avoid activation is to purchase a Volume Licensed copy of XP. M1ster_R0gers didn't "beat" MS, he simply complained enough until they gave him a reactivation code.

The solution is simple enough, purchase a VL and not be bothered with activation on one's own machines.

You sound as if this is a cheap thing to do. To pay more $$ just to have their OS on your machine without hassle is just total Bull.. Prior to any well, you get what you pay for. Noone buys a box that says, must be reactivated everytime you try to stimulate the economy with a computer upgrade written on the box.


I'm waiting on the yearly fees to come next... Ya know.. So they can keep giving you the amazing L337 updates they have for your machine.

[shade91]

I won't post the COA on the outside of the machine. I won't post it on the machine at all. I have all COA's documented for all systems in my company. Before I worked here 2 machines had the COA's attached to them. One day out of nowhere I noticed one of the users of one of the COA-attached workstations had burned themselves an XP CD and written the COA that was attached to the company PC onto the CD label. As it turns out they were trying to use or used company property to activate their pirated copy of XP. I promptly removed the COA's after that. You can activate XP several times on the same CD key as long as you spread out the activation by about 4-5 months. I know this as I've tried it before by reusing CD keys on different machines.

If I call Microsoft for a new license key due to activating a certain key too many times I use the same excuse all the time - "my hard drive crashed on me and required a re-install". No questions asked.. I've done this on 1 CD key about 4 or 5 times.

[EmbraceThePenguin]

I actually got the raw treatment too from MS one time. I finally said fine, not to worry about it, that I would simply reinstall Windows when the 30 days was up... Besids, I got fed up with this along time ago and use Linux 99% of the time now. Only use XP to play the occasional HL2 or some other game that hasnt been ported to Linux, yet; however, I can now play HL2/CS:S on Cedega now, so why have XP at all... Hmmm... I could use the space :D.

Joe

[SJConsultant]

You sound as if this is a cheap thing to do. To pay more $$ just to have their OS on your machine without hassle is just total Bull.. Prior to any well, you get what you pay for. Noone buys a box that says, must be reactivated everytime you try to stimulate the economy with a computer upgrade written on the box..

The costs for VL licensed copies of XP are on par with purchasing a retail boxed XP. Is it expensive if you don't have 5 machines (5 being the minimum required for VL licensing), sure. I don't know about you, but time is money for me, I'd rather pay the extra and save the time of reactivating after changing a few parts on my own machines.

What cannot be calculated though, is the savings of frustration, annoyance, etc. ;)

In the end, it's up to the individual to determine whats cost effective or not.

[M1ster_R0gers]

The costs for VL licensed copies of XP are on par with purchasing a retail boxed XP. Is it expensive if you don't have 5 machines (5 being the minimum required for VL licensing), sure. I don't know about you, but time is money for me, I'd rather pay the extra and save the time of reactivating after changing a few parts on my own machines.

What cannot be calculated though, is the savings of frustration, annoyance, etc. ;)

In the end, it's up to the individual to determine whats cost effective or not.

auctually when you say it that way a thousand dollars becomes acceptable. How much is Volume liscensing? 600 dollars?

[SJConsultant]

auctually when you say it that way a thousand dollars becomes acceptable. How much is Volume liscensing? 600 dollars?

VL licensing begins with purchasing a minimum of 5 licenses, CDW (http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=330231) has them priced at $179 per license. So the total would be around $900. You'll also need to purchase the VL media (CD) for an additional $25.

[Phoenix86]

I'll just add that most of us here can easily consume 5 licenses between our personal machines and friends/family. Something to think about...

[OldPueblo]

Or you can always go MSDN and just use your machines for "testing stuff." :p

http://msdn.microsoft.com/howtobuy/subscribers/

More specifically http://msdn.microsoft.com/howtobuy/subscribers/msdnos/

"Highlights of your MSDN Operating Systems subscription software include:
Latest Microsoft operating systems, including the latest versions of:

The Windows Server 2003 product family that builds on the strengths of Windows 2000 Server products to deliver a superior and cost-effective server operating system with increased reliability, availability, scalability, and security
Windows 2000 Advanced Server for line-of-business and Internet-based backend use
Windows 2000 Server for file and print, Web server, and group mail
Windows 2000 Professional and Windows XP Professional for business desktops and laptops
Windows XP Home Edition and Windows XP Media Center for home and digital entertainment usage
Usage rights are limited to development and testing only."

[Nasty_Savage]

^^ above idea would be cool if they included Betas. And the price is still a bit retarded for a one stop pony like an end user.

[Fryguy8]

permakeys are already around and available on the internet. I'm talking about ones that properly work too (install service pack 2, etc).

No matter what microsoft does, people who want to steal their products will still steal their products. And your situation is a prime example of why measures taken to stop people only hurt honest people.

I'm sure there are people writing cracks/obtaining volume keys that know more about programming than the people who WROTE the authentication code do, so it's almost moot to stop experts from cracking the software authentication scheme. This whole time, the experts have the system cracked, and yet you, as an honest person, have to go through hell to install what you paid for. All the while people are using cracks and using the software FOR FREE with less hassle than you WHO PAID FOR IT.

hrmm, that's a bit of a babble, but... ::presses submit anyway::

[SJConsultant]

permakeys are already around and available on the internet. I'm talking about ones that properly work too (install service pack 2, etc).

Keys by themselves to do not dictate whether the OS needs to activate, there must be certain changes made to some key files on the CD as well.

[jamesrb]

I actually have 3 legit Post-it note keys. My school offers free MSDNAA membership to Computer/Inormation Science majors, and you download an ISO of the OS and they email you a retail key. I found it kind of ironic too having a legit OS key on a post-it with no proof that it is legit, but hey this is Microsoft we are talking about.

[SJConsultant]

I actually have 3 legit Post-it note keys. My school offers free MSDNAA membership to Computer/Inormation Science majors, and you download an ISO of the OS and they email you a retail key. I found it kind of ironic too having a legit OS key on a post-it with no proof that it is legit, but hey this is Microsoft we are talking about.

MSDNAA are essentially the same as volume licensed with the exception of the accompanying paper license and provided media, so yeah, you have VL keys, but the media (in your case ISO) is not identical to Retail, OEM, or upgrade versions that require activation.

Maybe I am not making myself clear in that there is no such thing as a keycode that can be used to "bypass" or "prevent" activation on retail,oem, or upgrade versions of the OS.

[jamesrb]

i know, the only way around activation is a VLK, i dont think anybody is saying other wise..

and MSDNAA (Academic Alliance) uses retail keys for the record, it is not the same as MSDN...

[iddqd]

What reactivation? I use a haxored version :D.