Enermax headin' out....big time.....

[cornelious0_0]

Well well well, it's almost time. ;)

This is a bit of a long story, but basically....I've got my 2.8C on watercooling right now and the XT-PE running on the stock cooler....but the 12v line on my PSU has been dipping too low to allow any overclocking on both components at once. The CPU is capable of 3.78GHz with a TNT2 installed, but only 3.73GHz with the XT-PE. Likewise....with the 2.8C running at stock, the XT-PE can clock up to 630/620 right now, but with the CPU at 3.73GHz I have to lower the clocks to 560/620.

It looks like over the past couple days I've started to negatively effect the PSU's 12v line by running at those moderately overclocked speeds while the 12v line was at about 11.7v already. Here's how it looks right now:

http://1stclasspcs.com/uploaded/12v_worse.JPG

Nothing short of pathetic here.....and I'm gonna be MORE then happy to get my 470W OCZ Powerstream ordered on Friday......as I'll finally be able to have both my overclocks maxed out simultaneously....and the Enermax will finally be out of my rig.

But you guessed it, the fun doesn't stop there.....what to do with the Enermax?

Well, with the 12v line running at 11.55v I wouldnt even think of selling this POS to anyone....so there's nothing left to do but arrange a little run-in between the Enermax and my trusty sledge. :D

I'll be sure to have a few pics posted up after the meeting, maybe some before and after shots of the Enermax and the sledge. ;)

It'll sure be one hell of a load of my shoulders knowing that the poor thing is finally put to rest, and it'll be good for a good laugh or two I guess. :p

[Major_A]

I would take out the fans in the power supply before I smashed it. You want to see a real failing PSU check this out.
http://fpscentral.ampednews.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4382

[xonik]

Whatever...

A little program isn't going to give you an accurate voltage reading. You should break out the voltmeter or multimeter if you really want to know if the power supply's the culprit. After all, the Radeon X800XT PE draws less than 1 amp at idle, just over 3 amps at load from the 12 volt rail.

Don't blame your power supply until you have isolated the thousands of other factors causing your overclock to not meet expectations.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/misc/picture/?src=/images/video/ati-powercons/t1.gif&1=1

[cornelious0_0]

Whatever...

A little program isn't going to give you an accurate voltage reading. You should break out the voltmeter or multimeter if you really want to know if the power supply's the culprit. After all, the Radeon X800XT PE draws less than 1 amp at idle, just over 3 amps at load from the 12 volt rail.

Don't blame your power supply until you have isolated the thousands of other factors causing your overclock to not meet expectations.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/misc/picture/?src=/images/video/ati-powercons/t1.gif&1=1

Whatever guy, say what you want.....I know what's going on with my own computer...please do not try and lecture me on how these things work...I know full well how these things work. I have tried installing a TNT2 and as a result my CPU overclock went from 3.73GHz up to 3.78GHz in all my benchmarks. When I have the XT-PE installed and the 2.8C running at stock I can voltmod the XT-PE (it was running at 1.65v, not stock) and clock it up to 630/620.....but when I have the 2.8C overclocked to 3.73GHz and I try and apply that overclock of 630/620 the system instantly locks up. If you have any other solution then please let me know....but an 11.7v 12v line is NOT something that you want if you're trying to do overclocking like this.

I don't want to sound ignorant (because I'm not) but knowing what I do about computers (not to boast) there isn't really anything that comes to mind that COULD be causing these same symptoms.

I'll let you guys all know how the OCZ does at the end of the week....and I can't wait to see the new benchmark numbers.

[_Korruption_]

I'd only trust software for relative readings. I still trust my multimeter, as MBM5 tells me my +12V is at 11.3V. My multimeter says 12.01V.

[ignitionxvi]

I'd only trust software for relative readings. I still trust my multimeter, as MBM5 tells me my +12V is at 11.3V. My multimeter says 12.01V.
agreed.

edit: and don't destroy it, i'll pay you shipping to send it to me.

[cornelious0_0]

I'd only trust software for relative readings. I still trust my multimeter, as MBM5 tells me my +12V is at 11.3V. My multimeter says 12.01V.

I'm not saying it's accurate....but it is directly related to the symptoms I'm seeing and the issues I'm having with my system. I wouldn't be surprised if my 12v usually IS technically perfect when its reporting 11.8v in MBM, but when it was dipping down to 11.6v or so it woudl have still been low...and I'd rather have things .2v above 12v and not below....as even 11.7 or 11.8v can cause serious issues with higher end overclocking.

Again, I'm not trusting my software readings to be accurate, but the fact that they're reading this ridiculously low and I'm seeing all these power related issues pop up at the same time is too much of a coincidence for it to be anything else. Especially when I already have tried different combinations of hardware and overclocks to test what I think is happening. The powersupply almost always SHOULD be one of the first things that should be checked in depth if someone is having stability issues, and it's sad that so many people think you're sposed to try and narrow things down before you even consider your PSU.

I know what I'm doing is right, and if all I'm going to get is a lot of ppl saying its something else, or I'm foolish for doing/saying this then I'll just go ahead and get the thread locked...because I thought that some of my peers around here would know better.

[xonik]

You're going to have us silenced because of dissenting opinions, and legitimate ones at that? Just what was the point of this thread?

[cornelious0_0]

You're going to have us silenced because of dissenting opinions, and legitimate ones at that? Just what was the point of this thread?

I guess I'll just ahve to silencer you myself with the results then.....

[BlindedByScience]

I'd only trust software for relative readings. I still trust my multimeter, as MBM5 tells me my +12V is at 11.3V. My multimeter says 12.01V.
QFT.....My Antec reads 11.37 with MBM5 but my Fluke77 (meter) reads that rail at 12.1.....

Keep in mind that the PCI spec for voltage accuracy is +/- 5%. Every manufacturer (that I know of) tests their hardware to +/- 10% Even if you readings are accurate, which I doubt, you're still "in spec" and my guess is that smashing the supply would be a pretty big waste of hardware.....:cool:

Regards - B.B.S.

[motithejrt]

Murderer!!

[cornelious0_0]

QFT.....My Antec reads 11.37 with MBM5 but my Fluke77 (meter) reads that rail at 12.1.....

Keep in mind that the PCI spec for voltage accuracy is +/- 5%. Every manufacturer (that I know of) tests their hardware to +/- 10% Even if you readings are accurate, which I doubt, you're still "in spec" and my guess is that smashing the supply would be a pretty big waste of hardware.....:cool:

Regards - B.B.S.

I fully realise that it may still be operating within spec, and I may not smash it....but the fact remains that the PSU is still holding back and butchering my overclocks. Until someone comes forward with a logical explanation as to what else it could be I'm still going to be ordering the OCZ on friday....as this is getting freaking annoying not being able to hold my own overclocks.

[djnes]

Here's an idea....maybe the PSU just isn't powerful enough? You never clearly explain anything, but it seems like when you try to squeeze more power out of the system.

Now, I don't mean to turn this into a flame, but it is EXTREMELY ignorant to argue with people who are offering good troubleshooting advice, as well as trying to stop you from spending money you might not have to. And don't even get me started on how pathetic it is people still wish to support OCZ.

My advice is to do some actual troubleshooting, instead of immeditately giving up and buying an overpriced part from the criminal society known as OCZ.

[motithejrt]

Here's an idea....maybe the PSU just isn't powerful enough? You never clearly explain anything, but it seems like when you try to squeeze more power out of the system.

Now, I don't mean to turn this into a flame, but it is EXTREMELY ignorant to argue with people who are offering good troubleshooting advice, as well as trying to stop you from spending money you might not have to. And don't even get me started on how pathetic it is people still wish to support OCZ.

My advice is to do some actual troubleshooting, instead of immeditately giving up and buying an overpriced part from the criminal society known as OCZ.
Yeah, what he said.

[cornelious0_0]

Here's an idea....maybe the PSU just isn't powerful enough? You never clearly explain anything, but it seems like when you try to squeeze more power out of the system.

Now, I don't mean to turn this into a flame, but it is EXTREMELY ignorant to argue with people who are offering good troubleshooting advice, as well as trying to stop you from spending money you might not have to. And don't even get me started on how pathetic it is people still wish to support OCZ.

My advice is to do some actual troubleshooting, instead of immeditately giving up and buying an overpriced part from the criminal society known as OCZ.

For starters, I dont' feel comfortable going along with something somebody says when they're clearly overly biased for or against a company in question. I really dont' appreciate the way you're talking to me here, saying I haven't done any troubleshooting with my own machine or dont explain anything. If you want to hand over a little constructive criticism then please at least show me a little respect.

I have done a fair amount of trial and error and trouble shooting wiht the machine already, and you basically just discredited yourself by coming across the way you did.

Sry bro, but it has nothing to do with the size of the PSU itself, the 470W is fine....if it wasn't then I'm sure you'd see a LOT more 500W+ psu's powering some of the extreme systems out there. You're telling me that a 470 isn't enough to power my 3.78GHz P4 setup but a 520W is enough to run a 6.3GHz 775 setup or a 3.7GHz A64???

I am open to actual advise and suggestions, but only if they're going to at least give me the time of day and not talk down to me in the sense that I'm jumping the gun and don't know what I'm doing with the probelm at hand.

[djnes]

I am open to actual advise and suggestions, but only if they're going to at least give me the time of day and not talk down to me in the sense that I'm jumping the gun and don't know what I'm doing with the probelm at hand.

First off, your language isn't very clear. Second, I did not see at all where you mentioned the wattage of your current PSU. I did offer you the suggestion that it happens when you ramp up power draw. Second, several people suggested a multimeter, but I don't see where you've tried that.

Lastly, don't you even go down the road of calling me biased about OCZ. Bias has nothing to do with it. Let's talk facts. Research their past, and see why most consumers with a backbone will not support a company who's continued a long history of lying, cheating and other general criminal activity. Don't ASSume anything about my comments about OCZ until you read about their long nefarious past (and present).

[draksia]

[QUOTE=djnes]Here's an idea....maybe the PSU just isn't powerful enough? You never clearly explain anything, but it seems like when you try to squeeze more power out of the system.
[QUOTE]


This is my guess also.

cornelious0_0 never did say model the enermax is.

A rough estimate you need 25 amps on the 12v line probably even more to get a good overclock. If you have an older enermax it probably isn't any where close to that much. You are placing huge depends on the 12v and that is what is causing the problems. I took a look at OCZ specs but they nolong have the 470 listed so I based on the halfway between the 420 and 520. It should work very well but you really shouldn't blame the enermax for your problems. You need to make sure the powersupply can provide adaquate power for your system config.

[cornelious0_0]

Well the Enermax is a 465W and puts out 33A on the 12v rail....nothing really sub-par.

I'm completely free and able to support any company I wish....I buy different brands of parts because of MY positive history with them, and because they're usually of the best around. I'm fully aware of OCZ's past, pleae do not treat me like I haven't looked into or ever heard of any of the history here. The fact is, I'm not ignorant of what has happened, but really...I'm still free to buy what I want and support WHO I want, and there's no reason why you should have a problem with that.

but you really shouldn't blame the enermax for your problems. You need to make sure the powersupply can provide adaquate power for your system config.

Again, I'm fully aware of how to choose a powersupply for my own machine, and I did when I bought this thing. I know you don't mean anything by it, but there isn't anything that anyone has said that I wasn't already aware of, and I dont really need to be told to go troubleshoot the system when i already have a fair bit....enough to make up my own mind about the fact that I want the OCZ......even if the Enermax was fine and I bought the OCZ I'd still be happy cus of a few other features/things about it, and things other then the sagging 12v rail that have been irritating me about this thing.

EDIT: The powersupply IS actually running that low on the 12v line.....it has been hovering around 11.55v on the desktop, and it's still reading about 11.7v when I crack 'er open. I realise that it might still be within spec....but anything short of 12v CAN bring down an overclock, or at least has the ability too, as I've seen countless times over at XS.

I'm off for awhile, getting cash from someone that's gonna be paying for the Powerstream, if you've got a problem with me buying OCZ (which you shouldnt) then please just go somewhere else, cus I'm not changing my mind on the PSU selection.

[djnes]

Gotta love people who get an attitude while asking for help. If you knew so much and didn't need any of our suggestions, why create a thread in the first place?? Anyway, good luck with the PSU, hope it helps...honestly.

As for having a problem with OCZ, yes, you are free to support them. I personally, feel I am the member of an elite DYI'er, know as the [H]orde. We're all in the same boat here, and when a company so blatantly cheats so many of my [H]ard Brethren, I wouldn't dream of supporting that company. Do what you want, it's a free country.

But I wouldn't be friends with a guy who smacked my fiancee, so I wouldn't support a company who stole from my [H]orde Associates.

[motithejrt]

I need to ask for some help to, so I'm going to start a new thread. But I swear, don't any of you assholes help me!! http://hardforum.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[cornelious0_0]

Alright, now you guys are just being downright rude.....

I didn't create the thread with an attitude, I honestly created it to hear what ppl had to say or moreso as a joke cus i was finally going to be rid of this troublesome powersupply, I guess it jsut wasnte meant to be.

I need to ask for some help to, so I'm going to start a new thread. But I swear, don't any of you assholes help me!!

Alright, this thread might not have turned out as it should have in the first place...but what are you trying to accomplish by rubbing $hit like that in my face? Going out of your way to rub something like that in for no reason whatsoever makes you no better then anyone or anything else that has already been said here, so congrats on that. :rolleyes:

[djnes]

I didn't create the thread with an attitude, I honestly created it to hear what ppl had to say or moreso as a joke cus i was finally going to be rid of this troublesome powersupply, I guess it jsut wasnte meant to be.

Well, hopefully you learned to be respectful of people trying to help you, and to post information that's needed, like the model and wattage of the original PSU in question at the time. You also have an offer by someone to buy the Enermax, so all in all, you learned something new, and sold off an old part. Not so bad.

[motithejrt]

BTW, I didn't start a thread, I did it, in your words, as a "joke"

You know what you need? Some nice herbal aroma therapy... or an enema, either one would work.

[cornelious0_0]

BTW, I didn't start a thread, I did it, in your words, as a "joke"

You know what you need? Some nice herbal aroma therapy... or an enema, either one would work.

Haha, very funny. :rolleyes:

so all in all, you learned something new

Yeah, not to start threads when I'm half conscience in the first place and expect anything to make sense. :o

[motithejrt]

I made a new sig just for you!

[computerpro3]

Everyone in the thread, it IS the psu. That's EXACTLY what happened to me when my antec 430 decided to give up powering my 4ghz system with 1.8v going to the chip, 3.8V going to the memory and 1.85v going to the graphics card.

Corn, your psu isn't dying, but it just isn't powerful enough. I would reccomend an OCZ 520 watter at least if you're hell bent on OCZ. However, I would seriously look into this psu:

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-103-708&depa=0

It will much outperform the OCZ (whom is made by Toppower I believe, which is no where close to as bad as powmax but isn't in the same league as pcp&c/Zippy/Fortron Source's higher models), and is much more reliable. If you want total overkill, go for the Zippy/Emacs 550w version. Pssssst...these psu's are almost identical to pcp&c 510 's...and they should be, because this is the compnay that makes the pcp&c's ;)

So to everyone in the thread that doubts him, it definetley IS his psu, and Cornelious, I would HIGHLY reccomend the Zippy/Emacs 500w psu or 550w psu (with dual 12v rails) for your config.


edit: and if you want to be rediculous:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-103-714&depa=0

45amps on 12v line 700w psu :eek:

[cornelious0_0]

Everyone in the thread, it IS the psu. That's EXACTLY what happened to me when my antec 430 decided to give up powering my 4ghz system with 1.8v going to the chip, 3.8V going to the memory and 1.85v going to the graphics card.

Corn, your psu isn't dying, but it just isn't powerful enough. I would reccomend an OCZ 520 watter at least if you're hell bent on OCZ. However, I would seriously look into this psu:

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-103-708&depa=0

It will much outperform the OCZ (whom is made by Toppower I believe, which is no where close to as bad as powmax but isn't in the same league as pcp&c/Zippy/Fortron Source's higher models), and is much more reliable. If you want total overkill, go for the Zippy/Emacs 550w version. Pssssst...these psu's are almost identical to pcp&c 510 's...and they should be, because this is the compnay that makes the pcp&c's ;)

So to everyone in the thread that doubts him, it definetley IS his psu, and Cornelious, I would HIGHLY reccomend the Zippy/Emacs 500w psu or 550w psu (with dual 12v rails) for your config.


edit: and if you want to be rediculous:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-103-714&depa=0

45amps on 12v line 700w psu :eek:

Well at least SOMEone believes me....thx bro.

I suppose dropping down the extra $20 for the 520W OCZ would be alright, I had just seen that the shipping time on teh 520W for me was gonna be an extra 5 days or so due to availability, and only 1-2 days total on the 470W.

This is the kind of advice and such I was looking for in the first place, bro...do you know anywhere I might be able to get ahold of the Zippy in Canada? or would you possibly be able to set something up with me to arrange shipping?

I was still kinda set on the OCZ because of the availability in canada and the adjustable rails....but the Antec NeoPower also has dual 12v rails and puts out actually more Amps on the 12v then the OCZ does I'm pretty sure, what's your take on IT?

[Ice Czar]

Got your PM


am open to actual advise and suggestions

OK, for starters Im going to leave this open
as to why this thread started going south, Id personally say you made some assumptions
failed to supply some info, bad mouthed a widely regarded good brand and pimped a brand with some serious history, then while not alone, you certainly reciprocated with attitude

lets start with some of the valid points raised
1. software monitoring is relative not definative
2. http://www.xbitlabs.com/misc/picture/?src=/images/video/ati-powercons/t1.gif&1=1
3. maybe the PSU just isn't powerful enough
4. a long history of lying, cheating and other general criminal activity
5. Gotta love people who get an attitude while asking for help
6. the OCZ (whom is made by Topower

and my 2 cents
I do beleive your power supply is limiting your overclock
so your reasoning isnt flawed even if some of your assumptions may be
PSUs are all about the worse case senerio, you could be a little too close to the capacity of a rail (+12V) for the operating temperature, and source power you have,
more amps might push the overclock a bit higher, but what Id really recommend is a supply with both more amps, and cleaner, more stable voltage regulation, and a UPS

for starters the role the source power plays in voltage regulation
A Technical PS: Output Voltage Regulation and AC Voltage (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article166-page2.html) by Mike Chin @ silentpcreview

Voltage regulation with most PSUs examined by SPCR has been virtually unnecessary. Perhaps because only reputable brand samples are submitted for our stringent testing, almost every PSU has passed voltage regulation checks easily, often with flying colors. The Seasonic Super series were among the best in this regard, and the new Rev.03 models are no different, with tolerance better than +/-2% in every case.

A test instrument mentioned in the article SPCR's Revised PSU Testing System was used briefly with the new Rev. 03 samples. The California Instruments 801RP Variable AC Power Supply (CI-801RP) allows AC voltage to be varied in order to consider the effects of brownouts and other real-world conditions on PSU performance.

As the voltage is reduced, the PSU has to draw more current (Amps) in order to maintain the output voltages. The actual power drawn by the PSU rises when the input voltage is reduced. This is why, for example, that a power supply rated for 120VAC, 5A might be rated for 240VAC, 3A. Maintaining steady output voltage lines becomes much harder with lower or varying AC voltage. This is how PSU voltage regulation can be really tested.

The PSU was placed in the thermal test rig, with 120VAC power delivered by the CI-801RP. Each PSU was warmed up for a few minutes at 120W, then set to deliver full power. Internal test box temps were ~37°C. AC measurements were made with the Kill-a-Watt AC power meter. Voltmeters were used to continuously monitor the 12V, 5V and 3.3V output lines. The VAC was then reduced from the standard 120VAC down to 80VAC. This is a very demanding test, as the Seasonic PSUs are rated for full power output with 100-240VAC.

>CHART

Note that the output voltage remains constant through these dramatic drops in AC input voltage — and the associated increases in the current and power drawn by the PSU.

The same test was conducted at 300W output on two other SPCR-reviewed PSUs that will remain unnamed at this time: One rated at 350W sparked and shut down within 15 seconds of running at 90VAC. It appears to be dead. The latter, rated at 380W, auto-shutdown safely within seconds of 100VAC operation. It appears to consider operation at any AC voltage under ~103W to be unsafe.

It is a measure of the Super series' quality design. It means that sags and brownouts in AC power, experienced by many people in many places in the world, should have no effect on a computer powered by one of the Seasonic Super series PSUs. A table of the Super Silencer 400 could have been posted but it would have been redundant because the voltage accuracy and output remained constant down to 80VAC there as well.

We'll look at the VR / VAC relationship in more detail, and examine this aspect of performance in other PSUs in the near future.

2nd, both the supply you have and the OCZ powerstream are ATX12V v1.3 PSUs of just basic spec complinace, meaning the 5% voltage reulation mentioned and they have a Differential Mode Periodic and Random Deviation of 50mV for the +3.3V & +5V rails and 120mV for the +12V rail, and while more amps and a stable and full 120VAC source may address the stability, what would be even better is 1% voltage regulation (Transient Response of all the main rails returning to within 1% of the nominal voltage in less than 1ms for a 20% load change) and a DM PARD (AC Ripple) of 10mV for all three rails
and that is called a PCP&C 510 Turbo Cool

3rd the other end of the chain is the mobos VRM (Voltage Regulation Modual) scheme
and how well that is implemented has a great deal to do with the stability of any overclock
which is both a model by model factor, and like all the ICs your dealing with unique (http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=761614) as well

what I think you need to do is actually run the numbers (http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=827964)
and factor in windage for the supplies your considering
If I was a serious overclocker, the premium that the PCP&C and a UPS would run, would be a comparitively small infrastructure investment that would definatively eliminate one of the biggest stability factors after the thermal solution

I need to ask for some help to, so I'm going to start a new thread. But I swear, don't any of you assholes help me!! http://hardforum.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

flaming isnt allowed, joke or no

[centvalny]

So, not only good powerful psu needed. A good ups will help. I tried a no name ups rated at 470va, but it won't work with 660W psu that ran with a phase changer rig, Once the compressor kicked on it just died. On top of that, my epox vrm probly messed up. Well, are we gonna' see APC/OCZ or BELKIN/FORTRON combo in the future?

[cornelious0_0]

Thank you for that Ice Czar, a good read.

[cornelious0_0]

Guys, I just found something that might delay my PSU purchase a bit.....

I just checked OCZ's website and there's actually a 600W Powerstream listed. It's actually about 7% more efficient at full load, while it carries the same 28A on the 3.3v as the 520W does, its 5v is 6A ahead at 46, and it actually carries dual 12v lines, one 20A and the second 18A, keeping my CPU and video card on seperate 12v lines, and still adding up to a very nice 38A worth on the 12v. The rails are actually listed in the spec sheet at +/- 1% regulation, which is comforting to know.

Despite how much ppl might loath OCZ, the PSU itself still looks very nice to me, I wanted the Antec Neopower originally because of the dual 12v rails, but now it seems I'd be getting the best of both worlds with the 600W Powerstream.

If I have to put off the PSU purchase for a couple weeks can someone recommend a nice UPS that I could look at with that 600W OCZ in mind?

[motithejrt]

UPS:

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=42-101-130&depa=0

[Ice Czar]

well both that OCZ and the Neopower would be ATX12V v2.0 PSUs
but I would point out that the Antec has a voltage regulation of 3% an over spec consideration,
both still have basic complinance with DM PARD however

http://www.silentpcreview.com/section4.html
both are reviewed though its the older powerstream
Mike Chin is one of a handful of competent PSU reviewers
most couldnt find their ass if there was a cord leading to it :p

and here is link to Topower (http://www.topower.com.tw/home/power_supply_atx12v.htm)
the maker of the current apple of your eye

[cornelious0_0]

motithejrt, I'm not about to spend $700 on a UPS when It's almost going to be tight to get my case and system finished before January, but something like that could definitely be something to look at afterwards. What's the technical way to decide on a VA rating if I'm gonna be running a 600W powersupply?

Also, anyone that SEES that 600W OCZ listed anywhere, I'd ask you to please let me know....as I'm not sure HOW new it is and if it's actually available yet. I sure as heck don't want anything else now though.

[starhawk]

how about those pics i recall you promising of introductions between your current psu and a 12lb sledge?

[cornelious0_0]

how about those pics i recall you promising of introductions between your current psu and a 12lb sledge?

First I need to find out if the 600W Powerstream is actually available and if not...when. Obviously nothing is going to happen until I can get what I want, and I'm gonna start searching for news on the 600W now.

EDIT: Well, it looks like it was only just announced on the 26th of last month....so depending on how long it might take to hit the shelves it COULD be a tough decision to wait.

[Ice Czar]

What's the technical way to decide on a VA rating if I'm gonna be running a 600W powersupply?

well AC current is only converted as needed
so your still likely under 300 watts consumption (a misnomer) even at full looad but till you run the numbers you cant really tell, then there is the temperature variable, the efficiency at load variable, the load variable, uptime required :p

just use this
http://www.apcc.com/tools/ups_selector/index.cfm##

then once I have a KVA range I go shoppin different brands
sometimes there are some pretty nice UPS on ebay
rackmounts ect, but figure on replacement batteries eventually and shipping charges

[starhawk]

First I need to find out if the 600W Powerstream is actually available and if not...when. Obviously nothing is going to happen until I can get what I want, and I'm gonna start searching for news on the 600W now.

EDIT: Well, it looks like it was only just announced on the 26th of last month....so depending on how long it might take to hit the shelves it COULD be a tough decision to wait.

http://www.nicoritschel.com/freehosting/userfiles/starhawk/frusturated.gif aaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrgggg!!

[cornelious0_0]

http://www.nicoritschel.com/freehosting/userfiles/starhawk/frusturated.gif aaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrgggg!!

What? I realised that a lot of people have beef with OCZ, but I've had a few sets of their ram, am running some right now, and I really wanna give the Powerstream line a go. If anyone here has any personal (or not) vendetta's with OCZ I'd ask you to either leave or put them aside, because I don't need ppl trying to persuade me everytime their name is mentioned.

thx

[motithejrt]

OCZ?!?!? http://www.nicoritschel.com/freehosting/userfiles/starhawk/frusturated.gif

[Dillusion]

corn-nelly-oos0_0,

FYI the OCZ PSU's are made by TAGAN/E-Power, not Toppower, dont know where that guy pulled that name out. And yes, the pwoerstream series is great, ide get one if i had the money, but my enermax noisetaker dual +12v rails is fine for me. 420W to powe rmy LGA775 system + an X800 all OC'd, not too bad.

I would too recommend the OCZ series if you want a stable PSU for all that ish.

BTW: PM me on where you got that CSP-700 pump, i wanna get one for my WCing LGA775 kit im getting next week but i cant find any :(

[Ice Czar]

corn-nelly-oos0_0,

FYI the OCZ PSU's are made by TAGAN/E-Power, not Toppower

LOL, Tagans are made by Topower (http://www.topower.com.tw/En_default.asp) too :p

http://www.dansdata.com/top686p6.htm
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article173-page3.html
http://home.no.net/afenost/uploads/TOP.jpg
caption>" the TOP label on the transformer rings a bell, but can't place it..." :p
(Photo by Mike Chin hosted seperately)

both Tagan (http://www.tagan.com/) & ePower (http://www.epowertec.com/power_tagan.html) are simply "johnny come lately" rebranders \ retailers
while Topower has been a major player in PSU manufacturing for quite awhile
(started in 1986) I own a redundant Topower TOP-300SSR

and for Tagan


The Finnish Safety Technology Authority monitors the market for unsafe and possibly hazardous equipment/materials in Finland.

It has recently issued the following statement about
Tagan TG330-U01 (Topower Electronics Co Ltd, China):

http://www.tukes.fi/cgi-bin/myyntikiellot/tiedot.cfm?id=3753

[_Korruption_]

and here is link to Topower (http://www.topower.com.tw/home/power_supply_atx12v.htm)
the maker of the current apple of your eye
Make sure to look at the P6 series, as that line is the one used in the OCZ Powerstream.

[cornelious0_0]

Thx for all the suggestions guys, as if the 600W Powerstream with the dual 12v rails isn't going to be out anytime soon I'm gonna have to start looking at alternatives.

[centvalny]

well AC current is only converted as needed
so your still likely under 300 watts consumption (a misnomer) even at full looad but till you run the numbers you cant really tell, then there is the temperature variable, the efficiency at load variable, the load variable, uptime required :p

just use this
http://www.apcc.com/tools/ups_selector/index.cfm##

then once I have a KVA range I go shoppin different brands
sometimes there are some pretty nice UPS on ebay
rackmounts ect, but figure on replacement batteries eventually and shipping chargesMake sure don't buy APC 350 and 400VA. b/c of defective and been recalled.

[cornelious0_0]

Make sure don't buy APC 350 and 400VA. b/c of defective and been recalled.

Thx for the heads up.

[starhawk]

What? I realised that a lot of people have beef with OCZ, but I've had a few sets of their ram, am running some right now, and I really wanna give the Powerstream line a go. If anyone here has any personal (or not) vendetta's with OCZ I'd ask you to either leave or put them aside, because I don't need ppl trying to persuade me everytime their name is mentioned.

thx

that arg concerned the pics being a long time away... nothing to do with ocz... who i have nothing against...

[Ice Czar]

that arg concerned the pics being a long time away... nothing to do with ocz... who i have nothing against...

Ive forgiven them their past transgressions, since they seem to be on the up and up now
that is not to say they arent still sinning when it comes to bullsh!t marketese hyperbol
and a lack of anything but the most basic technical specs for a PSU that aspires to a slot in the superior category

personally considering the application, I wouldnt waste my time with that 600 watt
my first choice would be the PC Power and Cooling 510 Turbo Cool Express (http://www.pcpowerandcooling.com/products/power_supplies/maxperformance/turbocools/index_hp_atx.htm)
followed the Neopower
after that for reliable basic spec compliance
Enermax ATX12V v2.0 series (Noisetakerv2.0 and CoolerGiant)
Fortron Blue Storm ATX12V v2.0

that 600 Watt is simply a further interation of the bigger is better game
and while it has adjustable pots, most other supplies do as well, just not externally
and as mentioned before, its just basic compliance and for overclocking Id get as tight and clean as possible

Im running dual 244 Opterons, 4GB of PC2700, FX3000, K8W and 10 Drives
3 x 120 Fnas (Midcase) and a smaller crossflow
and the Turbo Cool 510 is Rock Steady with no fluctuation on the rails
in comparision to the cost of that rig, the PCP&C was cheap insurance

and Id point out that when compared to the OCZ it too is a 600 watt,
since the 510 Watt rating is for 40C not 25C like the OCZ\Topower

[motithejrt]

Fortron Blue Storm ATX12V v2.0
I see you've added that one to your list http://hardforum.com/images/smilies/wink.gif was that before or after my thread? http://hardforum.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Ice Czar]

after, your post was the first I saw of it actually in stores

all the major manufacturers have had the ATX12V v2.0 supplies listed on their sites for awhile
(half a year to a year now) but they werent really in the distribution chain
Antec managed to get out first as far as I can tell with the Neopower, followed by Enermax and the Fortron
which is sort of a list of the main manufacturers, the rebranders like OCZ, Epower ect, are beginning to catch up as the need grows

alot of manufacturers sort of did half measures making highbred ATX12V v1.3 supplies with more amps on the +12V rail but still a single +12V rail, and with the higher efficiency but still the 20 pin connector, so you end up with a grab bag of ATX12V v1.3 monster watt supplies that hit or miss on actually being able to power some configs, largely because the watts\amps are on the wrong rails

[motithejrt]

I submit to your superior knowledge of all things PSU, I am not worthy! http://hardforum.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[cornelious0_0]

I submit to your superior knowledge of all things PSU, I am not worthy! http://hardforum.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Ditto, even though time is tight you've really got me thinking about PCP&C again. If not that then it's good to know that the NeoPower may still serve me well. We'll see, maybe I can make something work for the PCP&C 510. :cool:

[motithejrt]

I see you might finally be coming around...

[Ice Czar]

there arent all that many applications where I seriously pimp the PCP&C

they are pretty much limited to my situatuion
1. a monster rig worth more than my first car cost
and yours
2. serious overclocking :p

if someone is simply dabbling in overclocking
or just building a nice gaming rig, there are lots of other supplies
and getting one that exceeds spec isnt all that critical
but your looking to eliminate the supply as a potential contributing factor in the overclock
and thats serious overclocking, Ive never heard of one overclocker complain about a PCP&C Turbo Cool
actually they have all said its the best investment they made
(and my home forum was OC&Cooling for my first 2 years here, but I was in it for the cooling :p )
hell didnt you mention phase change somewhere?
$200+ is cheap compared to just one magic smoke incident and will last a considerable time

so thats my reasoning

note: while the PCP&C has a single +12V rail, its not that big a deal in a supply that is able to maintain a transient response of 1%, and such clean AC Ripple
as our resident EE gee pointed out to me, dual rails is a measure adopted in the latest ATX12V spec that ensure cheaper voltage regulation schemes ensure stability ;)
(I was a little perturbed for awhile when I discovered my 510 EPS12V was simply compatible not compliant till gee settled me down :p
though they are releasing EPS12V compliant supplies soon with either common or split rail configuration read 3 or 4 +12V rails respectively)

[motithejrt]

I am not, apparently, worthy of gee either. All hail gee and ice czar!

[computerpro3]

Ditto, even though time is tight you've really got me thinking about PCP&C again. If not that then it's good to know that the NeoPower may still serve me well. We'll see, maybe I can make something work for the PCP&C 510. :cool:

Corn, I have a PCP&C 510 deluxe, and trust me, it is bar none the absolute best decision I have ever made regarding ANY componet of ANY computer I have had throughout the years. I would have reccomended it before but I didn't because I figured if you were looking at the OCZ you were looking for bling cheap. The pcp&c will annihilate the OCZ 600w, did you know that right on my unit it says max output 650w+ (the ocz 600w is max output 600w @ 40C)? It's a 660w unit with APFC and 1% line tolerances, fully BLACK sleeved cables and painted matte BLACK (I know your lian li is a black themed mod, right?). By all accounts it would be the perfect psu for you.

Plus corn, you've seen my systems, a 2.4C to 3.8ghz? An early run 3.0C to 4ghz? As Ice said, a serious overclocker will never complain about this psu. And you know Hipro from xtreme? Well here's a direct quote


To be honest.........I took a good look at it's circuit and I MUST confess that it's one of the BEST PSU out there.......VERY well sophisticated - very well designed - GOOD components on it happens all the time - as for the one that came in my hands ) - and VERY intelligent design too......All I have to say about it is that this PSU rocks big time......I wish I have a 700 watts unit of it if ever made......


Plus they ship direct to Canada!

[motithejrt]

Come on corn, say you are going with the PCP&C so this thread can die already http://hardforum.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[computerpro3]

corn-nelly-oos0_0,

FYI the OCZ PSU's are made by TAGAN/E-Power, not Toppower, dont know where that guy pulled that name out.



out of my ass :rolleyes:

just to let you know, Toppower MAKES Tagan/e-power supplies, they are known as something called an oem......


edit: oops Ice already said that, i dunno how I missed the big pic...

[cornelious0_0]

Plus they ship direct to Canada!

That is true.......alright guys, you've got me.....

PCP&C it is, I guess I'll put off the PSU for awhile. I guess it's worth waiting for the absolute best PSU out there, even if it means holding off on maxing out my overclock for now. ;)

Now I'm getting all giddy. :D

Come on corn, say you are going with the PCP&C so this thread can die already

It's done, and I am.....thank you everyone for bringing to light a number of things I apparently didn't know about the PSU market and how some of these things work. Also, thx for computerpro and Ice Czar for helping me realise that PCP&C is more then just an over glorified enthusiast power supply. :cool:

[motithejrt]

wooohooo!! You are so weak, you converted!! http://hardforum.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[starhawk]

http://www.nicoritschel.com/freehosting/userfiles/starhawk/word_up.gif

now flatten the old one already so we can see it in glorious destruction...

or you will be consigned to speaking only h4><0r for a week!

[cornelious0_0]

wooohooo!! You are so weak, you converted!! http://hardforum.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

/shrugs shoulders

eh, what can I say. :p

now flatten the old one already so we can see it in glorious destruction...

Hold tight, as much as I DON'T want to have to face that kind of punishment, I need to round up the cash for the PCP&C, as I was only planning on spending $165 CDN + tax/shipping for the 520W OCZ, and the PCP&C is gonna be about $100 more by the looks of it.

The smash-time will come, just wait. :D

[motithejrt]

Instead of smashing it, why don't you post a thread in the for sale forum so someone who needs one can buy it off of you and you can absorb some of the hit of the cost of the new PSU? http://hardforum.com/images/smilies/confused.gif

If you still insist, I say you smash the fucker while it's plugged in! http://hardforum.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[starhawk]

now that would be spectacular.

[cornelious0_0]

now that would be spectacular.

Hehe, yeah...plug the thing into the wall outside and smash it to bits.....not quite the safest thing in the world to do but yeah. :p

I might just wait and sell it.....I gotta see exactly how much it'll be to pick up the 510W PCP&C. It might actually be cheaper for someone in the states to buy it and ship it to me. If anyone is willing to take payment a day or so in advance and could purchase the PSU and ship it to me it might end up saving me some cash. I'll check tonight and see what the Canadian end total would be doing it myself.

[starhawk]

mispost