Can some1 explain me the diferences btw . . .

[IeU]

Hello People,

Im planing about buying a new pc, well not buying but upgrading.

i was just browsing harddisks, and found

eide,ata,serial,scsi,sata

what is the diference btw them, and do ive to have any special card/board to run it ?
( or point me a webpage where says pros contras, price . . . )

thanks


/edit

ive a ide 7200 and sometimes i find it really slow...

asus a7v333 ( bios updated 16 )
athlon xp 1700+

[The_Mage18]

EIDE = Same as ATA these days. Some Maxtors and Seagates can operate at Ultra 133 which transfers data at 133MB/s peek. All other new drives operate at Ultra 100 which, as you guessed, is 100MB/s

ATA = Generally reffered to for CD/DVD/Zip drives. Not really used for hard drives that much spec-wise. Long story short, see EIDE.

SATA = The new standard for hard drives. Requires a special power connection. Most motherboards include an adaptor and good quality power supplies have at least 2 connectors for SATA hard drives on them. The data cable is MUCH smaller than EIDE data cables (those flat gray cables). SATA drives are easy to install, connect the cable up to the drive and on the port on the board and you're done, and are faster. SATA transfers data at 150MB/s currently and will be higher in the future.

Serial = See SATA. Same thing, the S in SATA stands for Serial.

SCSI = EXPENSIVE!!!! There are various forms of SCSI interfaces. The most common are Ultra 40, Ultra 80, Ultra 160, and the newest Ultra 320. To use a SCSI hard drive, you have to buy the hard drive, and a SCSI card and possibly the cable to connect the two. SCSI supports up to 14 drives on the same cable and the newest form transfers data at 320MB/s.

Cons:
EIDE is the type of drive nearly every home computer has and will have for a little while longer. They're cheap drives and readily available. Bad news is the industry wants to get rid of them because the cables are large, difficult to manage and they can't get it to run any faster. Dying technology more or less. Now that doesn't mean if you get an EIDE drive today in a month you can't use it, more like in 2 years.

SATA is the new standard. The drives are only slightly more than their EIDE counterparts if not the same price. They have better warranties generally and do perform slightly better. The biggest plus is the ease of installation. The data cable is twice the size of a CDROM audio cable and very easy to manage. Also it's impossible to plug the cable in the wrong direction.

SCSI is expensive and for home users not worth the money. Expect to pay $100 for the PCI interface card alone if you get an average quality brand. SCSI is also not user friendly. Each drive has to have it's own ID set, and the cable has to have a terminator on the end to stop the signal. On top of that if you plug in a drive that's not properly configured, it can prevent all the drives on that cable from working at all. Unless you're building a server or are doing profesional level video capture/rendering, don't even consider SCSI.

[The_Mage18]

Forgot to add some more info. :D

SCSI = Yes, you need a SCSI PCI controller to use.

EIDE/ATA = Nope, built into every motherboard since Pentium days. You can get PCI controller cards to add up to four more drives, even cheap RAID cards, if you want. Depending on the Mobo you get, it may have an IDE RAID controller built into it.

SATA = Same thing as EIDE. Nearly every modern motherboard has at least two ports on it. Intel's newest chipsets, the 915 and 925X have minimum of 4 SATA ports. Once again you can get PCI cards that will give you more SATA ports easily enough.

Something to keep in mind is for every IDE port, you can connect up to 2 drives. These are where your CD and DVD drives will plug in to. You don't need anything special, all motherboards will have this connection. For each SATA port you can only connect 1 hard drive. So if a motherboard has 2 SATA ports, you can only connect 2 SATA hard drives.

[IeU]

thanks for the quick reply :) very informative :)
thanks a lot

well as i said before ive a "Asus a7v333 *updated bios 1.16*"
Review : http://www.motherboards.org/reviews/motherboards/1175_2.html

http://www.asus.com.tw/mb/socketa/a7v333/specification.htm


...
What you do get offered is the on-board Promise 20276 ATA133 RAID controller, which enables enhanced functionality and hard disk performance without the cost of additional add-on cards. The Promise controller supports the basic two drive RAID Modes, 0 (Striping) or 1 (Mirroring) but not the slightly advanced 0+1 a combination of the two arrays. You also get the standard UDMA 133/100/66 controllers for attaching up to four of your CD/DVD drives, ZIP players and additional devices other than your hard drives. You can use the RAID controller in a standard ATA133 configuration also.
...


well no sata ?

[IeU]

doing a bit research

ive a
Western Digital
WD600BB
http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=711&p_created=1037284926&p_sid=TcUDBSph&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ 9MiZwX2NhdF9sdmwxPTE4NSZwX3BhZ2U9MSZwX3NlYXJjaF90ZXh0PXdkNjA wYmI*&p_li=

its says :

Data Transfer Rate (maximum)
- Buffer to Host





- Buffer to Disk
100 MB/s (Mode 5 Ultra ATA)
66.6 MB/s (Mode 4 Ultra ATA)
33.3 MB/s (Mode 2 Ultra ATA)
16.6 MB/s (Mode 4 PIO)
16.6 MB/s (Mode 2 multi-word DMA)

420 Mbits/s maximum


and in windows xp says its at UDMA 2 , so max 33mbit

but my board can get much over that, how can i config it to run at higher speeds ?

[jnex26]

Well to Sum Thingss up.

SCSI = Expensive. But Very Fast. Correction Incredibly Fast. Unless your Mr money bags and have plenty of time to spend fiddling with SCSI. Then Don't Bother.

ATA (ATAPI) = Is a Generic IDE Device and uses a ribbon cable. Not quite dying yet as ALOT of devices still use them (CD-ROM) Etc...... Don't Buy These Unless you really have to.

SATA (Serial ATAPI) = Is the Next Gen IDE. Good Speeds are acheivable and generally good quality. Large range avalible from pretty much anywhere.

EIDE (Enhanced Ide) = Man I haven't heard that term in along time It's Just a way of refering to a Ultra Mode IDE Drive.

Everyone Forgets.....

eSATA (Enterprise SATA) = These are the High End Sata Drives. Designed for Low - Mid Range server uses. Generally Very fast drives and very reliable. The Most notable eSATA drive on the maket ATM in the WD Raptor Drives. Not Great on space but speed is their forte.

[The_Mage18]

well no sata ?

No SATA for you! :D

You'd have to get a PCI SATA card if you really wanted to go that route.

As for your hard drive issues, did you install Via's Hyperion drivers?

Also what kind of cable did you connect the hard drive with? There's two kinds, one is 40-wire and is easy to fold. The other is 80-wire, a little thicker and MUCH stiffer. If you didn't connect the hard drive up with an 80-wire cable, it won't run any faster than DMA 33. You have to have the 80-wire cable for DMA 66 and up.

Last question, is the hard drive and CDROM on the same cable? If so move the CDROM drive to a different cable as it can slow down the hard drive. IDE is simple, it only runs as fast as the fastest device on that cable.
Supposedly newer motherboards can compensate and work around this but I have no faith in that.

[The_Mage18]

Everyone Forgets.....

eSATA (Enterprise SATA) = These are the High End Sata Drives. Designed for Low - Mid Range server uses. Generally Very fast drives and very reliable. The Most notable eSATA drive on the maket ATM in the WD Raptor Drives. Not Great on space but speed is their forte.

PICKY PICKY!!!! :p

The interface is still the same so I didn't bother mentioning it.

[IeU]

thanks mage

no cd is in ide2 alone

:)

about the cable, well i do think that ive a 80pin, bcse its running at UDMA 2 so = 66 or ?

what i can understand is, if ive a hd taht suports till 133mbs/sec ( udma 5 ? )
and also a MB that suport it, why cant i run at 133 ( umda 5 ? )

what else may be if not cable

im searching in the internet for pics, to see the diference btw 40 and 80 cables

:)

but mage, thanks in advance

[E4g1e]

about the cable, well i do think that ive a 80pin, bcse its running at UDMA 2 so = 66 or ?
Nope. You may be using a 40-wire cable. Check the three connectors on your IDE cable. If all three connectors are exactly the same color (black), then you have an old-fashioned 40-wire cable which will limit your interface speed to 33 MB/s even if your drive supports ATA 100/133. But if your cable has three connectors of different colors, then you have an 80-wire cable, and then you should check other parts of your system to determine what is holding your speed back.

And UDMA 2 = 33 MB/s, not 66 MB/s.

And by the way, your WD600BB drive is of an older design, with only 2MB of cache. Most current 7200rpm hard drives have 8MB of cache. Couple the relatively small 2MB of cache with that Via IDE controller (remember, most A7V333's have only the Via IDE controller but no Promise RAID controller), and you'll have slower-than-expected performance.

[IeU]

after a bit research
found :
.
.
.
SERIAL/SATA CABLE : http://www.pcmall.com/pcmall/shop/detail.asp?dpno=425611
http://image1.cc-inc.com/prod/425000/425611_lg.jpg
.
.
.
SERIAL/SATA PCI CONTROLER : http://www.promise.com/product/product_detail_eng.asp?productId=98&familyId=3#
http://www.promise.com/product/images/SATA150TX4_small
.
.
.
ATA 40 PIN CABLE : http://www.pcmall.com/pcmall/shop/detail.asp?dpno=157646
http://image1.cc-inc.com/prod/157000/157646_lg.jpg
.
.
.
ATA 80 PIN CABLE : http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1065169792886&skuId=6058213&type=product
http://images.bestbuy.com/BestBuy_US/images/products/6058/6058213_sa.jpg
.
.
.

but looking from here, are u sure that i may connect this cable to my harddrive ?
bcse the connector from 80pins cables seems smalle then the ones from 40pin cables.

[IeU]

Nope. You may be using a 40-wire cable. Check the three connectors on your IDE cable. If all three connectors are exactly the same color (black), then you have an old-fashioned 40-wire cable which will limit your interface speed to 33 MB/s even if your drive supports ATA 100/133. But if your cable has three connectors of different colors, then you have an 80-wire cable, and then you should check other parts of your system to determine what is holding your speed back.

And UDMA 2 = 33 MB/s, not 66 MB/s.

And by the way, your WD600BB drive is of an older design, with only 2MB of cache. Most current 7200rpm hard drives have 8MB of cache. Couple the relatively small 2MB of cache with that Via IDE controller (remember, most A7V333's have only the Via IDE controller but no Promise RAID controller), and you'll have slower-than-expected performance.

thanks a lot for the explanation :)

i ll buy a 80pin cable, even if my drive is old, i may expect getting a better performance by just changing the cables, well i ll go from 33mbits to 100mbits

bcse my mb :

IDE Ports
2 x UltraDMA/133/100/66


and my old hd :

Mode 5 Ultra ATA 100.0 MB/s
Mode 4 Ultra ATA 66.6 MB/s
Mode 2 Ultra ATA 33.3 MB/s
Mode 4 PIO 16.6 MB/s
Mode 2 multi-word DMA 16.6 MB/s


:)

thanks a lot ppl
anyway, depending on the performance gains, i ll keep my hd with this setup ( 80pin cable )

and upgrade just processor, ram and video card

:)

thankkkksss

[E4g1e]

Okay, so if the cable makes some difference in the HD performance, and you're planning to upgrade your CPU, memory and video card, be aware that your motherboard itself will limit your upgrades. The A7V333 will not officially run DDR memory at faster than PC2700 speeds, and (depending on your mobo's PCB version) may not support any CPUs that require an FSB speed above 266MHz (133MHz DDR). Only PCB version 2.00 of the A7V333 will support even the 333MHz FSB (166MHz DDR) CPUs or any Thortons or Bartons - PCB version 1.xx will only support Thoroughbreds or older and FSB speeds of 266MHz (133MHz DDR) or slower.

[Ice Czar]

ATA = Generally reffered to for CD/DVD/Zip drives. Not really used for hard drives that much spec-wise. Long story short, see EIDE.


you mean ATAPI not ATA ;)

The Brief History of ATA and ATAPI (http://www.ata-atapi.com/hist.htm)
AT Attachment (ATA) is the protocol both Parallel ATA (IDE) and Serial ATA (SATA) employs

ATA 80 PIN CABLE :

no just an 80 wire\conductor cable, again with 40 pins ;)
the extra 40 conductors are all ground wires to cutdown crosstalk
and dont have pins of their own

[IeU]

thanks eagle for your feedback :)

well what ive seen is :

http://www.asus.com.tw/support/cpusupport/cpusupport.aspx

i may run for example : Athlon XP 3000+(333 MHZ FSB)(Model 10)(Barton) - ~110 Dolars
which one is a very good proc and at a good speed nowdays, or not ?

and about the memory
im aware about it, but im not a performace freak or whatelse :)
do i really lose a LOT of performance btw :

2 x Kingston HyperX Series 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-2700 - ~210Dolars

2 x Kingston HyperX 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-3200 - ~270Dolars

2 x Kingston Hyperx Series 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-4000 - ~350Dolars

i mean, there is a diference btw the prices
and buying a new good mob will be a bit expensive ( yes, i really care about buying a expensive mob, but must be good )

does it really worht in performance gains ?

if i keep my mb until now i would be spending something about :
210 + 110 = 320 Dolars
plus graphic card

i would go out from a :
AMD Athlon XP +1700
256 mb ram ( no idea about speed )
40 pin wire
geforce 4 mx440

to something :
AMD Athlon XP 3000+333 MHZ FSB Barton
2 x Kingston HyperX Series 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-2700
80 pin wire
and im not sure about video card

but would spend something like : 600 - 800 Dolars

bcse i do pretend about buying a new case and powersuply
what do u guys think about it

[E4g1e]

thanks eagle for your feedback :)

well what ive seen is :

http://www.asus.com.tw/support/cpusupport/cpusupport.aspx

i may run for example : Athlon XP 3000+(333 MHZ FSB)(Model 10)(Barton)
which one is a very good proc and at a good speed nowdays, or not ?
Depends on your mobo's PCB version. The version number can be found printed on the motherboard itself, next to the model number. If it reads "VER. 1.01", "VER. 1.02" or "VER. 1.04", then you can only upgrade to an Athlon XP 2600+(266MHz FSB)(Model 8)(Thoroughbred) at most. Only PCB VER. 2.00 can run Athlon XP 3000+(333MHz FSB)(Model 10)(Barton).

[IeU]

i ll take a look at it now

turning off :)


edit :
1.02

:(

[IeU]

well
i started looking for the "Thoroughbred 2600"

and didnt found

what i understood is that i may only have processors which ones have at maximum 266fsb

right ?

example :

* AMD Athlon XP 2400+ 2,0GHz FSB266 Sockel A In-A-Box

* AMD Athlon MP 2600+ 2,13GHz FSB266 Sockel A In-A-Box

what is this "MP" in the second one ?

edit :
just discovered that the second one isnt supported by my MB

[Ice Czar]

what is this "MP" in the second one ?

multiprocessing
as in SMP symmetric multiprocessing (2 or more processors)
they have now been eclipsed by the Opteron Line or for Intel Xeon \ Itanium