Lindows

[Matt Welke]

Anybody heard much about it? I was wondering if you could install it onto a PC, or does the hardware have to be a certain type to work with it? Lindows sounds extremely stable and fast, and I am seriously looking into upgrading from Windows 98/SE to it!

[jpmkm]

I've heard lindows is a stupid, worthless piece of crap. I think they changed the name a couple months ago. Linspire or something. It should work on most standard pc hardware. Though I recommend looking into mandrake and fedora core a bit before you decide to go with linspire. At least you could try them out before shelling out $60 for linspire.

[Bio Hazord]

Lindows is linux just to let you know you can DL of the net (not lindows other linux), and no it does not need speical hardware or atleast last time I checked it didn't

[FrothyByte]

Lindows is now called Linspire like the above poster stated.

I have installed it on a machine and it is a good choice for people who are looking for a Linux OS for mom. What I mean is mom can use it because it is VERY similar in look and feel as Windows.

It is NOT however a good choice for a person who is looking at really learning the Linux OS. I assume that since you are viewing these forums, you are a person that likes to dabble with the inner workings of whatever OS you choose. That being said, I think as the poster above mentioned, you may want to look towards a different Linux distro if it is for yourself.

A very good source for Linux information can be found at the following links:

This forum's sub-forum (http://www.hardforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=96)
http://www.linuxquestions.org/

If you are just learning a good place to start is to get a LiveCD that you can boot to and then you don't have to worry about messing up your existing system's configuration.

[ameoba]

a) Lindows is not Windows nor is it a clone; if you want Windows and the ability to run all your Windows software, you're still stuck with MSFT.

b) Lindows is a 2nd-rate Linux distro; if you really want to run Linux, go with a proper distribution (Debian, Redhat/Fedora, Slackware, Mandrake, Gentoo...) and you'll have a more pleasant experience.

[Matt Welke]

Actually, I'm a home computer user, who just knows a ton more about them than his parents, and wants to inrease the overall performance and stability of his PC by upgrading from Windows 98/SE to Linspire.

[Carloswill]

a) Lindows is not Windows nor is it a clone; if you want Windows and the ability to run all your Windows software, you're still stuck with MSFT.

b) Lindows is a 2nd-rate Linux distro; if you really want to run Linux, go with a proper distribution (Debian, Redhat/Fedora, Slackware, Mandrake, Gentoo...) and you'll have a more pleasant experience.

You could have locked the thread after this...perfect!

[Matt Welke]

Hm, they make Linspire sound so good... Why does everyone think its shit (besides the fast its not as compatiable with EVERY computer component yet)?

[FrothyByte]

I don't think that it is shit.

I think that it is a good alternative for a desktop OS for someone who does not need nor want to tinker with their OS. --> Hence my comment being good for my mom.

The negativity you are getting from this thread is because of the general disposition of the people who visit these forums --> ppl who NEED and WANT to tinker with their OS.

[jpmkm]

They make linspire sound good becuase they want your $60. Yes they have done some work and yes they have some enhancements, but you should figure out if those enhancements are really worth the $60. If you just want to get away from windows then you might want to try fedora core or mandrake or something first. And linux really isn't an upgrade to windows(amusing as it is to call it that); it is an entirely different operating system with different filesystems and configuration methods and such. All that is pretty transparent to the end user, though. Also, I would be willing to bet that no operating system is compatible with every piece of computer hardware.

[Archer75]

Lindows IS a good distro. After all, it is built on debian. It's stable and fast. My problem with it is the cost and the subscription for downloading out dated software that you could easily download and install yourself.

If Lindows was free I would run it over most other distros, but it's not so I run Mandrake.

[deuce868]

I don't know if it changed, but Lindows blew away several Linux main points such as not running as root (as I recall the initial user was installed with root permissions and no password) and other things that make linux what it is. They basically dumbed it down to a point where Linux advocates don't want to touch it, and Windows users don't get enough of the LInux benifits and way of life. I have always viewed it as an inbetween bastard child.

[emailthatguy]

a) linspire is based on debian, something you can get for free

b) click and run their easy 1 click software installer is just apt-get w/ a graphical browser pointed to their servers only. something also you can get for free w/o having to use their paid subscription, yes, theres a 5 dollar a month fee for click and run, and its worthless w/o it. also i know 5 bucks a month doesnt sound bad, but if you read the fine print, its a 1 year contract and if you quit before the year is up, they pop your credit card for the rest of the money for the term

c) you do run as root by default, which makes your system VERY open to external connections.

d) vnc is also running by default, which if someone uses to connect to your desktop, will make your machine even more vulnerable since vnc (virtual network connection remote desktop software) uses unencrypted open packets to send data about your desktop to the remote user.

e) once you have it installed an use it for 3-4 days tops, you outgrow it the second you need to install a program thats only distributed in source code, and you will, i promise.

honestly, my suggestion, try fedora, its pretty damn good at finding even the latest hardware on the spot, has a pretty super easy installer and does all the partition junk easy as well. a noob can handle this,

linspire is just a gimmick, if you wanna pay for a linux, and you insist on not going for something free, buy suse, at least they have a reputable company like novell behind them now

just my thoughts,

me

[portlandoregongamer]

a) linspire is based on debian, something you can get for free

b) click and run their easy 1 click software installer is just apt-get w/ a graphical browser pointed to their servers only. something also you can get for free w/o having to use their paid subscription, yes, theres a 5 dollar a month fee for click and run, and its worthless w/o it. also i know 5 bucks a month doesnt sound bad, but if you read the fine print, its a 1 year contract and if you quit before the year is up, they pop your credit card for the rest of the money for the term

c) you do run as root by default, which makes your system VERY open to external connections.

d) vnc is also running by default, which if someone uses to connect to your desktop, will make your machine even more vulnerable since vnc (virtual network connection remote desktop software) uses unencrypted open packets to send data about your desktop to the remote user.

e) once you have it installed an use it for 3-4 days tops, you outgrow it the second you need to install a program thats only distributed in source code, and you will, i promise.

honestly, my suggestion, try fedora, its pretty damn good at finding even the latest hardware on the spot, has a pretty super easy installer and does all the partition junk easy as well. a noob can handle this,

linspire is just a gimmick, if you wanna pay for a linux, and you insist on not going for something free, buy suse, at least they have a reputable company like novell behind them now

just my thoughts,

me
very well put...i would recommend going with suse for a beginners distro...

[Archer75]

a) linspire is based on debian, something you can get for free

b) click and run their easy 1 click software installer is just apt-get w/ a graphical browser pointed to their servers only. something also you can get for free w/o having to use their paid subscription,


You don't have to subscribe to this service. You can still apt-get just like you would from any other Debian distro.


c) you do run as root by default, which makes your system VERY open to external connections.


So? Linux users are nuts about running as root. I always found it very annoying to have to enter a password any time I wanted to do anything. I don't do that in windows and i've never been hacked and never had a virus.


e) once you have it installed an use it for 3-4 days tops, you outgrow it the second you need to install a program thats only distributed in source code, and you will, i promise.



I don't see why. You can install programs from source just like you would with any other distro. And it's got apt-get too, which makes all that very easy.

The only drawback I find with Lindows is that it isn't free. Aside from that it is Linux. As much as you may like to think it the "bastard child" it is still Linux nonetheless.

[deuce868]

So? Linux users are nuts about running as root. I always found it very annoying to have to enter a password any time I wanted to do anything. I don't do that in windows and i've never been hacked and never had a virus.

Yea, but how many other windows users have. How many would not have had the same problem if they did not run with an account with root privelages.

Really you only need root when setting things up. It's not like you need to su every time you open your email or browser.

[jpmkm]

So? Linux users are nuts about running as root. I always found it very annoying to have to enter a password any time I wanted to do anything. I don't do that in windows and i've never been hacked and never had a virus..
You may run your computer how you wish, but running as root for day to day tasks is STUPID, especially for the kind of people who are going to be running linspire. Imagine an exploit in a web browser or something. Now imagine if your browser is running as root. It has access to EVERYTHING on your computer. It can delete everything. It can get the shadow file. It can start up servers. Now if the browser is running as a user, the only files it has access to are the ones specifically allowed(home directory, tmp, et cetera). Sure, it can hose your files, but I would much rather have my files hosed than have my entire system hosed. Unix systems(and other multiuser systems) have been running this way for decades. I don't think your windows experience is some amazing revelation that allows you to call linux users nuts.

I usually have an eterm open in which I am root because I move files and edit configs and stuff pretty often. However, I don't allow any of my programs to be running as root. That is just stupid and irresponsible. I have no problem with you running your system that way; you can do whatever you want with it. Just don't go around telling people running as root is okay. Do you also tell people to not wear seatbelts? I've never been in a wreck, so all those people wearing seatbelts are nuts!

[Archer75]

For home use I don't see anything wrong with running as root. No problem whatsoever. I merely think you are overreacting.

If for some reason my system should become hosed I simply format and reinstall. It's that easy. I have backups of all my data on other systems and external hard drives.

Now for running a server left up 24/7 I would'nt run as root. But for a average home user I certainly would'nt worry about it.

[Carloswill]

You should NEVER run as ROOT unless making changes - If you feel that typing that password is annoying than maybe you will think twice when you are re-formating or buying some rip off anti-virus software...or maybe you're just a windows type of guy.

[jpmkm]

I'm not overreacting. It is common usage to never run as root unless necessary. You are simply being ignorant and ignoring common sense. Like I said, you can do whatever you want on your system, but please do not lead people to think it is okay or that it is standard practice.

[Archer75]

I'm not overreacting. It is common usage to never run as root unless necessary. You are simply being ignorant and ignoring common sense. Like I said, you can do whatever you want on your system, but please do not lead people to think it is okay or that it is standard practice.

I never said it was standard practice. In fact it is unusal for linux distros to force you to run as root as Lindows does. But I personally like it and find absolutely nothing wrong with it.

There is no need to resort to name calling

[deuce868]

...and find absolutely nothing wrong with it.

There is no need to resort to name calling


WINDOWS GUPPY :D

Seriously, if you don't see anything wrong with it the only thing I can think of is that you have spent far too much time in Windows as administrator and don't have family/friends that call you about the latest virus they picked up. The reason these things wreck so much havoc on windows machines is because these users are running with elevated permissions.

Linux admins spend all kinds of time chrooting daemons and users so that everything on a system has just what it needs to function. It's security. Try setting up some public stuff and come back and see if you don't change your mind.

[Archer75]

WINDOWS GUPPY :D
Linux admins spend all kinds of time chrooting daemons and users so that everything on a system has just what it needs to function. It's security. Try setting up some public stuff and come back and see if you don't change your mind.

As i've said before. For use in a server environment you should not run as root. As just a desktop machine it really does'nt matter. You can do whatever you want. I just think it's overkill and irritating.

Yes I do use windows primarily. I've never had a virus or been hacked. And i've been running windows since 3.1

[emailthatguy]

You don't have to subscribe to this service. You can still apt-get just like you would from any other Debian distro.
not very easilly, there are a lot of people on linspires own forums that have a lot of problems getting it working. and linspire themselves say the feature is "unsupported"



So? Linux users are nuts about running as root. I always found it very annoying to have to enter a password any time I wanted to do anything. I don't do that in windows and i've never been hacked and never had a virus.
lucky you. but if you were the majority, sasser wouldnt have made me 4k in the last two months cleaning up windows machines that worm exploited.




I don't see why. You can install programs from source just like you would with any other distro. And it's got apt-get too, which makes all that very easy.

see above for apt-get. also, getting the sources isnt very intuitive in the way they laid that os out. you cant argue w/ the fact that they HEAVILLY encourage the use of click and run. the fact that you have to dig hard for the fine print that tells you their 15 day trial will commit you to a 1 year contract if you decide to cancel their "cheap" service is simply a dishonest way of doing business (and you can say they are honest all you want in the reply. ill just tell you know, youre wrong about that if you do) and they WILL pop your credit card for the entire year if you cancel.


The only drawback I find with Lindows is that it isn't free. Aside from that it is Linux. As much as you may like to think it the "bastard child" it is still Linux nonetheless.
exactly so why bother w/ it in the first place, get a debian cd, fedora cd's, or mandrake cd's and use em w/o havin to worry about even buying linux for 70 bucks in the first place.

[Zlash]

Lindows sucks that's all there is to it. Paying for free software is a joke and running as root is just stupid. Go with Xandros if you want something like lindows but a lot better.

[Archer75]

All you have to do to be able to apt-get is a few entires in your config file and your done. Simple as that.

There is even a source from folks who have compiled software for apt-get. Problems solved. Could'nt be easier.

As for people in windows getting viruses, well, it's not windows fault, it's the user. They're just plain stupid. With a bit of common sense there is no problem protecting yourself from these things.

[TBird]

WOW....a lot of passionate linux folks here. I've been a Windows guy since day one. I have recently began playing in linux to broaden my horizons. I've played with Lindows, Red Hat, Mandrake, and SuSE. So far I have liked the SuSE distro the best. Being a newb and all, it was easy to get into. The install was a breeze too. I am currently running SuSE v9.1 Personal on Fred Sanford....check the sig. Runs like a top. I would highly recommend this distro to anyone new to linux. You can download the ISO for free.

[emailthatguy]

All you have to do to be able to apt-get is a few entires in your config file and your done. Simple as that.

There is even a source from folks who have compiled software for apt-get. Problems solved. Could'nt be easier.
sure it could, how bout just install debian in the first place wehre you dont have to edit a thing to get apt-get working. Another alternative is to just install fedora instead and you have yum working out of the box.


As for people in windows getting viruses, well, it's not windows fault, it's the user. They're just plain stupid. With a bit of common sense there is no problem protecting yourself from these things.

the reason i pointed out sasser was because you didnt need to do a thing to get it except forget to hit windows update or check your net news. it exploited a hole in windows, only thing you needed to do was be connected to a network. One of my clients ordered 3 new dells for their office and all 3 had sasser before we even connected them to the network. they were actually shipped w/ sasser.

as far as your arguments about running as root, face it. sure its possible to not have any problems as root, its just not as safe as not running as root. its like wearing a seatbelt in a car. will it keep you from dying in a car crash? maybe. but are you chances of surviving a lot higher? absolutely. so if you dont run as root is it impossible to not be hacked or exploited? no, but are your chances of staying secure a lot better not running as root? you damn right they are a lot better.

[Matt Welke]

What is "Running in Root"?

[FrothyByte]

What is "Running in Root"?

when someone refers to "running as root" they are saying that whoever is logged in has complete administrative privilages.

The reason it is bad is because if you are not completely sure what is going on you can really mess things up.

Also it is bad because every process that you start when running as root can basically do whatever it wants. This is bad if there is a program that someone knows how to exploit and then you start it as root. All the cracker has to do then is to send the exploit and he/she has taken over complete administrative rights of that box.

BAD BAD BAD. ONLY rarely should you ever directly login as root.

If you ever need to do administration it is just a "su" and a password away.

[Matt Welke]

I'm the only user of my personal computer, except my mom who has permission to check out wut I put on my computer periodicly. So, basicly, my computer always runs as root. Infact, I completely skip the login step, it just boots to the Windows Desktop.