Anyone seen these "high end" power cables

[EPS Sniper]

http://www.blackholecables.com/poweronyxplus.html

These were featured in Maximum PC and I was wondering if anyone has any experience with these power supply cables. Is there any advantage to having a heavier guage or purer copper cable? Enlighten me, please :)

[Ch1m3r4]

psh. I say no. But I have nothing to back that up, other than people would be touting higher quality cables already if they really made a difference. I mean, the concept of different gauge wire has been around for a long time, so if there was some benefit in having bigger wire, I don't think it would've just now been discovered and marketed...

I could be wrong though...

[weezer]

psh. I say no. But I have nothing to back that up, other than people would be touting higher quality cables already if they really made a difference. I mean, the concept of different gauge wire has been around for a long time, so if there was some benefit in having bigger wire, I don't think it would've just now been discovered and marketed...

I could be wrong though...


gonna have to agree here... if your concerned about your line buy a top of the line PSU

[Tim_axe]

That wire gauge might be good for making a 500ft (and low loss @ ~5%) power cable for a 500 watt PC powersupply, but I think that at 8 feet of lenght/gauge this is overkill (Especially at $50). You might save 0.134% (I probably calculated incorrectly, but the number is tiny) more energy to your powersupply (lost to resistance/heat), but I doubt that those savings would add on your electric bill to overcome the $50 that this costs anytime soon...

Sources:
5% Wire Loss (Distance, Gauge, AMPs) http://www.windsun.com/Hardware/Wire_Table.htm
OHM's LAW Calculator http://www.angelfire.com/pa/baconbacon/page2.html

[SacLANd]

A high end PSU would filter out all noise, not a high end power cable. it doesn't help if you house wiring is crap, in fact, you wouldn't see one bit of difference if you use that cable instead of some 0.99$ one. power lines ALWAYS have noise, and always have spikes, ect. a good power supply fixes all that.

[jpmkm]

For a computer there is no difference between that cable and a cable made out of aluminum foil. And there is no reason to have better wires from the wall to your computer than from the wall to the breaker box. It just defies all logic. I never understood why some people spend so much money on power cables. Though if I had lots of money then I would probably buy the most expensive everything just to have it. Gotta spend the money on something.

[·PitBuLL·]

ugh, wrong thread, sorry guys i drank a bit too much tonight

[xonik]

This cable is the definition of overengineering. Its current capacity is enormous, and its attempts to ensure clean power delivery are in vain, considering that PCs are designed to be quite tolerant of "impure" power input. This kind of cable belongs with audio equipment, and scientific instruments, where power quality must be excellent.

[·PitBuLL·]

Just makes me tingle inside when I look at the price, $49.99 for 8ft, that is hysterical.

[Mad_Pyro]

For a computer there is no difference between that cable and a cable made out of aluminum foil. And there is no reason to have better wires from the wall to your computer than from the wall to the breaker box. It just defies all logic. I never understood why some people spend so much money on power cables. Though if I had lots of money then I would probably buy the most expensive everything just to have it. Gotta spend the money on something.

Yeah, that just seems wrong to me. Aluminum foil definitely does not conduct as well as copper wiring.

[Little Grabbi]

Just take a thicker strand, and it works just fine... but if what is said on that site is true, I could use the power cable from my arc welder to get more and better electricity to my pc... lol

[mashie]

And why spend $50 on a powercable when the wires behind the wall socket are the cheapest ones possible that are safe? :p

[FLECOM]

that and dont forget that the powersupply is a SWITCHING powersupply... which love to make noise and such... plus 99.9999% of all PSU's are designed with dirty power in mind...

seriously, blow the $50 on getting a really nice psu, like a Tagan or if you really got to blow cash PC Power & Cooling

[pbXassassinX1524]

PCP&C if you must spend money, is an excelent place to spend it!

[Tanis143]

I concur with the masses. Buying a 50.00$ PSU lead is like spending 200.00 bucks on a blowdryer when a 15.00 job from wal-mart does the same job. That item is just a way for someone to make money off of people's ignorance. If you want a good clean power signal, and dont trust a good switching psu, get a UPS, those really clean the signal up, and provide tremendous amounts of surge/spike protection

[FLECOM]

I concur with the masses. Buying a 50.00$ PSU lead is like spending 200.00 bucks on a blowdryer when a 15.00 job from wal-mart does the same job. That item is just a way for someone to make money off of people's ignorance. If you want a good clean power signal, and dont trust a good switching psu, get a UPS, those really clean the signal up, and provide tremendous amounts of surge/spike protection

well that also depends on the quality of the UPS...

my pc is always plugged into an APC SmartUPS 1000... has powerfiltering, and nearly true 60Hz sine wave output when on battery unlike 99% of other UPS's...

but all of this is really unessicary when it comes down to it... UPS's are really if you have bad power in your area... and trust me, i do... power goes out *at least* 3~5 times a day over here :rolleyes:

[Tanis143]

... and trust me, i do... power goes out *at least* 3~5 times a day over here :rolleyes:


Damn man, I would be pitching a fit with the local power company :(

[SacLANd]

I concur with the masses. Buying a 50.00$ PSU lead is like spending 200.00 bucks on a blowdryer when a 15.00 job from wal-mart does the same job. That item is just a way for someone to make money off of people's ignorance. If you want a good clean power signal, and dont trust a good switching psu, get a UPS, those really clean the signal up, and provide tremendous amounts of surge/spike protection

a 15$ PSU and a 100$ UPS does NOT give you clean power. the UPS can provide only a small amount of power filtering, however, a PSU with substandard components and improper line filtering and current capacity will fail no matter HOW much power filtering you have before it. you could have some 20,000$ scientific/medical line filter before it but it would not help the 15$ PSU that has underrated capacitors, poor heatsinking, tempature dependance, and noisey power output.
the PSU's JOB, in its entirety is to provide clean power no matter how unclean or how pure a source is givin.
a UPS' job is mainly to provide power backup, and surge protection. it isn't a power filter.
if you want a power filter, try these:
http://www.elect-spec.com/klr_$.htm
http://www.surgex.com/
http://www.tripplite.com/products/conditioners/index.cfm

[FLECOM]

Damn man, I would be pitching a fit with the local power company :(

well in south florida we have one choice... FP&L aka Florida Power and Light... now, to get an idea of this comany, the best way ive found is what the employees call it... F'king People & Loving it

lol

im logging all the "events" my UPS records and im going to mail it to the florida PSC becuase its really getting out of hand... every two years i have to replace the batteries in like 8 APC UPS' and that gets expensive!

also this should probably be in the new PSU forum... off it goes :D

[qdemn7]

a UPS' job is mainly to provide power backup, and surge protection. it isn't a power filter.
if you want a power filter, try these:
http://www.elect-spec.com/klr_$.htm
http://www.surgex.com/
http://www.tripplite.com/products/conditioners/index.cfm

Unless you buy a APC Smart UPS or something similar that provides pure sine-wave power, right?

RefurbUPS (https://www.refurbups.com/unitresults.asp?CatID=3&Go1.x=8&Go1.y=5) is a good place to get a Refurbished Smart UPS for about 1/3 of the cost of a new one. I'm planning on ordering a Smart UPS 1000 soon. For $178 shipped that can't be beat.

[EPS Sniper]

Wow.

This is quite a concensus here. I really didn't think that these cables made much of a difference. Personally, my computer isn't used for mission critical projects, but I thought that maybe somebody would be interested in these cables. I think they are more for looks than functionality...

Kind of off topic, but I do like my grounded Coolermaster cables. I just wish they made them in different lengths. There is some functionality.

[EPS Sniper]

Holy shit, I didn't even know there was a power supply forum.

[Tanis143]

a 15$ PSU and a 100$ UPS does NOT give you clean power. the UPS can provide only a small amount of power filtering, however, a PSU with substandard components and improper line filtering and current capacity will fail no matter HOW much power filtering you have before it. you could have some 20,000$ scientific/medical line filter before it but it would not help the 15$ PSU that has underrated capacitors, poor heatsinking, tempature dependance, and noisey power output.
the PSU's JOB, in its entirety is to provide clean power no matter how unclean or how pure a source is givin.
a UPS' job is mainly to provide power backup, and surge protection. it isn't a power filter.
if you want a power filter, try these:
http://www.elect-spec.com/klr_$.htm
http://www.surgex.com/
http://www.tripplite.com/products/conditioners/index.cfm

Excuse me, let me clarify. A GOOD UPS with line conditioning WILL provide clean power. Such as stated before about the APC SmartUPS. For info click here:

APC SmartUPS (http://www.apcc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=165)

One of the first features it lists is power conditioning. Little hint, next time you go to blast someone, make sure you clarify what they mean. I spoke on the assumption that people would know that a standard UPS does just what you say, provide power backup. BUT you can get UPS's that have power conditioning. And its well known that you get what you pay for when it comes to power supplies, so yes a 15.00 PSU could fail due to cheap build. But if someone is gonna lay down the cash for a good UPS, I highly doubt they would buy a chintzy PSU as well. :rolleyes:

[Ice Czar]

well those are certainly nice looking cables
if they actually had a mechanism to insure they remained plugged in at both ends....

maybe

and let me clarify the power conditioning argument SacLANd mentioned a $100 UPS
and Tanis143 linked a Smart UPS

strangly neither are UPSs, but rather SPS (Standby Power Supplies)
and as such, are limited in what they are capable of filtering as SacLANd pointed out ;)

Power Conditioning 101 (http://www.dansdata.com/sbs9.htm) @ dansdata
DIY UPS (http://www.dansdata.com/diyups.htm) @ dansdata
and for the overkill
Approaches to AC, DC or Hybrid Power Solutions for Colocation & Hosting Facilities (http://www.liebert.com/support/whitepapers/documents/DensityCombined5_new.pdf) PDF @ Liebert

without a bank of batteries that your running off of full time
the critical "buffer" for some ypes of power events, or catastrophic component failure enter into the picture
if a SPS fails to switch over fast enough, or switches over and back too much in reaction to sags\brownouts, especially if you have dirty power....

and in the PSU deals with poor power arena
yeh, up to a point, and highly variable between PSUs

[Vertigo Acid]

But if someone is gonna lay down the cash for a good UPS, I highly doubt they would buy a chintzy PSU as well. :rolleyes:

I tried using that logic on people spending $500 on a video card and $20 on a power supply, but it never works around here ;)

[FLECOM]

well those are certainly nice looking cables
if they actually had a mechanism to insure they remained plugged in at both ends....

maybe

and let me clarify the power conditioning argument SacLANd mentioned a $100 UPS
and Tanis143 linked a Smart UPS

strangly neither are UPSs, but rather SPS (Standby Power Supplies)
and as such, are limited in what they are capable of filtering as SacLANd pointed out ;)

Power Conditioning 101 (http://www.dansdata.com/sbs9.htm) @ dansdata
DIY UPS (http://www.dansdata.com/diyups.htm) @ dansdata
and for the overkill
Approaches to AC, DC or Hybrid Power Solutions for Colocation & Hosting Facilities (http://www.liebert.com/support/whitepapers/documents/DensityCombined5_new.pdf) PDF @ Liebert

without a bank of batteries that your running off of full time
the critical "buffer" for some ypes of power events, or catastrophic component failure enter into the picture
if a SPS fails to switch over fast enough, or switches over and back too much in reaction to sags\brownouts, especially if you have dirty power....

and in the PSU deals with poor power arena
yeh, up to a point, and highly variable between PSUs

they technically still are UPS's just standby ups's... the switchover time from AC to the inverter is so quick that there is no noticable interuption to items being protected by the UPS...

the SmartUPS's are as nice as you can get without going into like three-phase industrial systems or other equivilant crazyness

[FLECOM]

Holy shit, I didn't even know there was a power supply forum.

its new ;)

[Benny Blanco]

well those are certainly nice looking cables
I was thinking that I could see myself shelling out $20, for that cable... simply for the look :cool:

(edit - I just noticed they have a "basic" (http://www.blackholecables.com/poweronyx.html) version of the first link for $29.99... that's kind of tempting)

But then again, I don't think I care to deal with the massive thickness of the cable. Maybe I'll just go buy a heavy duty 3 prong plug for 2 bucks and put that on my current 99 cent PSU cable :D

[The_In_Kid]

most household power wiring is 14 gauge i think that goes for commercial power wiring as well

having a 10 gauge will have no benefeit

but ya gotta admit steel braided power cabled look pretty snazzy...

i have an antec true blue 480 and the damn wire is thick enough

[Ice Czar]

the switchover time from AC to the inverter is so quick that there is no noticable interuption to items being protected by the UPS...


in theory
but as you progress towards the truely cheap seats
the reliability becomes problematic, especially if they are constantly being tripped
with poor mains power, then on the other side they often wont switch over fast enough to filter a High Voltage Spike (like a nearby lightning strike) but thats a really rare occurance

you gets what you pay for

[qdemn7]

A good guide to the different type of UPS is here. (http://www.pcguide.com/ref/power/ext/ups/types.htm) Note that the Online UPS is the only one referred to as a "True" UPS.

[FLECOM]

see how the "True" is in "" that means that its just an "opinion" and not "true"

if i unplug my ups from the wall... my pc stays on, i can plug and unplug as much as i like for a good 30~40 mins or so before my batteries go bye bye... therefore it meets the requirement of an "Uninteruptable Power Supply"

also the author is not saying that online ups's are the only valid form of ups's... as he sais here...

"The best UPS units that use a true "online" design provide the best possible power conditioning because the output provided to the equipment is completely separate from the input power to the UPS. As a result, any problems from the line only affect the battery charger."

he means a true online ups i think... maybe it just sounds weird... either way

[gee]

From someone who designs switching power supplies as part of his job...

It doesn't matter if your computer power supply gets sinusoidal power! In fact, a computer switching power supply will probably last *longer* if it's getting a modified sine wave input, because there will be less ripple current in the primary side caps than with a pure sine input.

There will be much less of a difference with a PFC supply, mind you.

[gee]

And on the UPS debate, the definition we use here at work for an "uninterruptable power supply" is "a power supply that will not disappear for more than 1 AC cycle". Both SmartUPS and even cheap BackUPS units do this easily, within fractions of a cycle.

Practically, it means nothing if a UPS is true on-line - any properly designed load should work even after 2-3 lost AC cycles. And honestly, I trust the offline UPSes more than the true on-line ones because they operate at much less of a duty cycle. Offline UPSes have their input and output relay-connected 99.999% of the time, the rest of their guts powered off until it's needed - and non-switching relays practically never fail. Online UPSes constantly run, they go through thermal cycles with load changes, and since they're an active device they've certainly got a MTBF you can calculate.

If someone made a true-on-line UPS with multiple, redundant, hotswappable modules then I'd say "buy it!". But I've yet to see one of these.

[Marklar]

As a licensed electriction I gotta say that is a waste of money Im sure the outlet your comp is on is on a 15 amp circuit and using 14 gauge wire using this cord will have minimal differance in voltage drop. I mean come on a pc only draws a few amps and the cord is like 4' long, now if it was pullin upward around 25 amps and 100' away from a plug id say ok use this and make sure its on a 30 amp circuit.
BTW line noise yall are woried about is not cleaned by the ups a ups will help with voltage fluctuation normal voltage is around 120v depending on the load of the transformer where you live. A ups will try to keep this voltage stable if it goes out of a certin preprogramed range. as for the noise that is coming from the ground, to minimize that go outside and look at your breaker box and make sure you have a ground rod installed and a cold water ground. The best way to get rid of the noise is to have your equipment on an isolated ground. That is when you drive a ground rod and the ground for the comp plug goes directly to that ground rod and nothing else in your house connects to it. I install alot of these in data centers and for banks computer closets these people swear by them and since I stared doing that and usinging it at my house so do I.

[Outcompute_123]

Just makes me tingle inside when I look at the price, $49.99 for 8ft, that is hysterical.


Haha, I was at a comp usa the other day, and a 4 foot, plain, old black rubber cable, was 24.99.

That can be equally on par with this hysteria.


Marklar, good idea for the ground noise.
Wanna post a how-to guide on making sure we've got ground rods?

Or are we gonna have to give you a call ;) ?

[Marklar]

ok I will write a how to on isolated grounds Its gonna take a while because it will be very lenghty i belive because I dont want yall to mess it up and cause worse damage you have to do it a certian way or it wont work or it may cause more problems. I guess ill start a new thread for it when im done, mods got any idea where I can post this, psu forum?

[EPS Sniper]

Good God, I had no idea there were so many people on the board with experience in exactly this type of stuff. The only real advantage I can see to this cable is that it looks pretty damn swanky. I mean, you have to admit, it does look pretty cool for a power cable. But for the price and the claims it makes, it doesn't seem worth it.

I probably ought to invest in a decent surge protector rather than these five dollar jobbies I have behind the desk. Is there any difference between cheap surge protectors and more expensive ones?

[Ice Czar]

mods got any idea where I can post this, psu forum?

Ideal ;)
Im eventually going to build a FAQ Index like Ive got in Data Storage (http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=754424)
Id be real happy to include it (and read it ;) )

.

Is there any difference between cheap surge protectors and more expensive ones?
Yes, MOV based surge protectors can go bad, and yet appear to be functional
especially the cheap ones

again the same link
http://www.dansdata.com/sbs9.htm

of course surge protectors that arent MOV based arent all that common
http://www.brickwall.com/
and they get pricey, but you wouldnt need both a UPS\ SPS and a Surge Protector
generally its an either or thing

[qpid]

Speaking of swanky looking cables:

(mods feel free to move to case modding if need be)

Is there a site that sells power cables that aren't just the standard black?

I remember in school the imacs had a rainbow colored cable, I would love a green power cord, uv being doubleplus good.

[Ice Czar]

recreated in case mods here > http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1026166795#post1026166795