Aquarium Cooling - I Might Try It

[miazmaticdotcom]

I used to keep tropical fish, and I needed a heater to keep it warm.

Now, however, we no longer need that. We can simply use the heat from our overclocked processors to keep our aquarium at balmy, Hawaii-like temperatures.

[heyheyhey]

lmao

im thinking goldfish... they can be at room temp (75*F) and that's plenty cool for just knocking a little heat off the processor (what i want to do), and the resivoir would actually be warmer.... since it would be between my harddrives, and inside meh case, and it would heat up faster because its such a small area, so i believe that this will provide just as good, if not better results, plus the coolness factor of have an aquarium cooling my rig :D

[Marcdaddy]

Hey ENRAGED78 i have a FX51 and on air cooling i can run it upto 2.6GHZ im surprised you need water cooling to reach 2.4 ghz, im running some benchmarks as i type this and will post em, here is my first pass through on 3dmark01 at 2420mhz on air
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=7378525
gonna run one at 2.5 ghz next

[heyheyhey]

did it ever occur that you that maybe you got a special chip?

[Marcdaddy]

Actuallu i never thought off that, im gonna oder a Prometia and see how high it can go, i sold my Vapochill after i was very unimpressed with it.

[heyheyhey]

can you send some of that money meh way? -_-

[Marcdaddy]

Actually im gonna have a Barton 3000XP and a 9800Pro vid card for sale shortly, by next week, and possibly a Asus A7n8x mobo and 512megs of Corsair XMS TwinMos 3200 ram, im gonna part it out cheap.

[heyheyhey]

THEN send the money you get from that to me, right? =D

[heyheyhey]

ok, everythings setup, no fish, and no water cooling yet, but the tank temperature is 78*F.... anyone recommend a nice fish for this temp? preferably under $10 as im not rich... or i could opt for the $.24 goldfish, but ive had them before and they're kind of.... boring =\

now, about the water cooling... im going with a swiftech block (because i need to socket tab the block on), and looking at a danner mag3 so i can submerse it. anyone have any ideas on how to water proof a hole in the side of the tank that im putting the tubing through? thanks for any ideas

[fugu]

um, if you toss fish in there you'll end up with muck growing on the insides of your waterblock and radiator pretty quickly... also, the metal parts probably aren't too healthy for the fish

[miazmaticdotcom]

haha. get a GloFish! a hit at lan parties for sure.

No, um...
ditch the fish idea. fish crap in my watercooler, i think not.

[heyheyhey]

it'll be filtered here guys.... trust me, ive got a 50 gallon tank rated filter in it (its a 10 gallon tamk :p) and i'll make sure and filter the tubing the best that i can... nothings gonna get through, i can assure you that.

[Big Worm]

lol the filter wont stop it all, even if its rated for a 50 gal tank (they are still pretty slow).

No matter what you will get algee buildup in your waterblock and tubes.. You cannot prevent this unless you physically clean out the tubes once a month.

Also like fugu said I wouldnt be running any metal or brass or copper equipment in water with fish.

Another thing, I cant see fish surviving in a 10 gal tank thats watercooling a cpu. Fish get stunned by water temp changes. also they dont like when the waters above 80ish degrees, and running watercooling I bet the water will hit that in no time especially in a 10 gallon tank. I could be wrong though.

Either way rest assured you will get shit buildup no matter what.

[Disarray]

He could let a Plecostomus live in his tubing and eat the stuff that will grow in the tubing and water block.

You could keep breem and bass in the tank. They will do well with the temp variations and will also provide excitement when the breem are eaten by the bass. GG

[heyheyhey]

Originally posted by Big Worm
lol the filter wont stop it all, even if its rated for a 50 gal tank (they are still pretty slow).

No matter what you will get algee buildup in your waterblock and tubes.. You cannot prevent this unless you physically clean out the tubes once a month.

Also like fugu said I wouldnt be running any metal or brass or copper equipment in water with fish.

Another thing, I cant see fish surviving in a 10 gal tank thats watercooling a cpu. Fish get stunned by water temp changes. also they dont like when the waters above 80ish degrees, and running watercooling I bet the water will hit that in no time especially in a 10 gallon tank. I could be wrong though.

Either way rest assured you will get shit buildup no matter what.


im serously doubting that the heat from the cpu would travel out the back of the case, to the aquarium, then still have enough to heat it up. my water temp is at ~72*F right now, and the "safe zone" is 70-80. and whats wrong with copper/metal being in with the fish? im not seeing any danger here....

edit -- oh, and i have lots of free time.... i can clean it out, but i have a filtering system planned out... its pretty complex....

[__Maad__]

Listen to the experts here (i'm not one of them ;) ) and nix the fish idea - or at least modify it a little bit.

Filters won't work and will just impede flow anyway. If you want fish, do what was suggested in another thread and segment your aquarium into two sections with a slab of plexiglas or something and seal the two sections from eachother.. You can combine the two hobbies without any headaches, and with maximum safety and performance for both.

The problem is that no matter what kind of filter you have you will be introducing tons of impurities into your water (you Were planning on using distilled water - right?) which will quickly damage the waterblock and rad components with corrosion, etc. Were you planning on lining the bottom of your aquarium with a whole bunch of little rocks? I hope not, they are rich in minerals.. Fish poop probably is too :) There is no filter you can install in there to prevent MOLECULES of metals from floating around and quickly screwing everything up.

Setting all this aside, assuming that you can get a super duper filter and filter everything out with minimal flow problems, I haven't seen too many people recommend running their watercooling with 100% distilled water and nothing else. Usually you will need some sort of coolant mix to protect your components and increase efficiency. Coolants will of course instantly poison the fish.

Segment the aquarium space into two sections, fill one with nutrient rich rocks and plants and water and fish poop and food or whatever you need to get that jazz going, and then fill the other one with distilled water with coolant. It will look cool and keep your PC cool.

Anyway remember: What do you care about more? A trio of fish that cost you under 10 bux or a host of watercooling components and a PC that cost you upwards of several 100 (or much more)?

[heyheyhey]

i see i see.....

yeah, i think im definatly partitioning (lmao...) the tank up now.... cant be that hard, just a few dollars at lowes and an hour or so to let it set up =)

thanks for explaining that since all i've been getting is "dont do it" or "it'll never work" with out explinations. thanks alot =)

[Disarray]

Why not coil a section of tubing inside the tank similar to how a geothermal heat pump works. This will allow for heat exchange between the water cooling loop and the fish tank without risking cross contamination. In effect replacing the radiator with a submersible heat exchanger. You could coil a section of copper or alluminum pipe or possibly just take a heater core and submerge it near the discarge of the filter system for the fish tank. This would allow for a good flow of water over the coils. And no fish poop clean up. And Plecostomus will keep the coils clean. I know this is the second time i've used Plecostomus but how often do you get to use Plecostomus in daily conversation.

[Big Worm]

Mehh I guess you have it all worked out, go ahead and try it......

:rolleyes:

[__Maad__]

Don't forget to take pictures and post them.

We want to see some tasty fishes swimming around next to a screenshot of a massive overclock ;) ;)

[mtl_hed]

Originally posted by Disarray
Why not coil a section of tubing inside the tank similar to how a geothermal heat pump works. This will allow for heat exchange between the water cooling loop and the fish tank without risking cross contamination. In effect replacing the radiator with a submersible heat exchanger. You could coil a section of copper or alluminum pipe or possibly just take a heater core and submerge it near the discarge of the filter system for the fish tank. This would allow for a good flow of water over the coils. And no fish poop clean up. And Plecostomus will keep the coils clean. I know this is the second time i've used Plecostomus but how often do you get to use Plecostomus in daily conversation.

I think you guys are misunderstanding. There are two problems with the fish water contaminating the coolant fluid(water mix):

1) The algea build up. If the fish are directly living within the coolant liquid, their waste and other particles(off of rocks/plants) will contaminate your waterblocks and radiator.

2) The ionizaion of molecules. If you connect the coolant loop to the fish water via a heat exchanger(copper coil) the ionized water the fish live in(not distilled, unlike the coolant liquid) will corrode the heat exchanger, and possibly ionize the water in the coolant liquid, further causing the waterblocks to corrode.

Like the experts are telling you(I also am not one of them), keep your fish loop and coolant loop COMPLETLY separate. No fish in the coolant and no electrical contact between the to liquids. A plexi glass(or other clear NON-conductive) divider would work perfectly. Just seal it with RTV or another sealant.

[Disarray]

Originally posted by mtl_hed

2) The ionizaion of molecules. If you connect the coolant loop to the fish water via a heat exchanger(copper coil) the ionized water the fish live in(not distilled, unlike the coolant liquid) will corrode the heat exchanger, and possibly ionize the water in the coolant liquid, further causing the waterblocks to corrode.



But what if we built the exchanger out of a non-conductive, non-metalic product. A plastic exchanger could be used. This would keep the liquids seperate, not induce a cathodic effect and provide a way to cool the water cooling the processor.(Although not efficently but with sufficient volume, this could be compensated.)

If the exchanger were constructed of metal, what kind of time frame would be involved before the metal degraded to such a degree that it would fail?

[mtl_hed]

Originally posted by Disarray
But what if we built the exchanger out of a non-conductive, non-metalic product. A plastic exchanger could be used. This would keep the liquids seperate, not induce a cathodic effect and provide a way to cool the water cooling the processor.(Although not efficently but with sufficient volume, this could be compensated.)

If the exchanger were constructed of metal, what kind of time frame would be involved before the metal degraded to such a degree that it would fail?

Plastic and other non-metal, non-electrically conductive materials are generally not very good at conducting heat. A general rule of thumb is, the better the conductor of electricity, the better the conductor of heat.

You would need 10, 100, or more times the length of plastic tubing comapred to copper(or similar conductor).

Its just not feasable to do it this way.

[mtl_hed]

should not have taken me this much time to find it, but:
here (http://230nsc1.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/tables/thrcn.html#c1) is a list of the thermal conductivity values of common substances.

Notice the differences in magnatude between silver/copper and glass or styrofoam.

Since plastic is not on that list, but glass is, I will use it as an example.

Compared to an equal length of tubing the ratio of copper conudctivity to glass conuctivity would be:
385.0 : .8 (in W/m K)
This is equivalent to: 481.25: 1

So (VERY rough) theory tells us that you need over 400 times the amount of glass tubing to conduct the same amount as copper tubing.

Not very effeicent.

[heyheyhey]

ok, i scraped that idea, and came up with a new one :

take a floppy bay resovoir (from danger den) and mount it to the back corner of the aquarium, so i can use 2 different waters, but still save $60 on a raditator.

how about it?

[mtl_hed]

Originally posted by heyheyhey
ok, i scraped that idea, and came up with a new one :

take a floppy bay resovoir (from danger den) and mount it to the back corner of the aquarium, so i can use 2 different waters, but still save $60 on a raditator.

how about it?

The resevoir will conduct very little heat. Regardless of where you mount it or what you mount it to.

You need a radiator(or makeshift rad) made out of metal. You can use a radiator, a heatercore, submerge copper tubing(in DISTILLED water w/o fish), or use a very large run of copper tubing w/o a fan.

Your going to have to spend at last $20 for a heater core at autozone, or save a little by going to the junk yard.

[heyheyhey]

=(

ok

[sKiTz0]

All these cheap shortcuts will get you nowhere. If youre going to do water cooling, do it right. Get a rad or heatercore, and dont worry about sticking fish in it. If youre hell bent on cutting so many corners, it will be a bigger waste of money than just buying the things you need, because youre not going to do much or any better than air cooling.

[Big Worm]

Originally posted by mtl_hed
Since plastic is not on that list, but glass is, I will use it as an example.

Compared to an equal length of tubing the ratio of copper conudctivity to glass conuctivity would be:
385.0 : .8 (in W/m K)
This is equivalent to: 481.25: 1

So (VERY rough) theory tells us that you need over 400 times the amount of glass tubing to conduct the same amount as copper tubing.

Not very effeicent.

Also I think glass actually conducts more heat then plastic, so imagine even worse results using pvc.

[mbcook]

I'm with the posts so far in this thread. You'll kill your block with algae (and fish if you're not careful) so I wouldn't run the water in the tank. I think you should just un coils in the back of the tank or maybe in the gravel to exchange the heat, that way you can have clean water in your computer. You could also exchange the heat outside the tank by running a metal line (like in copper pipe) from both the computer and the fish tank (like the water going through the filtering system) and coiling them together in a large corkscew or two so they have a lot of surface area in common. That should transfer quite a bit of heat for you without taking up tank volume.

[mtl_hed]

Originally posted by mbcook
I'm with the posts so far in this thread. You'll kill your block with algae (and fish if you're not careful) so I wouldn't run the water in the tank. I think you should just un coils in the back of the tank or maybe in the gravel to exchange the heat, that way you can have clean water in your computer. You could also exchange the heat outside the tank by running a metal line (like in copper pipe) from both the computer and the fish tank (like the water going through the filtering system) and coiling them together in a large corkscew or two so they have a lot of surface area in common. That should transfer quite a bit of heat for you without taking up tank volume.

Yes, but the two systems would still be connected by electrically conductive material: the sruface area touching between the two coils. This would cause the walls of the copper tubing to corode rapidly from the ionizaion in the water containing the fish.

Let me put it very blunty:
THE COOLAND LIQUID CANNOT MAKE ELECTRICAL CONDUCT WITH ANY LIQUID CONTAINING FISH. There is no way around this, the ionization in the "fish" water will corrode the radiator/copper coil or the waterblocks if it is all one loop.

The only thing even somewhat close to what you guys are describing that will work is a portion of the aquarium divided off by plexi(or another NON-conductive material) acts as a resivoir. But the fish cant swim in your res and the radiator/copper coil can't swim with your fish.

[fugu]

Originally posted by heyheyhey
im serously doubting that the heat from the cpu would travel out the back of the case, to the aquarium, then still have enough to heat it up. my water temp is at ~72*F right now, and the "safe zone" is 70-80. and whats wrong with copper/metal being in with the fish? im not seeing any danger here....

edit -- oh, and i have lots of free time.... i can clean it out, but i have a filtering system planned out... its pretty complex....

the copper will dissolve into the tank and kill the fish. that's why you're not supposed to throw coins in fishponds.

even if you have a really strong filter, you're going to get stuff in your water lines because a filter isn't designed to take out all the organic particles in the water. a healthy fish tank has a certain amount of bacteria and algae in the water

[zer0signal667]

Originally posted by mtl_hed
Yes, but the two systems would still be connected by electrically conductive material: the sruface area touching between the two coils. This would cause the walls of the copper tubing to corode rapidly from the ionizaion in the water containing the fish.

Let me put it very blunty:
THE COOLAND LIQUID CANNOT MAKE ELECTRICAL CONDUCT WITH ANY LIQUID CONTAINING FISH. There is no way around this, the ionization in the "fish" water will corrode the radiator/copper coil or the waterblocks if it is all one loop.


Can you explain this in scientific terms? If you are suggesting that galvanic corrosion will take place, then I don't see where the other metal in the galvanic couple is. Sure, a layer of oxide will form under the proper conditions, but it's going to be hard to actively corrode the copper in water that would be suitable for fish to live in. This would also no affect the inside surface of the tube where the coolant was in contact.

[mopho manners]

i think it would be cool to just glue a 10 gallon tank in half with glass then run the back half as a res and the front half as the aquariam it would be very hard to tell that it was partitond unless they where looking for it and you will get the thermals off the front 5 gal and clean lines with live fish ..

[retardedchicken]

you could make a seperate plexiglass cage for your fish which is still inside of the aquarium but wont mix with the cooling water

whatever you do, just make sure to put some pics up for us so we can see your fishy swimming around in your rig:D

[NewBlackDak]

The animal rights activists would probably have a field day with this!

I think it's a VERY bad idea to add fish to this. Aside from the electrolitic properties, and copper poisining, they're not as tolerant as we are to temperature changes. This will keep them stressed all the time. You shut down the machine, and the water gets too cold. Start up a game, and it gets too hot. I think enraged78's is good, and the only change I would make is to try a spraybar from a canister filter setup. I think it would would allow the water to cool better, but I could be completely wrong.

[heyheyhey]

ok, would this work?

floppy bay res in the fish tank ==> tubing ==> copper tubing outside the tank, maybe even in the case ==> tubing ==> pump ==> block ==> res


BTW===the reason im doing this, is well, to say i did it, and there is almost NO space in the case whatsoever, its very craped as it is now.

i may just make a few copper spirals and whatnot, and just set them on the ground, or run them around the back of my desk or something.. i dunno...

[enraged78]

Originally posted by Marcdaddy
Hey ENRAGED78 i have a FX51 and on air cooling i can run it upto 2.6GHZ im surprised you need water cooling to reach 2.4 ghz, im running some benchmarks as i type this and will post em, here is my first pass through on 3dmark01 at 2420mhz on air
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=7378525
gonna run one at 2.5 ghz next

Thanks for the reply. The numbers I've got out of this thing are the same on air cooling as they are on water. The chip just does not want to run stable at 2.5 Ghz. By stable, I mean being able to run at 100% CPU utilization for days on end. Watercooling didn't really help me out on this chip. It did lower my temps to 82 Degrees, though, and max's out at 104 after running for about a week. I've had it up to 2.65Ghz before, but the stability just isn't there. Heat really isn't much of an issue, as the internal diode always tells me that the chip is cold. Maybe I just have a chip that only wants to run at 2.4. Oh, and I've tried just about every voltage range I can get my hands on, and have had the chip up to 1.750 volts before, but it doesn't help the stability. If anything it just got less stable with any voltage above 1.675 volts. I don't think that SOI likes voltage as much as the old fabs did.

Matt.

[enraged78]

Originally posted by mopho manners
i think it would be cool to just glue a 10 gallon tank in half with glass then run the back half as a res and the front half as the aquariam it would be very hard to tell that it was partitond unless they where looking for it and you will get the thermals off the front 5 gal and clean lines with live fish ..

This is a great idea. Probably be the easiest to implement too....

Matt.

[ZeMike]

Sorry for reviving this thread.

I had a similar idea - to use an aquarium for cooling my PC. I have a 75 gal (300l) tank which is currently heated by a 300W heater.

My idea is to insert an aluminium tube coil in the tank to act as a tank water / PC coolant heat exchanger.

So basically when the PC will be ON, the tank will be heated by the PC (yeah, free heating for my fish!)

Aluminium is a safe material for aquariums. Are there any caveats?

[Gillbot]

Sorry for reviving this thread.

I had a similar idea - to use an aquarium for cooling my PC. I have a 75 gal (300l) tank which is currently heated by a 300W heater.

My idea is to insert an aluminium tube coil in the tank to act as a tank water / PC coolant heat exchanger.

So basically when the PC will be ON, the tank will be heated by the PC (yeah, free heating for my fish!)

Aluminium is a safe material for aquariums. Are there any caveats?

Mixing copper and aluminum in your cooling loop is asking for flames when it comes to watercooling.

[ZeMike]

Thanks for the warning on AlCu. Are there radiators with copper pipes and long aluminium fins? I don't want copper to contact water in the aquarium.