LG 55EA9800 OLED 120hz

deasnutz said:
http://www.displaymate.com/LG_OLED_TV_ShootOut_1.htm#Response_time

Anyone else read this? Insanely expensive, yes, but promising to see this getting manufactured. 120hz and zero motion blur make it look like the perfect gaming display.
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It is a great article, but there is a terminology minor error in Raymond's article, however. He is a highly respected person and knows what he is talking about, but needs a minor modification of the terminology, in my opinion -- since the LG OLED has more motion blur than a plasma display. It's already confirmed by several sources (japanese scientists, HDGuru, myself, and others). So, I've sent emails to Raymond to point this out.

Hello Raymond:

There is a minor error in one of your articles.
The phraseology "motion blur" should be changed to "transition time" or "ghosting":
http://www.displaymate.com/LG_OLED_TV_ShootOut_1.htm#Response_time

Although the transition time is excellent, the LG OLED still has motion blur caused by sample-and-hold, especially when we're doing fast motions (e.g. window dragging, scrolling, etc). There is still some sample-and-hold motion blur on the OLED's. Also, "ghosting" (remnants from previous refreshes) is the word that should be ideally used instead of "motion blur" (includes sample-and-hold, which the OLD still has).

Response time (based on MPRT measurement -- Motion Picture Response Time) is different from transition time (0.1ms). Several OLED's with ~0.1ms transitions actually have at least 8ms-16ms of sample-and-hold, creating an high MPRT measurement from things like MotionMaster and other MPRT measurement cameras.

HDTVTest said the LG55EA9800 has motion blur as bad as a 60Hz TV (120Hz TV). This is seen in moving resolution test patterns. We're not talking about the ghosting (correctly described and photographed by you) but the sample-and-hold motion blur.

For example, try viewing this motion animation on the OLED:
http://www.testufo.com/#test=eyetracking

Also, I have found a way to do inexpensive pursuit camera, using existing consumer cameras:
http://www.blurbusters.com/motion-tests/pursuit-camera/
Only a $150 low-friction camera rail and a consumer camera is now needed, because of a new technique of verifying tracking accuracy.

Sincerely,
Mark Rejhon
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On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 1:08 PM, Mark Rejhon <[email protected]> wrote:
>> HDTVTest said the LG55EA9800 has motion blur as bad as a 60Hz TV (120Hz TV).

Apologies, I meant HDGuru:
http://hdguru.com/lg-55ea9800-oled-hdtv-reviewed/

Also, you may want to see this japanese scientific stuff:
Journal of Vision also found that the Sony Trimaster OLED has an MPRT of 7.5 milliseconds:
http://www.journalofvision.org/content/13/7/6.full

Figure 19 has the following image:
oled-response-1024x440.jpg


Also I have earlier written an article about OLED motion blur:
http://www.blurbusters.com/faq/oled-motion-blur

It is very important to distinguish the terminology "motion blur" (which can occur on instant-response displays, due to the sample-and-hold effect), and the terminology "ghosting". Some scientists would like to call you out on the use of the "motion blur" terminology.

OLED is an excellent technology but it still has more motion blur than many plasmas -- due to the sample-and-hold effect. OLED still has more motion blur than the new interpolation-free low-lag "Motionflow Impulse" found on certain Sony HDTV's. It does have more ghosting than OLED, but less motion blur than the LG OLED. So you see, how important it is for DisplayMate to be careful about the use of the "motion blur" versus "ghosting" terminology, because these can actually improve independently of each other.

Thanks,
Mark Rejhon
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I have no knocks on Raymond and I highly respect him & his article is quite correct (when reading his "motion blur" terminology as "ghosting"). There is definitely zero ghosting on an OLED -- zero bleed between refreshes.

For writing to the (gradually-becoming-increasingly-educated) public, he will need to carefully make sure the phraseology now accomodates the sample-and-hold motion blur, which is a different cause of motion blur than the panel's own ghosting (LCD refreshes bleeding between refreshes). Stationary photography do not capture sample-and-hold motion blur, it only captures ghosting. Pursuit camera is needed for objective measurement of sample-and-hold motion blur.

Since many other sources have already confirmed OLED motion blur (japanese scientists, HDGuru, myself, and others), reviews needs to now recognize the sample-and-hold effect found during flickerfree / long-duration flickers / long-persistence.

Current OLED displays flickers with a persistence of about ~8 milliseconds (give or take) per refresh at this moment, according to these measurements already made. This creates 8ms of persistence (sample-and-hold), leading to more human perceived motion blur (confirmed in moving-photo patterns such as http://www.testufo.com/#test=photo ...) than those found on known ultra-high-efficiency strobe backlights (e.g. nVidia LightBoost strobe backlight, Eizo's FDF2405W strobe backlight, and Sony's Game Mode Motionflow Impulse strobe backlight). There is still less ghosting on OLED, but far more motion blur on the OLED.

Although pixel transition time (0.1ms) is fast, the pixel hold time is long (8ms) -- aka long persistence on these early OLED's. This creates eye-tracking-based motion blur, the same type of motion blur you see at http://www.testufo.com/#test=eyetracking .... This is still a problem on OLED's. To measure tracking-based motion blur, DisplayMate should ideally begin using a pursuit camera, since today is the modern era where pixel transition time (e.g. 0.1ms) is no longer the cause of motion blur, and we're hitting the limits of static-camera photography.

That said, the terminology needs to be fixed in his article.
So, DisplayMate's article is correct when the terminology "motion blur" is replaced with "ghosting".
 
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Awesome, thanks for chiming in.

So, can a manufacturer overcome the pixel persistence with some type of motion processing like found in current lcd/plasma tv's?

Thanks
 
deasnutz said:
So, can a manufacturer overcome the pixel persistence with some type of motion processing like found in current lcd/plasma tv's?
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Yes. It's solvable by many techniques.

However, I'm just pointing out that the LG55EA9800 isn't a motion blur champ (yet). It can have have amazing color and clean looking motion (no ghosting, no plasma noise, no posterization) but it still has the motion blur from sample-and-hold. Eyes used to CRT motion clarity, will definitely see the motion blur on this LG OLED during fast panning motion (such as TestUFO Moving Photo Test)
 
Mark Rejhon said:
Yes. It's solvable by many techniques.

However, I'm just pointing out that the LG55EA9800 isn't a motion blur champ (yet). It can have have amazing color and clean looking motion (no ghosting, no plasma noise, no posterization) but it still has the motion blur from sample-and-hold. Eyes used to CRT motion clarity, will definitely see the motion blur on this LG OLED during fast panning motion (such as TestUFO Moving Photo Test)
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But there's definitely less motion blur already on these first generation OLEDs than the best 120Hz LCD's out there so I'm not complaining.
 
Leopardi said:
But there's definitely less motion blur already on these first generation OLEDs than the best 120Hz LCD's out there so I'm not complaining.
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Not against a strobe backlight LCD, including:

- nVidia's LightBoost (1.4ms to 2.4ms of strobe length)
- Sony's interpolation-free Game Mode Motionflow Impulse (about 4ms strobe length)
- Eizo's new 240Hz VA LCD (maximum likely ~4ms strobe length)

Compared to these, most first-generation OLED's have about 7.5 to 16ms of MPRT, which is about 2x to 4x more motion blur than strobe-backlight LCD's. See 60Hz vs 120Hz vs LightBoost.

There is more ghosting (faint sharp image) on these LCD's, but they have less motion blur than a few of the first-generation OLED's.
 
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