Windows 7 One version petition

[iansilv]

http://petitionspot.com/petitions/windows7ONEversion

I think everyone should sign it.

[Joe Average]

I gotta say, that's a bit ridiculous... and it'll never happen. Wheels are in motion, development is nearly finished, and it's way way too late to get Microsoft to throw the brakes on now and stick with a single SKU. Contracts are signed, etc etc...

6 months ago this might have mattered, but not anymore.

But just for the record, I wouldn't have signed off on it back then either...

[anss123]

Meh, never had trouble with multiple version.

Ultimate: Has everything.
Home Premium: Lacks a little
Home Basic: Crippled version
Business/everything else: Don't care

Not too difficult :)

Earlier versions has multiple editions too: Pro/Home/Server/x64/Media Center, trailing back all the way to Windows 286 and 386.

[DeaconFrost]

For Vista, as an example, Microsoft has had a chart up, clearly showing the differences from even before Vista was released. If a person can't do the research themselves, then it is their own fault if they are missing features they need. How many times have we seen a "What Vista should I get" thread? It isn't Microsoft's job to make up for laziness.

[Demon10000]

I wouldn't want to see only one sku. If there was just one, then it would cost too much. They need to have three basic skews --

Home
Business
Ultimate

[DeaconFrost]

I'd agree with that. One version for Home (for the average joe, not Joe Average), one for Business, and one for both worlds.

[Joe Average]

I'd agree with that. One version for Home (for the average joe, not Joe Average), one for Business, and one for both worlds.

Ok, I tip my hat to you for that one... ;)

[Inf0]

I'd agree with that. One version for Home, one for Business, and one for both worlds.

This.

[heatlesssun]

If you are too stupid to firgure out the different versions maybe you should just use Linux. Only one version of that right?:p

[Demon10000]

If you are too stupid to firgure out the different versions maybe you should just use Linux. Only one version of that right?:p

I don't know that I'd call it stupidity... they did go a little overboard with Vista. And when you consider the average person is going to either walk into Best Buy and buy retail, , or get it over the phone when they're ordering their new computer -- talking to either sales force is just confusing since they don't really know what they're talking about.

True story : last computer I ordered from dell was basically an internet kiosk. I asked to verify that it had an onboard nic, and the lady told me that it wasn't fast enough to go on the internet and I would have to upgrade to the more expensive model to do that. When I told her I would take my chances, she informed me that my warranty would be void if I tried to use the internet on it. Imagine what gets told to people when they're just buying an OS and not a whole PC!

[Gott]

I said it before and I'll say it again:

Online petitions, accomplishing nothing since 1995.

[heatlesssun]

I don't know that I'd call it stupidity... they did go a little overboard with Vista. And when you consider the average person is going to either walk into Best Buy and buy retail, , or get it over the phone when they're ordering their new computer -- talking to either sales force is just confusing since they don't really know what they're talking about.

True story : last computer I ordered from dell was basically an internet kiosk. I asked to verify that it had an onboard nic, and the lady told me that it wasn't fast enough to go on the internet and I would have to upgrade to the more expensive model to do that. When I told her I would take my chances, she informed me that my warranty would be void if I tried to use the internet on it. Imagine what gets told to people when they're just buying an OS and not a whole PC!

Perhaps, I guess I'm so close to this stuff that its hard for me to discern what's simple and what's not for the average consumer. But realistically for the home user you only had three options, Home Basic, Home Premium and Ultimate and I think its pretty clear what the differences are. I've explained to many people and everyone seemed to have gotten in a couple of minutes.

I think that maybe that could do away with Home Basic and just have Home and Ultimate. There's no need to sell the enterprise networking stuff to home users that will never connect to an enterprise network I think.

[BX_TECH_GOD]

I wouldn't want to see only one sku. If there was just one, then it would cost too much. They need to have three basic skews --

Home
Business
Ultimate

I agree :D

[Met-AL]

Who wrote that petition?

This led to confusion and frustration amongst your users.

Having a choice to what you buy is a good thing. I don't to pay for crap I don't plan on using, sell me a version that has features close to what I need and I will pay for that, thanks.

Premium is my choice and I am glad I have that choice instead of having to buy a single "Ultimate" version full of features I would never use.

I guess maybe I don't confuse easily unlike the author of this petition?

[Jordan1]

How hard is it to figure out what you need? But, I would agree with Demon10000, Home, Business, and Ultimate would be a quite the simple setup.

[bigdogchris]

I prefer the Home/Pro/Server method of XP.

[bonsai]

I'd prefer the option to buy a cheaper, stripped down, "barebones" version with out any useless apps preinstalled and/or the option to download and install them from Microsoft. I'm not holding my breath.

[heatlesssun]

I'd prefer the option to buy a cheaper, stripped down, "barebones" version with out any useless apps preinstalled and/or the option to download and install them from Microsoft. I'm not holding my breath.

Don't know where you've been that that's what is going on with Windows 7. No mail, or movie maker, photo viewer, etc. Lot's of people are complaining about it actually.

[bonsai]

Don't know where you've been that that's what is going on with Windows 7. No mail, or movie maker, photo viewer, etc. Lot's of people are complaining about it actually.

I've still got an entire start menu full of programs I'll never use on my copy of Win 7.

[devil22]

The versions are SO not confusing. If you are confused, simply get 'ultimate,' it has everything so you won't have any problems at all. If you think you could pay less and be just as well off, then it's up to YOU to do a little research to find that out. Damn these people are lazy SOBs. MS also has anytime upgrade, so you don't have to buy two copies of Vista if you get Home Premium for instance and decide you want ultimate, you just pay the difference and get Ultimate. MS has made this as easy and convenient as anyone could want and these idiots still complain.

[OmegaAvenger]

The versions are SO not confusing. If you are confused, simply get 'ultimate,' it has everything so you won't have any problems at all. If you think you could pay less and be just as well off, then it's up to YOU to do a little research to find that out. Damn these people are lazy SOBs. MS also has anytime upgrade, so you don't have to buy two copies of Vista if you get Home Premium for instance and decide you want ultimate, you just pay the difference and get Ultimate. MS has made this as easy and convenient as anyone could want and these idiots still complain.

Thats what idiots do.
When people can barely figure out how to use word, and get thrown for a loop when they find out its not a part of windows it self (true story, I have to explain this every day)
have to have help form thier kids to use iTunes to fill thier ipods with mp3s, etc,
the last thing they want to choose is what version of windows they want.
I think the 3 skus is better than like 7 or 8.

Also people complain, if they cant find something simple to complain about they will dig until they find something to complain about. It whats they do. I have so many stories of the stupid shit I hear people complain about all day I could sit here for DAYS and still have some material left over.

[Thuleman]

http://petitionspot.com/petitions/windows7ONEversion

I think everyone should sign it.

I think someone should make a petition to only sell one brand and type of car anymore. I'd sign that.

[FoxhoundOp]

I love W7 and Vista as much as anyone else, but I think the Microsoft fanboyism in this particular subforum has gotten out of hand. Everytime someone brings up something pertaining to Windows, they get shot down, called idiots, etc. Chill out motherfuckers.

[aFive]

I prefer different SKU's actually. Every major retailer had a huge chart for Vista displaying what each version had/lacked. Msoft's site still has that info if anybody is willing to do 5 sec research.

While having Ultimate makes my e-penis feel big, it doesn't really matter. Come Win7, I will probably get something that simply fits my needs and save few hundred dollars. There are those that need every feature Ultimate has and those who simply want to game on their system and utilize the latest and greatest.

While i do not agree with the theme choises in home basic, I think other SKU's should be kept intact. Why should I pay extra $$$ to have features I will never use?

[rampantandroid]

Research required for Vista's versions was as simple as going to:

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-vista/compare-editions/default.aspx

(go to windows.com, products -> Vista, compare versions. WASN'T THAT HARD?!)

or looking at the damned retail box, which also compared versions for you.

Not many people needed Ultimate. Many still don't. Home Premium is USUALLY sufficient for the average end used.

[Met-AL]

Don't know where you've been that that's what is going on with Windows 7. No mail, or movie maker, photo viewer, etc. Lot's of people are complaining about it actually.

I hardly use any of the built in applications anymore.

Don't use mail, I use gmail.google.com instead.
Don't use Movie Maker, I like my movies in a format other than .wmv. I use Vegas 8 instead.
Don't use photo viewer, I use an online photo album.

I do use Paint though. The one in Vista actually has the exact amount of built in functionality to meet my simple needs in a graphic editing program.

[bonsai]

Microsoft fails again:

http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/03/windows-7-skus-announced-yes-your-worst-nightmare-has-come-to/

The following will be the actual new SKUs for the OS:

* Windows 7 Starter
* Windows 7 Home Basic (for emerging markets)
* Windows 7 Home Premium
* Windows 7 Professional
* Windows 7 Enterprise
* Windows 7 Ultimate


This information has been confirmed by Microsoft... who never listens to us.

[rampantandroid]

Microsoft fails again:

http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/03/windows-7-skus-announced-yes-your-worst-nightmare-has-come-to/

That's the same as Vista (Professional was Business for Vista) - which I see no issues with in the long run. Combining Basic & Premium would have been nice, but otherwise, it's fine...

[requiemnoise]

Here is my input on this...
1. Starter isn't needed. It is easier to lower the price for certain language versions
2. Home basic - People need this for netbook market.
3. Home Premium - Required
4. Professional - Required for business
5. Enterprise - No. There should be one version for business.
6. Ultimate - People need this for hobbyists

[Jon55]

http://petitionspot.com/petitions/windows7ONEversion

I think everyone should sign it.


Yeah, online petitions. Those totally always work. :rolleyes:

[Met-AL]

Microsoft fails again:

http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/03/windows-7-skus-announced-yes-your-worst-nightmare-has-come-to/

Why is that a fail? Seriously, why is having a choice to what features we can buy a failure? Are you a socialist and we all should have the same OS, the same hardware, the same color house, the same car, etc?

[Met-AL]

Here is my input on this...
4. Professional - Required for business
5. Enterprise - No. There should be one version for business.

Are not these two the same feature set, but #4 is a per machine license and #5 is a VLK? If so, sounds good to me.

[requiemnoise]

Are not these two the same feature set, but #4 is a per machine license and #5 is a VLK? If so, sounds good to me.

It would just easier to rewrite the license manager for the business editions. Small to mid companies might want to switch to a site license in the future.

[Joe Average]

Windows 7 Home and Windows 7 Professional are all they actually need. The Enterprise stuff I don't even consider something that should be discussed for the average Joe (not me, I assure you). But the XP-style two version concept is still the best, and I would hope Microsoft would have realized this but... alas... that does not appear to be the case.

I wish they would put the more business-centric items into Professional, however - BitLocker, and some other stuff that should have been in Vista Business to start with. If they can do that, make Windows 7 Professional the OS it truly should be, then I'll be somewhat satisfied.

It's not like I'll be paying for any of this stuff anyway, but even so... :)

[Litfod]

Yeah, online petitions. Those totally always work.

lol my thoughts exactly.
I don't care how many versions there are, but I'd love to see them ditch the 32bit editions. I know, I'll start an online petition.

[heatlesssun]

Three versions, Home, Business and Ultimate. That would be clean and nice. That said I think that with netbooks they do need to make a distinction there, Netbook Home and Netbook Business. The Netbook versions could be just a little lighter with no Media Center on the Home edition. So five versions that have a clear meaning and purpose. As long as it CLEAR for what environment each version serves, I don't see the problem.

The main thing to do is to keep the pricing down. A $400 Ultimate (though anyone how pays retail is a nut) would be very bad PR especially considering the economic environment.

[heatlesssun]

lol my thoughts exactly.
I don't care how many versions there are, but I'd love to see them ditch the 32bit editions. I know, I'll start an online petition.

They just can't ditch 32bit editions. For one, what about netbooks? 32bit just isn't going away soon no matter how much we may want it to.

[crawford60]

There is a decent writeup about this over at cnet. Apparently Microsoft is planning on 80% of Windows 7 sales to be of the Home Premium/Buisness variety.

Windows 7 starter will be severly limited, and Home Basic, is only for "emerging markets".

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-10155193-75.html

[Met-AL]

They just can't ditch 32bit editions. For one, what about netbooks? 32bit just isn't going away soon no matter how much we may want it to.
I fail to see what 32 bit has to do with netbooks. The Atom is a 64bit CPU, so is the Via Nano.

In fact, all CPU's currently on the market today have x86-64.

[requiemnoise]

I fail to see what 32 bit has to do with netbooks. The Atom is a 64bit CPU.

Sorry. This isn't true. There are different ATOM chips out there.

[Met-AL]

Sorry. This isn't true. There are different ATOM chips out there.

Right, the N and Z series aren't 64bit. But the 230 and 330 are 64bit and they are the current models. So, if a netbook manufacturer wants to sell a netbook with Win7 on it, they can use a 230 or a 330 and 64bit Win7.

[requiemnoise]

Right, the N and Z series aren't 64bit. But the 230 and 330 are 64bit and they are the current models. So, if a netbook manufacturer wants to sell a netbook with Win7 on it, they can use a 230 or a 330 and 64bit Win7.

Most netbooks are 32bit. They use N270 and N280.

[heatlesssun]

Right, the N and Z series aren't 64bit. But the 230 and 330 are 64bit and they are the current models. So, if a netbook manufacturer wants to sell a netbook with Win7 on it, they can use a 230 or a 330 and 64bit Win7.

The 230 and 330 are not targeted at the netbook segment. These are low cost machines typically and Intel doesn't make a lot of money on them. Why add features that you're not making money on that nobody needs? 32 bit is here to stay for a while.

[lmnopc]

I hardly use any of the built in applications anymore.

Don't use mail, I use gmail.google.com instead.
Don't use Movie Maker, I like my movies in a format other than .wmv. I use Vegas 8 instead.
Don't use photo viewer, I use an online photo album.

I do use Paint though. The one in Vista actually has the exact amount of built in functionality to meet my simple needs in a graphic editing program.

I wish Windows had a "customize" option during install to pick components I want.

[heatlesssun]

I wish Windows had a "customize" option during install to pick components I want.

That's not supported in the GUI installer I don't think but you can setup automated installs to do this I believe.

[Lepard]

I wish Windows had a "customize" option during install to pick components I want.

It did and people complained that it "took to long".

[requiemnoise]

That's not supported in the GUI installer I don't think but you can setup automated installs to do this I believe.

It can be done if they use a ram disk to hold configurations before it formats the disk. Windows can ask all the questions at the beginning. That is how some Linux distros do it.

[DeathFromBelow]

I think they should drop the home basic version, but otherwise its fine.

Home Premium - Everything a home user would need
Business - Everything a business user would need
Ultimate - Everything + extra content like the old "Plus Pack" addons.

What's so difficult about it?

[vsboxerboy]

That's how it is -

While there ARE more versions, access to all but 3 are going to be limited so in the real world all you see is home premium, professional, and ultimate. The rest are on limited access to special markets.

source:

http://lifehacker.com/5145732/windows-7-version-lineup-simplified-to-three

[brom42]

I prefer the Home/Pro/Server method of XP.

You mean the Home/Pro/Server/Tablet/Media Center method of XP. ;)

[heatlesssun]

You mean the Home/Pro/Server/Tablet/Media Center method of XP. ;)

There was no XP server and you never could buy Tablet and Media Center editions in retail. there's absolutely nothing at all that's confusing about this product line up for the average consumer, its just like XP, Home or Pro.

The one thing that does surprise me is that I thought for sure that they'd have netbook edition of some sort. People were saying that Microsoft was practically giving XP away for netbooks to compete with Linux. I guess the issue is if MS charges full price for a license for netbooks, and the number I've always heard was that a Windows license if like $50 for PC makers, with that hurt them in the netbook space. Mary Jo Folley on Zdnet was blogging about this and it is an interesting question.

It could if the Linux version of the machine is $50 less unless Microsoft thinks that its no big deal. The average consumer is going to want Windows 7 over Linux but are they willing to pay about 20% more or so for the privileged?

There was an interview of Ubuntu's CEO about this a few weeks back and I guess he was thinking that if Microsoft charges standard prices for Windows 7 on netbooks that it give Ubuntu an edge which does make sense.

[requiemnoise]

People were saying that Microsoft was practically giving XP away for netbooks to compete with Linux. I guess the issue is if MS charges full price for a license for netbooks, and the number I've always heard was that a Windows license if like $50 for PC makers, with that hurt them in the netbook space.

It is more like $20 to $30. No way 7 is going to be priced that low for an OS that will have 7 to 10yrs of patch support. Netbook for 7 will be priced least $60 more. It makes a big difference when the few netbooks are going to be target at $220. Also, Intel not allowing Nvidia to play this game will hurt MS too. These netbooks will have difficulty doing Aero.

[YeuEmMaiMai]

http://petitionspot.com/petitions/windows7ONEversion

I think everyone should sign it.


i think you're nuts....................

[heatlesssun]

It is more like $20 to $30. No way 7 is going to be priced that low for an OS that will have 7 to 10yrs of patch support. Netbook for 7 will be priced least $60 more. It makes a big difference when the few netbooks are going to be target at $220. Also, Intel not allowing Nvidia to play this game will hurt MS too. These netbooks will have difficulty doing Aero.

Like I said a while back I was only going on what Ubuntu's CEO said about XP pricing possibly being below that of Linux. He said it not me. If it was BS then is was BS. I'm just saying what he said. I don't know one way other the other.

What are they going to charge for the netbook licenses? I doubt it will be any different than what they charge for any other platform. I don't know and I guess no one really knows how this will affect sales of Windows 7 netbooks. Obviously more expensive isn't going to help sales, but how much it will hurt is open for debate. But judging by how fast Windows XP got adopted it may not be that bad. 7 might even help Microsoft's bottom line in the netbook area. Lose maybe a few sales but get a much better profit margin per unit. That's my guess at how they are looking at it for now. Maybe they'll have to rethink it once the numbers come in.

As for netbooks and Aero, all the stuff I've seen about netbook performance and Aero has been very positive. Pretty much all of the major netbooks are using the Intel 950 and it has no problems with Aero from any account that I've read.

[Saggy]

Having many version is not good nor bad for people who pay for the stuff, they can research and see what fit them best and not over spend, but you will over spend if you always buy the top of the line since then the cost is not offset by basic users that would otherwise in a single version.

However I hate this because I have not paid(transparently) for an OS since, include, XP. I want the ultimate version, and I can almost guarantee you that the ultimate version will NOT be on msdnaa, maybe professional.
If this was a one version deal, I can almost be certain what they will give me for free, well, fees are kind of in the tuition already just that I don't see it.

[heatlesssun]

Having many version is not good nor bad for people who pay for the stuff, they can research and see what fit them best and not over spend, but you will over spend if you always buy the top of the line since then the cost is not offset by basic users that would otherwise in a single version.

However I hate this because I have not paid(transparently) for an OS since, include, XP. I want the ultimate version, and I can almost guarantee you that the ultimate version will NOT be on msdnaa, maybe professional.
If this was a one version deal, I can almost be certain what they will give me for free, well, fees are kind of in the tuition already just that I don't see it.

Was Vista Ultimate on MSDNAA? It should be because I'm sure it will be on regular MSDN. i thought the only difference with AA was the pricing and that it had to go to an educational institution.

[bonsai]

Was Vista Ultimate on MSDNAA? It should be because I'm sure it will be on regular MSDN. i thought the only difference with AA was the pricing and that it had to go to an educational institution.

It depends on whatever version the school wants to pay for. My school had Vista Business on it's MSDNAA.

[heatlesssun]

It depends on whatever version the school wants to pay for. My school had Vista Business on it's MSDNAA.

Thanks that's quite different from the regular MSDN as its the developer tools that change with each level, the OS and apps are the same for each level.

[Klob]

The basic version only allows three apps to be run at once. How fucking stupid is that? Putting false limitation into your OS so you can make it look like good value is BS. Anyone who buys that version over just getting free Linux has shit for brains.

[bonsai]

How fucking stupid is that?

It's actually quite a brilliant way for MS to make moar moenyz! For only a small $100 upgrade you too can have transparent gui and open up 4, yes count em 4, different apps at once!!

[DeathFromBelow]

The basic version only allows three apps to be run at once. How fucking stupid is that? Putting false limitation into your OS so you can make it look like good value is BS. Anyone who buys that version over just getting free Linux has shit for brains.

You're confusing Vista Home Basic with Vista Starter. Starter is a super cheap version only sold in low income emerging markets.

Home Basic is like Home Premium without Media Center, DVD maker, or Aero Glass/transparency effects. It really only exists because Intel wanted their older graphics chips to be Vista capable.

[Klob]

I'm not even talking about Vista. I was talking about Windows7. Still, I wouldn't pay Microsoft one penny for such a crippled version and would just install Linux for free.

[jimmyb]

Right, the N and Z series aren't 64bit. But the 230 and 330 are 64bit and they are the current models. So, if a netbook manufacturer wants to sell a netbook with Win7 on it, they can use a 230 or a 330 and 64bit Win7.

Or MS can sell a 32bit Win7 too.

You're not a socialist are you? We shouldn't all have to have the same number of bits.

[sparks]

yep the bs model they did on vista sucked...just more money and more trash installed on your system.
Install ONLY what I paid for.

1 version.....2 max business and home. FULL network and media in both.
ALL video and support for games...no more of this bs microcrap

AND NO DRM...you are an OS not a spycop

[DeaconFrost]

AND NO DRM...you are an OS not a spycop
It is a goddamn shame, after all this time, this point still needs to be explained. Microsoft doesn't have much of a choice to incorporate DRM. Had they chosen not too, you wouldn't be able to play back or record the various forms of media that you do. DRM is not Microsoft's doing. If you want to get your panties all in a bunch over DRM, at least take the time to understand who's forcing it on you and why.

I'd like to start a petition that DRM should stand for Don't Read Much.....because the people who bitch about it and blame Microsoft simply don't D.R.M.

[DeathFromBelow]

yep the bs model they did on vista sucked...just more money and more trash installed on your system.
Install ONLY what I paid for.
Huh?

1 version.....2 max business and home.
The Vista choices are practically identical to the model they used with XP:

-Starter is only bundled with extremely low-end machines in developing countries. (Same as XP Starter Edition)
-Home Basic for budget systems (Comparable to XP Home)
-Home Premium for home users (Comparable to XP MCE)
-Business for small/medium business (Comparable to XP Pro)
-Enterprise for large scale deployments (Identical to business, just a different activation system)
-Ultimate for all the features of Home Premium and Business + Extras (Comparable to XP MCE with the XP Plus Pack)

FULL network and media in both.
ALL video and support for games...no more of this bs microcrap
Uh, they do. The home versions lack a few specific features that are in the Business version that home users (typically) would never use, like domains.

AND NO DRM...you are an OS not a spycop
:rolleyes:

Microsoft didn't put DRM in Vista. They put in the framework necessary to support Blu-Ray playback. The DRM is on the disks and in the playback software.

[heatlesssun]

It is a goddamn shame, after all this time, this point still needs to be explained. Microsoft doesn't have much of a choice to incorporate DRM. Had they chosen not too, you wouldn't be able to play back or record the various forms of media that you do. DRM is not Microsoft's doing. If you want to get your panties all in a bunch over DRM, at least take the time to understand who's forcing it on you and why.

I'd like to start a petition that DRM should stand for Don't Read Much.....because the people who bitch about it and blame Microsoft simply don't D.R.M.


Thanks for pointing this out. A lot of the DRM that was put into Windows was explicitly for the point of supporting BluRay and Windows is still the OS that has official support for it I think, not sure about Macs. You see a lot of Windows laptops coming with BluRay drives these days.

Personally I'm getting a little wary of people who do nothing but attack DRM. I'm not a big fan of it and at the same time a lot of people are just not going to pay for anything no matter the price.

[Proteos]

Good luck. This won't do jack.

[sparks]

Why does everyone defend every damn thing these companies do.

Starter is only bundled with extremely low-end machines in developing countries. (Same as XP Starter Edition)
-Home Basic for budget systems (Comparable to XP Home)
-Home Premium for home users (Comparable to XP MCE)
-Business for small/medium business (Comparable to XP Pro)
-Enterprise for large scale deployments (Identical to business, just a different activation system)
-Ultimate for all the features of Home Premium and Business + Extras (Comparable to XP MCE with the XP Plus Pack)

******this was PURE BS
and most of these were added later.. at first there was xp pro and xp home.
that is more than enough.
NO NOT WITH VISTA
we had more BS than we could stand and OH if you are a gamer you need the most expensive version. WHY? M O N E Y...
More confusion, then when you want something you will pay again for some small thing.

DRM was incorporated into the os. DO NOT say it wasn't
fine do it that way....BUT let the co's dictating what is in and out pay for it...vista should have been free to the home users and the co's adding all kinds of BS should have been paying for it.

I do understand your statement of the co's and not Microsoft on some of this stuff. My buddy plays blu disk on his computer with a PAID version of his player. You would not belive the BS he goes thru every time he inserts a disk. So if they force the co making the player to jump thru hoops you can bet your ass they are telling (paying) ms to do the same.

AND DO NOT call me a thief because I feel this is wrong.
Hell I purchased an OS ....they can take out all the music and vido playing features and I would be more than happy.

Same with my ip filtering all my packets looking for music. I don't dl music I WANT FAST for gaming.
OH you are a thief and we will catch you...Let the music co's pay for this BS not me. I get called and treated a pirate because I ?????? own a computer?
And I guess you call me a thief because I don't like bs like this.

[Lepard]

Why does everyone defend every damn thing these companies do.

Starter is only bundled with extremely low-end machines in developing countries. (Same as XP Starter Edition)
-Home Basic for budget systems (Comparable to XP Home)
-Home Premium for home users (Comparable to XP MCE)
-Business for small/medium business (Comparable to XP Pro)
-Enterprise for large scale deployments (Identical to business, just a different activation system)
-Ultimate for all the features of Home Premium and Business + Extras (Comparable to XP MCE with the XP Plus Pack)

******this was PURE BS
and most of these were added later.. at first there was xp pro and xp home.
that is more than enough.
NO NOT WITH VISTA
we had more BS than we could stand and OH if you are a gamer you need the most expensive version. WHY? M O N E Y...
More confusion, then when you want something you will pay again for some small thing.

DRM was incorporated into the os. DO NOT say it wasn't
fine do it that way....BUT let the co's dictating what is in and out pay for it...vista should have been free to the home users and the co's adding all kinds of BS should have been paying for it.

I do understand your statement of the co's and not Microsoft on some of this stuff. My buddy plays blu disk on his computer with a PAID version of his player. You would not belive the BS he goes thru every time he inserts a disk. So if they force the co making the player to jump thru hoops you can bet your ass they are telling (paying) ms to do the same.

AND DO NO call me a thief because I feel this is wrong. Same with my ip filtering all my packets looking for music. I don't dl music I WANT FAST for gaming.
OH you are a thief and we will catch you...Let the music co's pay for this BS not me. I get called and treated a pirate because I ?????? own a computer?
And I guess you call me a thief because I don't like bs like this.

I am not even going to get on the DRM train because it's obvious you do not know much about it.

Now, in regards to needing the most expensive version to play a game... that is also wrong.

[DeathFromBelow]

we had more BS than we could stand and OH if you are a gamer you need the most expensive version. WHY? M O N E Y...
No, you don't.

DRM was incorporated into the os. DO NOT say it wasn't
No, it wasn't.

Same with my ip filtering all my packets looking for music. I don't dl music I WANT FAST for gaming.
Moar tinfoil!

Its pretty clear that
1. You haven't got a clue what you're talking about.
2. You haven't actually used Vista.

[cnick79]

All anyone needs is the most basic version. All of the rest have various crap-apps installed which the user ends up downloading a third-party program instead. The less MS products you use, the less control MS has on you, the better off you become.

[Thuleman]

It depends on whatever version the school wants to pay for. My school had Vista Business on it's MSDNAA.
I hate to be a stickler about this, but the above is incorrect. MSDNAA can not be purchased by an entire school, it's a department (or college within a school) level of subscription.

The software you get with it is set, there's no negotiation or a la carte pick and choose.

See: MSDN Academic Alliance Memberships Comparison (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/academic/bb676724.aspx)

Most schools have some sort of volume license agreement, which is different from MSDNAA, which then covers individual applications where you can indeed pick and choose what you want to buy.

[Vermillion]

All anyone needs is the most basic version. All of the rest have various crap-apps installed which the user ends up downloading a third-party program instead. The less MS products you use, the less control MS has on you, the better off you become.

How does MS have any control over what we do whether we use Windows Mail or IE over Thunderbird and Firefox?

[iansilv]

I think the idiocy of Microsoft's multiple version strategy is demonstrated by the success of Apple's simple one version strategy tha has lead to quicker adoption amongst their users of new versions of their operating system.

[DeathFromBelow]

I think the idiocy of Microsoft's multiple version strategy is demonstrated by the success of Apple's simple one version strategy tha has lead to quicker adoption amongst their users of new versions of their operating system.

I think that has more to do with Apple culture in general.

Considering how much Apple products cost you'd better not be getting a cheaper version of their OS. There are no cheap Apple products. Microsoft OS's run on far more machines with a variety of uses. It wouldn't make sense to put a full featured and expensive OS on a netbook when all you need is basic web browsing and media playback.

[Demon10000]

I think the idiocy of Microsoft's multiple version strategy is demonstrated by the success of Apple's simple one version strategy tha has lead to quicker adoption amongst their users of new versions of their operating system.

Really? People didn't use an OS becuase they... had the freedom to choose what they wanted flavor they wanted?

[DeaconFrost]

Apple only had one version for two reasons....first being that Apple's typically aren't incorporated into any business network, in terms of management from the network admins. Second being, only one version was created because that's all Steve Jobs told his brainwashed masses that they needed.

[sparks]

Death go back and check when vista was first released. IF you wanted DX10 you had no option but ultimate.

Funny when they say a lot of cost is to develope multi os versions. Then they introduce more and more. by their own words wouldn't 1 version save money?

[requiemnoise]

I use Linux, xBSD, Windows, and OSX. I think multiple versions for Windows 7 is a good idea. OSX is a uniformed hardware platform. Hardware and OS come from the same vendor. The integration is tighter. One version is more ideal for OSX. Linux and xBSD are an open platform that means anyone can start their own OS flavors based on their target markets and mission statements. Windows have different market segments for their target markets. They are on game, corporate, and home markets. People have different needs and offering different products are more ideal. However, it seems like few Windows 7 versions aren’t needed. Some versions don’t seem to be required, but multiple versions are required for MS.

[heatlesssun]

I use Linux, xBSD, Windows, and OSX. I think multiple versions for Windows 7 is a good idea. OSX is a uniformed hardware platform. Hardware and OS come from the same vendor. The integration is tighter. One version is more ideal for OSX. Linux and xBSD are an open platform that means anyone can start their own OS flavors based on their target markets and mission statements. Windows have different market segments for their target markets. They are on game, corporate, and home markets. People have different needs and offering different products are more ideal. However, it seems like few Windows 7 versions aren’t needed. Some versions don’t seem to be required, but multiple versions are required for MS.

This is dead on and well stated.

[Joe Average]

I think the idiocy of Microsoft's multiple version strategy is demonstrated by the success of Apple's simple one version strategy tha has lead to quicker adoption amongst their users of new versions of their operating system.

Thank you for pointing out "The Cult of Mac." :)

Indoctrination is so much more efficient when the end user is effectively stripped of choice and force-fed the dogma one slice at a time... pun very much intended.

[DeathFromBelow]

Death go back and check when vista was first released. IF you wanted DX10 you had no option but ultimate.
If you're going to post FUD at least post a source. :rolleyes: There was no Ultimate requirement for DX10.

Funny when they say a lot of cost is to develope multi os versions. Then they introduce more and more. by their own words wouldn't 1 version save money?
Vista ships on a DVD containing all the major versions. You select the version you bought and put in your license key during the install. The only extra cost is the packaging for the different retail versions.

[requiemnoise]

Thank you for pointing out "The Cult of Mac." :)

Indoctrination is so much more efficient when the end user is effectively stripped of choice and force-fed the dogma one slice at a time... pun very much intended.

Are you saying, Windows users aren't "The Cult of Bill Gates?" Every time, one person states a mistake about Vista, they will be attacked by the army of Vista lovers. I say, MS followers are more of cult users than the Apple products. Windows users argue with other Window users about their favorite OSes. How many topics we had so far about XP vs Vista and 7 vs Vista?

Anyway, multiple versions are required for Ms products. They cater to way too many market shares.

[DeaconFrost]

I say, MS followers are more of cult users than the Apple products.
I say, you spend too much time arguing back to realize that the only Vista arguments going on here are to correct incorrect statements. If you go into a thread and say something incorrect about Vista, you better expect someone to say so. That doesn't make them cultist....simply because you may not agree. If you truly think Windows users are more like a cult than Apple users, you haven't spent much time around either.

[Kowan]

All Windows 7 Versions--What You Need to Know (http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2340431,00.asp?kc=ETRSS02129TX1K0000532)
Six versions of Windows 7? Why so many?
Well, technically, there could be more. Microsoft is still bound under a 2004 EU ruling to deliver an "N" version to the EU without Windows Media Player. Realistically, however, we would guess that a single Windows 7 "N" SKU will ship to EU customers, making it a total of seven.

But according to Microsoft, the new versions try to strike a balance between complexity and what customers will actually require.

"When you have a customer base of more than one billion, two options can't satisfy all of their varied needs," according to Microsoft. "For that reason, we will continue to offer a few targeted SKUs for customers with specialized needs: For price-sensitive customers with small notebook PCs, some OEMs will offer Windows 7 Starter. For customers in emerging markets, we will make Windows 7 Home Basic available.
So what versions will I able to buy in a store?
Consumers will only be able to buy either Windows 7 Home Premium or Windows 7 Professional at retail—and deliberately so; Microsoft wants to try and limit consumer confusion by only putting the two versions in front of consumers.

[heatlesssun]

Are you saying, Windows users aren't "The Cult of Bill Gates?" Every time, one person states a mistake about Vista, they will be attacked by the army of Vista lovers. I say, MS followers are more of cult users than the Apple products. Windows users argue with other Window users about their favorite OSes. How many topics we had so far about XP vs Vista and 7 vs Vista?

Anyway, multiple versions are required for Ms products. They cater to way too many market shares.

There's a lot of truth in what you say. Windows users like myself have grown up with Windows, I've used it from version 1 and its kind of something that we have an affinity towards.

Windows is everyone's favorite OS to bash because so many people love and hate it. Saying "Linux sucks" just doesn't have the draw of saying "Vista sucks" and no OS debate is complete without some disillusion of Windows no matter the topic!

Windows is a watershed product in computing history and for better or for worse serves as a point of reference that most people know.

[requiemnoise]

I say, you spend too much time arguing back to realize that the only Vista arguments going on here are to correct incorrect statements. If you go into a thread and say something incorrect about Vista, you better expect someone to say so. That doesn't make them cultist....simply because you may not agree. If you truly think Windows users are more like a cult than Apple users, you haven't spent much time around either.

You are not understanding the fact needs of the end users are different. They have different hardware, applications, requirements, security and corporate needs, price, and other variables. Of course, most of them never bothered to try everything for least a full year to notice the difference in the OSes. If they are bias based on what they know, I say they are following things based on their point of views and straight to being bias.

I argue too much? Some Vista users bash Win 7 and XP users. This is becoming way too ridiculous.

[DeaconFrost]

This is becoming way too ridiculous.
You think so? Go into the Linux subforum, and create a thread saying "I like Windows better" You'd be making a mistake by singling out Windows users. Me personally, I don't care...as long as the info being presented is correct. Many people read these boards, even as lurkers, to get answers, so needless bickering with FUD and other bullshit doesn't help anyone.

[requiemnoise]

You think so? Go into the Linux subforum, and create a thread saying "I like Windows better" You'd be making a mistake by singling out Windows users. Me personally, I don't care...as long as the info being presented is correct. Many people read these boards, even as lurkers, to get answers, so needless bickering with FUD and other bullshit doesn't help anyone.

If we go along with your idea, we must have sub forums for XP, VISTA, and Win7. There are more arguments for XP vs VISTA and Win7 vs Vista than Windows vs Linux. If you are forgetting, top topics for OS are always one Windows OS vs another Windows OS.

[DeaconFrost]

If you are forgetting, top topics for OS are always one Windows OS vs another Windows OS.
Are you trying to cop an attitude again, or what? Are you trying to get yet another thread closed? Let's try something...drop the condescending attitude, mmmkay?

Yes, obviously that is what most debates are about, because we've just gotten past the XP vs Vista debates, and a new choice was thrown into the mix. It's also obviously, because there are quite a bit more readers, posters, etc in the Windows forum than the Linux subforum. It's also due to the fact the Linux vs Windows debates are old, tired, and worn out.

Why does it bother you so much that people debate OS choices? As long as both sides stick to facts, what's the harm? Problems only arise when someone decides to jump into the fray, and either argue with fasle info, or act like their personal preference trumps all.

[heatlesssun]

Why does it bother you so much that people debate OS choices? As long as both sides stick to facts, what's the harm? Problems only arise when someone decides to jump into the fray, and either argue with fasle info, or act like their personal preference trumps all.

Amen.:)

[requiemnoise]

Are you trying to cop an attitude again, or what? Are you trying to get yet another thread closed? Let's try something...drop the condescending attitude, mmmkay?


No, I'm not trying to give out an attitude, but it sure feels like you are based on the tone of your writing. People are going to have different needs. Telling other users they are stupid for still using XP or other Windows OSes are ridiculous. Maybe, XP users don't want to upgrade their hardware. Maybe, they just bought their computer four years ago. Maybe, they just spend few hundreds on XP 64 bit edition. Maybe, their needs are basic like surfing on the net and basic word processing. Different applications, hardware, and productive needs make different needs for different revisions of Windows OS. This also even applies to different editions.

Why do you think there are Home premium and Home basic existed for Vista? DX10 cards weren't fully implemented when Vista came out. Why would someone spend more dollars for the feature they don't need? Also, if the XP still gets patches, why someone would need Vista Home instead of XP? People have different needs. You don't use their computers. They do. Now, we are at the point netbooks are all 32 bit and has a weakness in the CPU management when running a full Aero. There are many needs for different OSes and hardware. If you are planning to buy new computers for every Windows users, please dictate what they should use.

added...
Just remember your computer has a different specs and applications installed than others.Maybe, you should buy ram for every Windows users and tell them forget about Win7 and XP's boot and load time.

[DeaconFrost]

See, this is where you need to stop pointing the finger at me. You are confusing me with someone who bashes the other choices. As I said before, I only care about seeing factual information posted. My personal preference happens to be Vista x64, but you'll never catch me bashing another choice if it fits the bill. You are preaching to the choir, requiemnoise...as I don't need a lecture on why people have different needs.

To address one of your points though, there are plenty of reasons why someone would choose Vista Home Premium over XP. As you said, XP wouldn't fit the bill for everyone, but there are certainly advantages to some or many to use Vista over XP. What if a person wanted the MCE features, and could get Home Premium much cheaper than XP MCE? What if a person wanted to use 4 GB of memory and have the MCE features?

So, it needs to be said, that if a person decides Vista is the best choice for them, that should be final...as long as they make the choice based on facts. Same way, if a person says XP is better, for a reason, that's it. If they say XP is better for them because they heard on Conan O'Brien that Vista sucks, than me and many others will have something to say. And you may scoff or laugh, but we've had threads like that.

[heatlesssun]

Both you guys (requiemnoise and DeaconFrost) seem to agreeing with one another and your statements are perfectly valid and correct IMHO.

One thing requiemnoise, Aero of Windows 7 seems to be a much lighter beast than in Vista. If you look at the Crappiest machine thread for Windows 7 you'll see 7 running under some pretty low specs, 512MB and slower CPU's than just about any netbook on the market now. All the Atom netbooks have 950 graphics in them and run Windows 7 Aero just fine. Please, if you want to argue about it aregue with the people who say that it works. I don't have a netbook and I don't have first hand knowledge. But I've not yet read of on account were todays netbooks have any trouble at all with Windows 7. Please, if you don't agree with this, argue with them, not me.

[Thuleman]

I say, MS followers are more of cult users than the Apple products.

Maybe so, but at least MS followers are rational enough to realize that they are getting ripped off when someone tries to sell them $1,000 of PC hardware for $2,600 just because it says Apple on it.

Never ceases to amaze me how willingly Apple users overpay for hardware (desktops, laptops, gadgets, etc.). It's insane really. All rational thought goes out the window when the "I want to be part of the cool kids club" mentality kicks in. Except that the majority of folks are not Apple users and can only giggle at the Apple crowd.

Stranger than fiction, I swear ...

[requiemnoise]

Maybe so, but at least MS followers are rational enough to realize that they are getting ripped off when someone tries to sell them $1,000 of PC hardware for $2,600 just because it says Apple on it.

Never ceases to amaze me how willingly Apple users overpay for hardware (desktops, laptops, gadgets, etc.). It's insane really. All rational thought goes out the window when the "I want to be part of the cool kids club" mentality kicks in. Except that the majority of folks are not Apple users and can only giggle at the Apple crowd.

Stranger than fiction, I swear ...

Before we go on and on about another pointless thread. Here is what I gathered about OSX. For people who don't like to fuss with hardware and don't need the high end UNIX functionalities, OSX is a great OS for that market. There is a huge market for people who don't want to deal with hardware. Also, OSX just works out of box on Apple hardware. Here is a thing I discovered over various years. Any companies who compete directly against each other will get squashed on the same "niche" market share. There is a reason OS/2 got killed off from NT. Also, Netware got killed off from NT. There is also a reason BeOS got killed off from AppleOS and Windows. Linux, xBSD, and Plan9 are open platforms. They can't get killed. Notice, most OSes that are still alive today are offering to different niche markets?

[heatlesssun]

Before we go on and on about another pointless thread. Here is what I gathered about OSX. For people who don't like to fuss with hardware and don't need the high end UNIX functionalities, OSX is a great OS for that market. There is a huge market for people who don't want to deal with hardware. Also, OSX just works out of box on Apple hardware. Here is a thing I discovered over various years. Any companies who compete directly against each other will get squashed on the same "niche" market share. There is a reason OS/2 got killed off from NT. Also, Netware got killed off from NT. There is also a reason BeOS got killed off from AppleOS and Windows. Linux, xBSD, and Plan9 are open platforms. They can't get killed. Notice, most OSes that are still alive today are offering to different niche markets?

Good points. The Mac out of the box is a far more polished experience than the average retail PC. Also a bit more expensive but you pay for what Apple has to offer and people are willing to pay no doubt.

You're right the open platforms aren't going away. Neither is Windows or OS X for that matter. They serve different needs and wants.

I want a computer OS that can do anything, run all the software, play all the games, work with all of the gadgets and helps me make a living, That's why I go with Windows as my primary desktop OS.

Some people may want an OS that is very flexible, more secure against attacks that are primarily targeted at Windows, is free and open and not a commercial product that also helps them make a living and that person will probably like Linux as an OS solution.

Some people want hip, cool, wiz bang, golly gee it "just works" and get a Mac.

More power to ya!:D

[Klob]

It is a goddamn shame, after all this time, this point still needs to be explained. Microsoft doesn't have much of a choice to incorporate DRM. Had they chosen not too, you wouldn't be able to play back or record the various forms of media that you do. DRM is not Microsoft's doing. If you want to get your panties all in a bunch over DRM, at least take the time to understand who's forcing it on you and why.

I'd like to start a petition that DRM should stand for Don't Read Much.....because the people who bitch about it and blame Microsoft simply don't D.R.M.

I understand this but were Microsoft lets us down is by allowing shitware DRM to install that fucks up our systems. All DRM software should be required to be submitted to Microsoft so they can ensure that it doesn't fuck up our OS, as has happened so many times now.

[Klob]

Why does everyone defend every damn thing these companies do.



The people who defend these companies are always the same individuals, in case you never noticed, it is my theory that they work for these companies and come here to obfuscate the facts and do damage control. They are what I call "software industry apologists" ( you can throw in spineless somewhere in there too if you like) and they just want to help you waste more money on useless shite. Best to treat anything they post with suspicion, as I do.

[Joe Average]

Best to treat anything they post with suspicion, as I do.

I'm not believing it for a second... </insert_suspicion_here>

I've said it oh, maybe 129 times here since this forum opened its doors long ago and I'll say it again, in big letters this time:

If you can do better than Microsoft, if you can do better than Apple, if you can do better than the 195 Linux distros floating around (probably more, actually), then by all means, get off y'er keister and make the OS that we'll all get stiff (for the boys) or wet (for the ladies) about the moment we see it in action.

I'll stand by my offer of $1,000 USD cash, cold hard currency from my hand to yours if you can create an OS that will give me even the smallest reason to ditch "The Big 3" because, it hasn't been created yet, and realistically it never will - not even by the loud mouth punks that consistently just like to bitch, moan, and whine about everything that Microsoft, Apple, and any Linux distro or whatever other OS you dare gets brought to the table happens to be, say, or do.

Until then, geezus kids, give it a fuckin' break will ya... damn.

[GORANKAR]

I understand this but were Microsoft lets us down is by allowing shitware DRM to install that fucks up our systems. All DRM software should be required to be submitted to Microsoft so they can ensure that it doesn't fuck up our OS, as has happened so many times now.

Many DRM schemes do rely on drivers being installed or replaced. Theoretically, In Xp64 and Vista64 and I believe Win7 64 the drivers would have to be signed. Does anyone know if the drivers used by various DRM schemes are signed? If not how are they getting through? If so what sort of scrutiny by MS is involved in the process? Does signed = HQL? Just curious.

On topic and no longer directed at Klob:
If you really want a one version fits all OS, buy a Mac.
If you want a few more options and the widest hardware and software support currently available, buy the version of Windows that best fits your needs and wallet.
If you want an OS with near infinite customization and little to no cost save your time, find a flavor of nix that best suits you or roll your own.

Not signing the petition because:
a) on line petitions are generally stupid.
b) even if it were not stupid, it would have no effect anyway.
c) I don't agree with the reasoning behind only one version. and
d) I just feel like being contrary.

[GORANKAR]

The people who defend these companies are always the same individuals, in case you never noticed, it is my theory that they work for these companies and come here to obfuscate the facts and do damage control. They are what I call "software industry apologists" ( you can throw in spineless somewhere in there too if you like) and they just want to help you waste more money on useless shite. Best to treat anything they post with suspicion, as I do.


And, I thought you were being some what reasonable today. There goes that idea.

[gregnash]

No reason to sign the petition. The "political" wheels have been turning since long before the OP was born and more than likely most of us can't/don't want to understand the full reasoning of why they have multiple sku's.

IF for some reason they went to a cut down version of the sku's I would like to see:

Home
Premium (version includes Business stuff as well as normal Premium edition stuff)
Ultimate (the WHOLE FREAKIN' kitten kaboodle)

[requiemnoise]

The people who defend these companies are always the same individuals, in case you never noticed, it is my theory that they work for these companies and come here to obfuscate the facts and do damage control. They are what I call "software industry apologists" ( you can throw in spineless somewhere in there too if you like) and they just want to help you waste more money on useless shite. Best to treat anything they post with suspicion, as I do.

DAMN! I knew you were too smart! Alright, the truth comes out. You aren't on the net right now. You are on a special Microsoft network. All the sites that you visit are all staged. There are actually only ten of us who have to constantly post things everywhere. Things aren't real. You are right now hooked up to a large proxy server. This has been going on for the last ten years. We were about to start a reality show based on this. It is OK. We got enough footage from you to make it last one season.

[Joe Average]

"We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread, already in progress. We hope you enjoyed that last post which skipped over reality directly into... The Twilight Tech Zone..."

[DeaconFrost]

The people who defend these companies are always the same individuals, in case you never noticed, it is my theory that they work for these companies and come here to obfuscate the facts and do damage control.
I can assure you, I work in an industry that is FAR different than the technology field. You can get it through your ignorant head that when someone disagrees with you, and shows you proof that you are wrong, that doesn't make them an industry apologist, or any kind of zealot. it makes them one thing.....correct. Deal with it.

[DeaconFrost]

I understand this but were Microsoft lets us down is by allowing shitware DRM to install that fucks up our systems. All DRM software should be required to be submitted to Microsoft so they can ensure that it doesn't fuck up our OS, as has happened so many times now.
The DRM doesn't fuck up your system, assuming you play by the rules. Now I'll never sit and tell you that DRM is a good thing...but if you want to complain about it, and rightfully so, you need to learn where to complain. Besides, the companies implementing DRm do so on their own, without Microsoft's knowledge or permission.

Let me give you an example. If Apple decided tomorrow to change the DRM scheme in their music and videos purchased through iTunes, they can do so without any Microsoft interaction. Now, let's say that DRM scheme renders your old songs as unplayable. Who's fault do you think that would be? Microsoft always could have said no to all DRM schemes, but then the very same people would be bitching at Microsoft because they couldn't watch Blu-Ray discs in their HTPCs, or enjoy their music how they want to.

[heatlesssun]

The DRM doesn't fuck up your system, assuming you play by the rules. Now I'll never sit and tell you that DRM is a good thing...but if you want to complain about it, and rightfully so, you need to learn where to complain. Besides, the companies implementing DRm do so on their own, without Microsoft's knowledge or permission.

Let me give you an example. If Apple decided tomorrow to change the DRM scheme in their music and videos purchased through iTunes, they can do so without any Microsoft interaction. Now, let's say that DRM scheme renders your old songs as unplayable. Who's fault do you think that would be? Microsoft always could have said no to all DRM schemes, but then the very same people would be bitching at Microsoft because they couldn't watch Blu-Ray discs in their HTPCs, or enjoy their music how they want to.

DRM is a fantastically complex issue with no real answers. As soon as all DRM was removed from all things and when people stopped buying stuff because they wouldn't need to and when no one could make a profit and the selection and quality of things plummeted I wonder what at the DRM haters would say then.

I don't like DRM, but people have to able to make a profit for their work. Free stuff is great until nobody has the resources to do anything. People love to talk about the greedy corporations in relation to the current financial industry bail outs.

What you don't hear about is the fraud at the individual level. Brokers selling houses to people who couldn't afford them. Car sales people doctoring incomes to get people qualified for loans. People lying about their incomes. This is the source of a lot of current woes right now.

As much as I don't like DRM, I like systems fraught with corruption even less because in the end we all lose.

[DeaconFrost]

That's always the counter point, which can be legit in many situations, that without DRM, people's I.P. can be taken, resold, traded, etc without the original creator benefiting at all from it.

[heatlesssun]

That's always the counter point, which can be legit in many situations, that without DRM, people's I.P. can be taken, resold, traded, etc without the original creator benefiting at all from it.

And I think that really is the crux of the issue. We live in a free market economy where theoretically we can work hard and be rewarded for out efforts.

Content piracy undermines this principle in a serious way and leads to market uncertainty. How can a person or a company know just how well there efforts will be rewarded when they have no way to determine at what level their investment will be returned when no one would have to pay for that investment if they so choose?

Uncertainty kills risk taking. Without people willing to take risks and produce, all we have left are consumers that produce nothing. Thus the quality of life is reduced for all.

The anti-DRM crowd never talks about a society where no one has to pay for the goods and services they consume. They only talk about the consumers rights. And while consumers rights are important they become irrelevant when there is nothing left to consume.

[Klob]

I'm not believing it for a second... </insert_suspicion_here>

I've said it oh, maybe 129 times here since this forum opened its doors long ago and I'll say it again, in big letters this time:

If you can do better than Microsoft, if you can do better than Apple, if you can do better than the 195 Linux distros floating around (probably more, actually), then by all means, get off y'er keister and make the OS that we'll all get stiff (for the boys) or wet (for the ladies) about the moment we see it in action.

I'll stand by my offer of $1,000 USD cash, cold hard currency from my hand to yours if you can create an OS that will give me even the smallest reason to ditch "The Big 3" because, it hasn't been created yet, and realistically it never will - not even by the loud mouth punks that consistently just like to bitch, moan, and whine about everything that Microsoft, Apple, and any Linux distro or whatever other OS you dare gets brought to the table happens to be, say, or do.

Until then, geezus kids, give it a fuckin' break will ya... damn.

Pfft, $1,000.00 is not even enough to get me out of bed in the morning, never mind code a new OS by myself. Are you aware just how much money it took to code Ubuntu even?

I've said it before and I'll say it again, "You can't have evolution, without revolution". Us whiners are actually doing you "do not rock the boat" types a great service.

[requiemnoise]

I'm not a fan of DRM, because I like to utilize my purchase goods. Also, I'm not a fan of music and movie industries. They are known to screw everyone. While certain artists are barely paying their bills, but they are known to practice unethical accounting practice. I know plenty of artists who only got few dollars after thousands sold. But, this issue isn't MS issue. They are in the OS business, if the entertainment industries will not allow certain programs to function, they have to make deals. They need to comprise. MS customers need them. They have no choice, but install DRM in the OS. That is why I run Linux, because my OS is my business. At the same time, I will accept Windows with DRM. MS doesn't have enough options to work with.

[Klob]

The DRM doesn't fuck up your system, assuming you play by the rules.

Wrong! I installed some shovelware game on my XP system and after that I could no longer burn any cdr. Bring up msconfig and right there set to auto-load was some shitware DRM called C-Dilla from Macrovision. That is what effed up my DVD-RW drive.

[DeaconFrost]

MS doesn't have enough options to work with.
That's the point though. What options should they have? An OS with DRM implemented makes people complain. An OS without DRM, leaves people without the ability to enjoy certain types of media.....which leads people to complain.

Microsoft has always been in a position where any action they take leads to people complaining. So, often are they in lose-lose situations in the public's eye.

[heatlesssun]

I'm not a fan of DRM, because I like to utilize my purchase goods. Also, I'm not a fan of music and movie industries. They are known to screw everyone. While certain artists are barely paying their bills, but they are known to practice unethical accounting practice. I know plenty of artists who only got few dollars after thousands sold. But, this issue isn't MS issue. They are in the OS business, if the entertainment industries will not allow certain programs to function, they have to make deals. They need to comprise. MS customers need them. They have no choice, but install DRM in the OS. That is why I run Linux, because my OS is my business. At the same time, I will accept Windows with DRM. MS doesn't have enough options to work with.

While I basically agree with this statement don't forget the little guys who work in these various industries. When companies don't meet financial targets they are the first to loose their jobs.

It's too easy to demonize big companies and forget about the millions of decent hard working people who just want to have a decent life and pay their bills.

[Joe Average]

Pfft, $1,000.00 is not even enough to get me out of bed in the morning, never mind code a new OS by myself. Are you aware just how much money it took to code Ubuntu even?

I've said it before and I'll say it again, "You can't have evolution, without revolution". Us whiners are actually doing you "do not rock the boat" types a great service.

So you're under the mistaken impression that I'd be the only person on the planet willing to pay decent money for the "OS to end all OSes" ? Geez... and to think at one point I actually had some respect for your posts... (and yes I already know all your replies and so does everyone else, don't bother).

I said I'd be willing to pay $1,000 cash, while others would obviously be willing to pay for it as well, just not as much. Even so, the concept holds. If you can do it better (seriously doubtful, but that's obvious), then do it.

Put up or shut up, I'd say.

[requiemnoise]

While I basically agree with this statement don't forget the little guys who work in these various industries. When companies don't meet financial targets they are the first to loose their jobs.

It's too easy to demonize big companies and forget about the millions of decent hard working people who just want to have a decent life and pay their bills.

My hatred toward Microsoft isn't Microsoft. It is their management. There are many talented developers work at MS. Some developers even moonlight as Linux developers. Business people don't have to be unethical. Don't get me started on why MS handed over millions to SCO to sue Linux. Not to mention, they have potentially violated over 400 open source agreements, but claim open source stole everything from them.

Music industry? I'm not going comment too much about their business practices. I have a very good reason to form a huge hatred. My view on the finance industries? All the upper management in the finance industry can all go to hell too.

My view on DRM is it isn't MS's business. They are in the business of selling OS. They have to follow rules like others.

[heatlesssun]

Wrong! I installed some shovelware game on my XP system and after that I could no longer burn any cdr. Bring up msconfig and right there set to auto-load was some shitware DRM called C-Dilla from Macrovision. That is what effed up my DVD-RW drive.

ANYTHING that you install of your computer has the potential to screw it up BTW.

[heatlesssun]

My hatred toward Microsoft isn't Microsoft. It is their management. There are many talented developers work at MS. Some developers even moonlight as Linux developers. Business people don't have to be unethical. Don't get me started on why MS handed over millions to SCO to sue Linux. Not to mention, they have potentially violated over 400 open source agreements, but claim open source stole everything from them.

Music industry? I'm not going comment too much about their business practices. I have a very good reason to form a huge hatred. My view on the finance industries? All the upper management in the finance industry can all go to hell too.

My view on DRM is it isn't MS's business. They are in the business of selling OS. They have to follow rules like others.

Nobody has to be unethical and yet it happens all the time. People are people with flaws. All people in all stations in life. Its not just big companies, it also individuals as well.

That's why I try not to let my choice of OS or product get too tied up in politics. Look hard enough and you'll find something you don't like about anyone. That's not to excuse bad behavior but its simply to easy to become pious.

"Why do you see the speck in your neighbor’s eye, but do not notice the log in your own eye?" Luke 6:41

[requiemnoise]

Nobody has to be unethical and yet it happens all the time. People are people with flaws. All people in all stations in life.


That is a very wise statement. Of course, it is hard to define what ethics are. Some times, it is based on the popularity of point of views as the people's cultures change over time. Another hand, people's ethics can changed and persuaded when others show their expression underneath their meanings. Isn't that reason, everyone has their beliefs and niche to follow? But, if a person has to stand in the grey area of the safety zone, they have to spend too much time making each decision. Most of time, they will be standing still.

[ChingChang]

this petition is stupid. The only versions most people should consider are home premium, business, and ultimate. How is it hard to decide between those three? XP had home, pro, and MCE. At least with vista and 7 there is a version that includes every feature.

[LstOfTheBrunnenG]

Actually, this time around I don't see anyone getting Ultimate.

The big reason people would buy Ultimate (at least in my book) was so that they could enjoy a Remote Desktop server combined with Windows Media Center. If you didn't want WMC, you could get business. If you didn't want an RDP server, you could get Home Premium.

If you look at the features chart for Win7, you'll see Win7 Professional actually includes Media Center. The only features relegated to Ultimate/Enterprise are the following:


BitLocker
AppLocker
DirectAccess
BranchCache
Multilingual features
Virtual hard disk booting


I don't know about you guys, but the only one remotely tempting to me is VHD booting. Home Premium will be plenty for most people, and Pro will be a perfect fit for people like me. Ultimate (which is simply Enterprise, but you can buy it at retail) looks like it would only really appeal to Enterprise customers, or really hardcore devs.

Let's just hope they don't just jack Pro up to Vista Ultimate's price point.

[Klob]

I signed it. :)

[GORANKAR]

I signed it. :)

Nobody will notice that you did, and nothing will be done about it.
MS only cares about what sells.
Nix distro writers only care about what they, themselves, want in an OS.
Apple could care less anymore about anything or anyone that is not Steve Jobs, besides they have enough die hard fans to easily ride out their niche for the next twenty years,(as long as Jobs is still around anyway)..

[heatlesssun]

Nobody will notice that you did, and nothing will be done about it.
MS only cares about what sells.
Nix distro writers only care about what they, themselves, want in an OS.
Apple could care less anymore about anything or anyone that is not Steve Jobs, besides they have enough die hard fans to easily ride out their niche for the next twenty years,(as long as Jobs is still around anyway)..

Perhaps a little cynical but not untruthful. I do think that Microsoft does a pretty good job of working with customers and partners, more than they get. It only sells if somebody wants it.

I think that the Linux community thinks that it has great offerings on the desktop and it does but the development is kind of in a vacuum of regular users.

Apple is an appliance company. They have great appliances and services in the form of desktop computers, media players/PDA's, and now phones. They have simple to use and robust products that have a perceived uniqueness about them. They have great days then they've had bad days, now they are having great days again. They'll probably do ok this year but I would expect to see significant slow down if only because of the economy. And after a while there's only so may times they reinvent the already invented.

[YeuEmMaiMai]

DRM would not be an issue if people didn't steal things that were not theirs. I'd like to say thanks to all those people who steal stuff making DRM an unwanted fact of life......

[Klob]

Nobody will notice that you did, and nothing will be done about it.
MS only cares about what sells.
Nix distro writers only care about what they, themselves, want in an OS.
Apple could care less anymore about anything or anyone that is not Steve Jobs, besides they have enough die hard fans to easily ride out their niche for the next twenty years,(as long as Jobs is still around anyway)..

Yea, so? I signed it anyway just because I felt like it. Just like I would sign a petition to stop selling fur coats even though I know it won't stop it. Helps me to sleep better at night.

[Keiichi]

Linux Distros-
Enough is enough! When you released Linux, you released multiple versions that were all priced differently according to different feature levels. This led to confusion and frustration amongst your users.

Amiga released one version of AmigaOS and in the process made fun of your Linux release. It is a mistake to release multiple versions of Linux. You have a chance to correct the mistakes of your Linux release, and one of the major ones to start with is not releasing multiple versions of Linux.

One version of the software will not just avoid market confusion, but it will ease acceptance by users because they will not be faced with the same issue they were with Linux- what version they should choose.

You will sell more copies of Linux, make your OEM vendors happier by saving them a headache, and make the pc world a better place.

So one more time- Linux Distros- Release only one version of Linux!

[Klob]

The difference being that most distros of Linux are free so no money is wasted if you buy the wrong version. You just go download another version for free.

[heatlesssun]

The difference being that most distros of Linux are free so no money is wasted if you buy the wrong version. You just go download another version for free.

But then how much time did you just waste? Free isn't necessarily free and that's why Linux hasn't taken the desktop by storm. The cost savings tend to be dramatically overstated.

[GORANKAR]

Yea, so? I signed it anyway just because I felt like it. Just like I would sign a petition to stop selling fur coats even though I know it won't stop it. Helps me to sleep better at night.


I guess I just never imagined that multiple versions of Win7 could cause anyone to lose sleep.
But, as long as you are sleeping better, I guess it's all good.

[Joe Average]

It's amazing how the almighty dollar seems to always find its way into such discussions. I tell people that raw dollar cost is simply not something to use as a point of contention and they don't get it. There's a lot more involved to "the cost of running an OS" than just the dollars you spend (or don't spend) on the installation media.

Why some folks never grasp that is beyond even me...