Kermit the Folder Worklog

[jedihobbit]

While not the most original name, I’ve always been a big Jim Henson fan and this unit is slated for pcper’s Folding Frogs!!

When I did the rebuild of a friend’s mATX system that was done for them years ago “re-casing” the components was part of the deal. So I ended up with the original case. At that time it was called a SimpleMax 101 but like a lot of “unique” computer components it no longer exists. Big Bruin did a nice review for the SimpleMax 101 (http://www.bigbruin.com/html/simplemax.htm) a while back. It will explain the case structure a lot better than I can. If you review it prior to continuing you’ll understand some of the issues I may (will!!) encounter.

Going from………..

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Misc%20Computer/FSSys4FRT1SM.jpg http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Misc%20Computer/FSSys4Intforums.jpg

to...............

So with the case as my primary stating point I’ve decided to attempt to create a “micro-folder system”. Sadly (or typically) this will have to be a clandestine build hidden from the wife. Therefore I will attempt to use “what is in house” for components. This is what I have so far:

Case: Simple 101
PSU: silenX iXtrema Micro 350W (replaces original 200W)
Mobo: Abit NF-AM2 nView
CPU: Opty 1210 (CCB6F 0741MPMW)
HSF: TBD Zalman
Memory: 2 x 1024 - Corsair CMX1024-6400C4 or OCZ OCZ2P800R22GK
GPU: On Board 6150 (for now!)
Audio: On Board
HDD: WD800JD 80GB SATA II
Optical: Sony NEC Optiarc DVD Burner Combo Drive

One of the first “upgrades” I did when I got this wild hair this spring was to sneak a PSU upgrade passed this wife. The original 200W was fine when I was running the Chaintech 7NIF2 / 2500+ Barton but felt I needed more. Because of the space being so limited I jumped on the silenX iXtrema Micro 350W (http://www.silenxdirect.com/ixtremapropsus.asp?sku=ixm-35-14) as it is “modular”. Unfortunately not that much space is saved as the cables plug into a secondary module making the PSU actually two components. Also kinda wonder how far down the food chain I’ll have to go for a GPU that won’t kill the system. Kinda wish I had sprang for the 400W as it has 20A vs. 18A for the +12V.

The PSU

Initial when I started the project I had ordered the 300W version. This introduced me to one of my major complaints about silenX……their packaging sucks the big one!!! As it turns out it was a drop ship from the factory. They just do not “protect” the components all that well. As you will see later the unit itself has a very attractive (to me anyway) “Metallic Titanium” mirror finish. When the unit arrived it looked like some one had played soccer with it! It arrived with multiple scratches / scraps and with several noticeable dents in the case. Contacted their customer service department (why not it was dropped shipped) and got a pleasant surprise……a responds in less than 48 hours. They allowed me to rma the unit and after thought sent them an additional 20 and updated to the 350W.

BTW please excuse the quality of some of the pics as the auto setting on the camera managed to occasionally become off position.

On arrival one ends up with just a plain white box with “Micro 350W” on the out side. Inside you have:

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/PSU-PartsSM.jpg

The assortment of cables….. starting from the top:

1. 2 x Molex power cables (2 molex connectors with the usual FDD power connector each)
2. 2 x SATA power cables (2 connectors and the FDD thingy each)
3. 1 x 6-pin GPU power connector (someone dreaming?)

Besides having the plug-in module, the usual power connector, and an interesting 8-pin to 6-pin mobo connector. Here is a better view of the plug-in unit.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/PSUModularHousingSM.jpg

For cooling the unit comes with what appears to be two 60mm fans the factory rates at 14dB each. Also you’ll notice the fans and grills use rubber “isolators” to work on noise control……. “Front” and “rear” views.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/PSUFrontSM.jpg http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/PSURearSM.jpg

And did I mention the mirror-like finish??????

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/PSUShineySM.jpg

Choosing the HSF

As the Opty is to be oc’ed, needing a low profile, and being a Z fan boy I’ve narrowed my hsf choice down to three, the CNPS-7500 CU (http://www.zalman.co.kr/ENG/product/Product_Read.asp?idx=167), 8000 (http://www.zalman.co.kr/ENG/product/Product_Read.asp?idx=163), or the 8700 (http://www.zalman.co.kr/ENG/product/Product_Read.asp?idx=168).

No sure how (eBay anyone?) but I’ve managed to have one of each on hand! From left to right..... 8000, 8700, and 7500.
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/The3cavalariosSM.jpg

I guess as far as choice “the bigger the better” would probably be the answer. However need to find which will fit in the case the best. Already know what the CNPS-8000 is capable of as I used when I test bedded another nView / Opty 1210 setup (http://forums.pcper.com/showthread.php?t=454591). The major caveat however is this was done on an open tech station. Also had some experience with 8700 when I did a friend’s MicroFly build (http://forums.pcper.com/showthread.php?t=459496). That only leaves the behemoth of the 7500 to wonder about.

To get a feel for what dermal work may be necessary I mounted a spare dead nView in the case.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/DummyMoboInSM.jpg

Then literally just started sitting the Zalmans in place to see what happens. What you see is the progression from the 8000 to the 7500 for fitting. One of the things that became apparent right from the start is the fact the optical drive needed to go into the secondary mount slot. The 8700 wasn’t shown as it is very close to the 7500.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/S101-DrvcageinSM.jpg http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/S101-optdr8000closeSM.jpg http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/S101-optdr80002SM.jpg

As you can see the 8000 would not require any “hammer, grind, or file to suit” to work. However the 8700 and the 7500 needs a “clearance” cutout so 1. It doesn’t touch the drive rack, and 2. The rack can be removed without removing the HSF. The drive rack needs to slide to rear about 1/8” to ¼” before it can be rotated up and out.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/8000DRCagefitcloseSM.jpg http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/S1017500closeSM.jpg http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/7500DRCagefitcloseSM.jpg

Unless someone suggest otherwise this leads me to believe I should go the route of the CNPS-7500 and just hope the mobo can handle its 848g weight!!

Well back to the real stuff (honey dos) and look at how the PSU fit in later!!

Looking at PSU Fit

Well now on to see how the PSU physically works with the case. Mounted and one of the first things that showed up is the fact the mobo power cables “almost didn’t make it’!! If the 6-pin cable hadn’t of been a “two parter” it would have not reached. Also to reach it has to go across the SATA ports on the board. This could prove to be interesting when I start setting up that cabling later. The primary cable makes it but could pose a problem as it wants to “touch” the power/rest header.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/S101-PSUFittingSM.jpg

Initially I wanted to place the modular block on the bottom so as not to block any of the factory cooling holes.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/PSUModularHousing1SM.jpg

However this may not happen without some more moding! It seems when the drive cage is mounted and you’re trying to close it, it drags on the edge of the block.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/ModulartodrFrameIssueSM.jpg

Turns out it is a rivet head on the bottom of the cage. Guess I could drill it out and try for a smaller rivet or actually move where it is riveted. The other option is to place the block on the case side and block a few holes.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/DRCageRivetIssueSM.jpg http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/PSUModularHousing2SM.jpg

Know what is easiest, but just not sure I want to go that way!

Back to the honey dos and then a long look at some case cooling issues…………..

Case Cooling

The really big issue is how to improve case cooling as it pretty much sucks! Stock cooling originally was provided by two thin 60mm fans similar to what is used on some HDD coolers. Supposedly one in and one out, but as you can see by this rear view it would seem they would “fight” each other!!

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/S101RearSM.jpg

From the get go the stamped grills will go and I’m replacing the stock fans with more noisy Evercool aluminum 60mm x 25mm Case Fans ( http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835119028). Again these are from the parts box, therefore paid for, and no one said the folder would be silent!!

Also I’m looking at how to add maybe a 120mm intake fan, but space is hard to find. In the first picture I taped off the available space for a fan. Everywhere else for all intents and purposes the internal components “touch” the side. Up top center is the approximate center of the hsf fan.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/IF120onSideSM.jpg

For a top fan I would be limited to a 92mm as the mobo offset will hit anything else and then it would need to be 20mm or less thick and have to be most likely offset. As the last pic shows a 120mm is as wide as the case!

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/Top1201SM.jpg http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/Top1202SM.jpg http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/Top120RefSM.jpg

Well this is all the pre-engineering I’ve had time for and any input would be greatly appreciated! If I have the time this week end I hope to may set the mobo/cpu/hsf/mem assemble up on my tech station and see what I can do on the OC side.

Oh, by the way if I were to add a low profile GPU it would run right above the point where the front tape does the dog leg………for what it is worth!

Speaking of GPU

On a side note I’ve been wondering if I could slip a decent folding GPU into the already cramped interior. Also the biggest concern initially was what the 350W psu could power and wondered if any of the 8400 – 8600s would work with the 18A and fold at a reasonable rate..

As it turns out there is a more important consideration………….size!

Tossed in an old 9700 without its hsf to see if height would be an issue. Nope, looks like length is it!! By moving the optical drive to the lower bay I pretty much doomed having a stand alone GPU. The caps and power connector on the old 9700 smack right into the drive. Also the card itself almost touches the frame.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/GPUFit1SM.jpg http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/GPUFit2SM.jpg http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/GPUFitRearCloseSM.jpg

Height from the top of the gpu connector to the bottom of the drive is a tight 2 3/8” so even a “low profile” most likely wouldn’t work. Just curious would a low profile card fold worth a snit????

Maybe like the Galaxy 8500GT (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814162004)? ‘Course it depends where that top cap falls as it is roughly 3 3/16” tall! Not sure of the height of this one but it looks like the Chaintech 8600GT’s (http://www.chaintechusa.com/a2111_product_spec.php?serno=425#) layout might let it squeeze in.

Then again I could possibly “sneak” the $27 with MIR for the 8500GT passed the wife as opposed to the $68ish after MIR for the 8600GT.

Oh well this part is potentially “future” anyway, but should be part of the “engineering”. Again any comments are welcome.

[lord_farfig]

I'm going to have to watch this build!

Here's why: interesting case, I love folding, and I love them Zalmans too!

Haha!

[Erasmus354]

How about a 9600GT? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814162016

Also, have you considered getting a slimline disc drive? That would give you more height.

[nlancaster]

Toss out the optical drive. If it is just folding you dont need it after getting the machine loaded with windows/linux.

[jedihobbit]

Toss out the optical drive. If it is just folding you dont need it after getting the machine loaded with windows/linux.

It has occured to me to use a remote enclosure! :D

[lowteckh]

Damn you really are a granpa :D
For the GPU the Galaxy 9600GT is the most powerful low profile video card there, price is also very good if you get the rebate. Getting rid of the optical drive and you can stick the 8800GS/9600GSO in there, think those are the most popular folding cards.

[jedihobbit]

Grandpa? Just because I still have FDDs in two of my current computers doesn't mean I'm archaic!! :mad: Why I'll smack you with a stack of 5.25 floppy disks for that and finish you off with my box of 80 column punch cards............. :eek: :D ;)

GPU folding is out of the question and will drop the idea........reason? There is only 7-1/2" /191mm + 1/8" between the drive/hdd rack and the rear I/O plate. Really don't want to "jerry rig" a way to mount the hdd as that would be required if I removed the rack. Maybe sometime later I might give that a consideration. ;)

Now that is settled, case cooling with be the biggest challenge and has been addressed in the work log. If you could make any suggestions that would be greatly appreciated!

[y3k]

oh wait,


really big heatsinks and make up some sort of way to mount a 120 mm fan in the case and funnel air out through the back

[Arcygenical]

Why don't you install Windows XP to a nice cheap 4gb USB2.0 flash drive?

That's what I did for my folding machine to get rid of A) the 10w draw of the HDD and B) the huge freaking HDD.

[jedihobbit]

oh wait, really big heatsinks and make up some sort of way to mount a 120 mm fan in the case and funnel air out through the back

Well I will be using a CNPS-7500 CU (http://www.zalman.co.kr/ENG/product/Product_Read.asp?idx=167), at 848g of CU think that is big enough? No room for a 120 in the back, top, or bottom......just somewhere in the side (review the part on case cooling) and suggest! :D

Why don't you install Windows XP to a nice cheap 4gb USB2.0 flash drive?

That's what I did for my folding machine to get rid of A) the 10w draw of the HDD and B) the huge freaking HDD.

When and if I decide to try something different I may give that a try, but right now I'll stick with the HDD and rack.

In the wee hours of the morning...........

As it turns out GPU folding is out of the question and I will drop the idea........reason? There is only 7-1/2" /191mm + 1/8" between the drive/hdd rack and the rear I/O plate.

Case cooling with be the biggest challenge and has been addressed in the work log. If you could look at what I got and make any suggestions that would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks for all the input - just hope it doesn't turn into a wasted effort! :(

But by midday...........

This project just came to a screeching halt due to a substantial amount of stupidity.

Set up all the stuff to test and run on the tech station and managed to apparently corrupt the bios chip. To confirm I "stole" the one out of DreamCatcher and promptly put it in back-ass-ward – it is toast and hope I haven’t screwed the mobo. :o :( :mad:

Got an e-mail into Abit to see what this'll cost me!

[lowteckh]

Not quite understanding the problem with the GPU. How does the i/o plate affect it? They're in different places... And the HD :confused::confused:

[jedihobbit]

Not quite understanding the problem with the GPU. How does the i/o plate affect it? They're in different places... And the HD :confused::confused:

I/O was the incorrect term, sorry! :o Excuse the quick and dirty but this is what I ment..... can't fit a 9.5" card in 7.5" of space.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/S101-DrvcageGPUIssueSM.jpg

[jedihobbit]

Why don't you install Windows XP to a nice cheap 4gb USB2.0 flash drive?

That's what I did for my folding machine to get rid of A) the 10w draw of the HDD and B) the huge freaking HDD.

So how is this done?? When loading the OS and everything else (including F@H client) just set the thumb drive as you HDD in the bios? What happen if it unplugs? Fill me in on the details as this is starting to sound interesting! :D

[lord_farfig]

So how is this done?? When loading the OS and everything else (including F@H client) just set the thumb drive as you HDD in the bios? What happen if it unplugs? Fill me in on the details as this is starting to sound interesting! :D

It should be relatively easy. Most motherboards support booting to USB drives. I had a folding machine which ran Linux, and it ran from a USB Flash drive. The Linux installer recognized the drive as a device and was a straight forward install of Ubuntu! Mine was text based so no GUI, 100% folding. ;)

I've not personally installed Windows on a Flash drive, but Setup should be able to detect it and allow you to install to it. Or there may be some How-To's out there on the 'net!

EDIT: I guess you'd be SOL if the drive got unplugged. But there are the internal USB headers you could attach it to, so that way it's inside the case. Maybe with something like this (http://www.directron.com/usbfemaleada.html)?

[jedihobbit]

EDIT: I guess you'd be SOL if the drive got unplugged. But there are the internal USB headers you could attach it to, so that way it's inside the case. Maybe with something like this (http://www.directron.com/usbfemaleada.html)?

Dang, that's pretty slick! Now I'm having to look at this whole deal through another light! That is as soon as I roust up the two bios chips and I haven't fried the board! :o

[86DRIFTER]

Here's what I thought of. If the rack is the source of all problems, why not dupe it?

How about using a notebook hard drive instead of a 3.25". You could mount it elsewhere in the case and earn extra cred for modding it like that. You could try to make it silent with rubber pads and such. And then you could get a nice GPU because it will fit.

Just my opinions since I love SFFs.

[Arcygenical]

It's actually not easy at all... But, if you have a copy (or get one ;)) of Magic ISO, I can give you instructions and some files that let you modify a windows XP SP3 installer ISO to allow booting from a USB stick :). As stated earlier, Linux will install to a USB stick easily, but not windows... It requires a bit of messing around... Oh, and a second computer too...

Windows, by default, will not let you install to a USB drive... But if you modify the USB.sys, USBSTOR.sys and USBROOT.sys files to the "Windows embedded" versions (in the install ISO with MagicISO) you can get it to recognize the USB stick as usable media...

Make sure your USB stick is good for at least 10mbps reads though, this makes for a very unresponsive system (no impact on PPD though).

If your board supports USB booting, and your USB stick is at least 2gb (4gb is best) and has good IO performance, this is totally doable... In-fact, I'm using a USB stick to boot into windows for my GPU folding system :)

[jedihobbit]

Ahhhhhhhh, now I concerned! For I am VERY software challanged.........:o :rolleyes:

[Arcygenical]

It's really quite easy, if you have access to Magic ISO, and an XP SP3 CD, I can guide you through the rest... You could even add me on MSN if you'd like (my email is in my user profile).

[OofC_S7v7N]

i like how were turn folding into a game to see how much we can fold.

[jedihobbit]

It's really quite easy, if you have access to Magic ISO, and an XP SP3 CD, I can guide you through the rest... You could even add me on MSN if you'd like (my email is in my user profile).

Okay I do have XP-Home for the system but it is SP2, does that make a difference? I will have to look around for a copy of Magic ISO. Definately will catch up with you to discuss this in more detail, especially if SP2 works. However, right now my primary concern before I can do anything else is to find me two bios chips for the nView. :(

[Ockie]

I/O was the incorrect term, sorry! :o Excuse the quick and dirty but this is what I ment..... can't fit a 9.5" card in 7.5" of space.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/S101-DrvcageGPUIssueSM.jpg

Just leave that entire drive cage mechanism out?

[jedihobbit]

Last Week

This project just came to a screeching halt do to a substantial amount of stupidity.

Set up all the stuff to test and run on the tech station and managed to apparently corrupt the bios chip. To confirm I "stole" the one out of DreamCatcher and promptly put it in back-ass-ward.

Thanks to ud over at pcper, have an order in for two chips from these guys http://www.badflash.com/

Hope they arrive this week and we'll see if I ordered them correctly. This will also give me a chance to see if it really was the bios! :eek:

Gave up on abit as it seems they are getting out of the mobo business...........

11/02/08

While I'm waiting on the chips thought I'd get back on the cooling issue. As a re-hash here is the side view

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/IF120onSideSM.jpg

What we do have is the two 60s in the rear. We all know this isn’t going to do me much good when the 1210 is oc’ed. On an open tech station the nView-1210 (http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1302675) that is going into DC was in the 50 – 54C range. If I’m to get close to that I’ll need more air! One alternative is to try for a 120 on the side. This shows three different placements for one. Please note that the CNPS-7500 is 3” tall with the total case about 5”. That doesn’t include the mobo standoff height either.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/Side120HighSM.jpg http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/Side120MidSM.jpg http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/Side120LowSM.jpg

The high mount covers the hsf, the middle cover the hsf and deletes the handle, the low is close to the psu. If I make both 60s exhaust then maybe the low mount would be best as the cool air comes in low and is pulled up by the 60s.

As mentioned earlier for a bow hole I’ll have to go with a 92mm max because of case width. The cooling vents you see are mirrored on the other side. So I’m very open to suggestions!

BTW I’ve dropped even thinking about adding a GPU, going with the original idea of building with what I have in house and just do SMP folding.

[Power5]

If you dont need any expansion cards, just attach a fan to the slots as an exhaust.

[jedihobbit]

Okay now that I’ve kinda sorta made up my mind on the cooling issues decided to do some stuff before the boss lady get back from her mom’s Monday.

First off it is “DREMEL TIME!” The first thing to get chopped is the stock stamped fan grills for the rear 60mm fans…………… now you see ‘em………… now you don’t!

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/60mmGrilsNowUSeeEmSM.jpg http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/60mmGrillsNowUDontSM.jpg

After that it was time to butcher the drive cage. Needed to make a clearance cut so the HSF wouldn’t touch. As usual I decided to remove more than necessary, but at least this way the cooling holes would allow for less metal to cut. Right off the bat I realized this was a lot different than the last three cases I cut on. They are aluminum and this is steel! Any way got the wild hair to add 6 more “cooling holes” to the HDD side and promptly had issues. Because of my usual rush I didn’t really support the sheet metal so had the drill bit grab, stick, and actually “bend” the sheet metal. So here you have it…….. before, the cut out, and the holes.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/DriveCageB4SM.jpg http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/DCageHSFCutoutSM.jpg http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/DCageHDDHolesSM.jpg

With a little bit of time decided to start putting stuff in place. One of the first things different from the initial layout was to put the modular cable block under the drive cage. Take a close look and you’ll see it will get real tight if left near the PSU and HDD. Power5 you'll notice that I hope I DON"T have to use any expansion cards! :D

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/StuffInNo1SM.jpg http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/MostlythereSM.jpg

The only things not in place right now will be the 2 x 60mm fans and the 120mm on the side. I also haven’t hooked up any of the molex stuff either. So for now will button ‘er up and wait ‘til I have the opportunity to do the 120mm hole.

[Adidas4275]

looks good

[colinstu]

Half height 9600GT (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814162016)?

Not sure how it'd fit, dremel?

[jedihobbit]

Half height 9600GT (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814162016)?

Not sure how it'd fit, dremel?

Even at half height (would need a full height I/O plate) the cooling stuff would hit the hdd part of the cage. then again I might be able to move the hdd over to the 5.25 bay by the HSF. However purchsing such an item would most definatly bring it to the wife's attention! ;)

[jedihobbit]

It sure seems this build isn't suppposed to be completed! :( First I screw up the bios chip and now I have an HDD that is only giving me "disk read errors". :confused: This occurred as I was formating it and trying to load XP-Home.

When I get home tonight from work will give the old WD Diagnostics a try to see what happens, but not having high hopes after playing with it for over an hour last night [this morning].

Just to be safe have one of these on order from the egg and just hope it gets here by the weekend! :p

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148231

[jedihobbit]

According to the diagnostics there were no errors! :eek: :confused: :rolleyes:

Soooooooooo I'm zeroing the whole drive and will start all over again. :p

[lowteckh]

Getting a new mobo by chance? ... maybe you can sneak a new case in too *whistles*.

[jedihobbit]

Getting a new mobo by chance? ... maybe you can sneak a new case in too *whistles*.

Now that you mention it I do have this hidding in the attic! :D

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Misc%20Computer/SG01-BLtSide.jpg http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Misc%20Computer/SG01-BFrt.jpg http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Misc%20Computer/SG01-BOpen.jpg

Excuse the dust but I did "borrow" these pics from the guy I bought it from..... :rolleyes:

No I don't plan on changing a hardware unless I break it or it appears broken! The current case is the challange I wish to meet.......... ;)

[lowteckh]

Mm so it's a challenge thing. Mentioned the mobo cuz you said you gave up on Abit and blew some chip (then bought a $30 kit to repair it @.@?)....

[jedihobbit]

Mm so it's a challenge thing. Mentioned the mobo cuz you said you gave up on Abit and blew some chip (then bought a $30 kit to repair it @.@?)....

Have two nViews and love 'em to death and will try to keep them going as long as I can. When the time comes to "up-grade" will be looking for AM2+ or "newer". And knowing the wife that'll be no time soon! :p

[jedihobbit]

11/19/08 in the wee hours!

Okay after seemingly managed to get the HDD to format (after ordering a new one of course!) decided to unhook it and make up my mind as to which HDD I’ll use. In the reviews it seems most of the users find that it runs “cool” and the WD is a regular toaster.

Now with the HDD issue out of the way temporarily, thought I’d get back to the cooling issue. I’ve again hooked up the Raptor from DreamCatcher as it has all of the testing software on it.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/UsingDCsRaptorSM.jpg

As a side note noticed that the wee PSU has more bling to it than the shinny case…..both fans have blue leds! Apologize as it seems the auto setting on the camera is “playing games” right now!

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/PSUBlueFan2SM.jpg http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/PSUBlueFan1SM.jpg

For the initial temp testing I’ve just hooked up the 2 x 60s as I haven’t gotten the hole cut for the 120 yet. There are three setups that I plan to review/test 1.) the original config which has one 60 as intake and one as exhaust, 2.) Both as exhaust in conjunction with the 120 in the side, and 3) totally removed and use their holes as “vents” in conjunction with the 120.

Here you can see the first setup and I have the bottom one intake and the upper (closest to the hsf) as exhaust.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/60sInOutSM.jpg

My initial testing will be a 1 hour run of OCCT to get the cores at 99% and see what the temps are. The readings may be a wee bit skewed as I don’t have the heat of the HDD “inside”. With the room at about 18C and using Config 1 for the 2 x 60s the cores are run low to mid 50sC. This is after a little over 30 minutes of running. However for the last 20 minutes of the run I took the side off and ended up with a 4C drop during that time. It seems I will have to add the 120 for sure as when summer gets here and have several ‘puters running room temp will climb!

11/21/08 in the wee hours!

Alrighty then…………on the way out the driveway going to work UPS met me with the new Seagate HDD from the egg. So as I type this I down loading M$ updates (seems I have a pre-SP2 copy) along with the latest for the 6150 chipset and the audio. Below you have the Seagate on the left with the WD on the right. One of the biggest things I noticed is how “thin” the Seagate is! That should be a plus when it comes to cooling!

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/SeagatevsWD1SM.jpg http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/SeagatevsWD2SM.jpg http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/SeagateThinnerSM.jpg

Well I’ve got to get up early for some DR appointments so will be stopping for now…….snit it seems the “puter is hung up trying to download SP2!! Or does it just take a long time???????

Later

[jedihobbit]

Everything seems to have been loaded and I’ve been playing with the system using OCCT. Again one of the things I’m looking at is the core temps and try for a “final” stable setting.

Ran up to HD this evening with the idea of picking up some metal cutting blades for the jig saw adapter for my dremel. After I got home it was discovered the 2 “U” shaped types I picked up unfortunately has to be the “T” style. :o So there went the idea of cutting the hole for the 120 ‘til I can exchange them tomorrow. :(

Now that I have the hdd I decided to see how much “warmer” the cores would be with everything inside. Leaving the 60s as 1 x in & 1 x out I started the 6 hour run of OCCT. Just for S & Gs here is the case front as it is running…….

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/CaseFrtRunningSM.jpg

It appears there is no real temp increase as the cores still run 53 – 56C with the room temp at 18C. Then I had a thought (dangerous things for me!)…… what would happen if I opened the top optical drive door as nothing is mounted there. Low and behold the temps dropped 2 – 3C!! :eek: As you can see from the picture, it is straight through.........

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/DVDDoorOpen1SM.jpg http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/60s-HSFthruDoor2SM.jpg http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/60s-HSFthruDoorSM.jpg

If I was really “interested”, had the time, and the talent, it would be kinda neat to figure out how to cut away the center of the door and cover the hole with a mesh of some sort.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/jedihobbit/Kermit%20the%20folder/DVDDoorSideSM.jpg

Guess the BIG question now would be “Is the mid 50s acceptable full load run temps for folding?” That would get me off the hook as far a cutting the hole for the 120.

[Danny Bui]

Guess the BIG question now would be “Is the mid 50s acceptable full load run temps for folding?”

I'd say it is.

[lowteckh]

Shiny and blue... The 50s are just fine, guess you're pretty much done with it now?

[jedihobbit]

Shiny and blue... The 50s are just fine, guess you're pretty much done with it now?


Yeah as I'm going to weasl out of cutting the hole for the 120! Next up to learn how to work with Linux as that seems to be the best OS for F@H SMP clients. :D

[best [486]]

I have a case that's a bit shorter than yours, but fatter, it only used the PSU for exhaust. I put the psu elsewhere [it was directly on top of where the cpu is on the motherboard] and added one 80MM exhaust, totaling 2 wimpy 80MM exhaust fans, and no intakes, the temperature inside the case gets to 50C, with a K8 CPU running at 60-70C... I wouldn't worry about your temps!

Next up to learn how to work with Linux as that seems to be the best OS for F@H SMP clients. :D

I gave up on getting FAH onto DSL [Damn Small Linux], could you post a guide, if you get it working, as you will probably have more success than I did...

[lord_farfig]

Yeah as I'm going to weasl out of cutting the hole for the 120! Next up to learn how to work with Linux as that seems to be the best OS for F@H SMP clients. :D

:D Go Linux!
I have a quad-core (and a dual dual-core) box(s) running 4 clients. The SMP client for Linux I believe only runs on a 64-bit distribution, I dabbled with it briefly but some applications I use don't work under 64-bit. Now my box is headless so I do all my work remotely via SSH (PuTTY) and even if you would hook a monitor up it's only command line.

I've used the Windows SMP client too, it worked pretty well. (on both 32-bit and 64-bit Vista)

I've had excellent luck with finstall on Linux, it's a simple script which will download the latest F@H client (for as many cores/CPUs are detected - up to 8) walk you through some configurations and then make a service install file for you, so it will automatically start when you boot!

If you need some help in that department, I'll try and help best I can! You can also try checking out the F@H/Linux Wiki.

[jedihobbit]

:D Go Linux!.......................If you need some help in that department, I'll try and help best I can! You can also try checking out the F@H/Linux Wiki.

Thanks for the offer as I'm sure I'm tap the source!! This project is on hold til next week due to Linux, me, and my hdd not gettting along. :( And since this is a clandestine built I need to wait til the wife goes back up to MD next week to play with it! :p

[jedihobbit]

As of right now it appears the OS has loaded and think I found one of my chief errors.........

After deleting the ntfs formated partition as noorman from pcper suggested and went back into the install I again ended up with the "too small" flag. Then I notice the choice that said "guided using largest available" or something like that. Bingo baby!!! I now have a dual boot system with Linux!! :D

Had to sit through 194 "updates" and that took a bit of time. :rolleyes:

Also this may be the excuse to give Firefox a try. :( However after looking through the pull down menus I feel like a frighten kid getting ready to jump in the deep end of the pool for the first time! ;)

[jedihobbit]

Thought I'd share this with Linux users thanks to mr_raider at pcper! :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr4xH2ezR1o

[lowteckh]

Also this may be the excuse to give Firefox a try. :( However after looking through the pull down menus I feel like a frighten kid getting ready to jump in the deep end of the pool for the first time! ;)

You'll be very happy with it. I can't stand IE and the massive number of windows it'll create - tabs ftw, only IE doesn't make use of them very well. I'd recommended getting Tabs Mix Plus and Download Statusbar add-ons.

[jedihobbit]

;1033368140']..........I gave up on getting FAH onto DSL [Damn Small Linux], could you post a guide, if you get it working, as you will probably have more success than I did...

I've had mixed results that I think are more operator issues as opposed to OS! :(

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FoldingAtHome/origami This appears to be a simple and usable "method" to use Ubunto (for me 8.04.1 for my SMP). The only problem is I played with both the F@H site's install and mixed this in so I'm not totally sure what I have! If I were to do it from scratch the origami method would be it!

Seems to be folding fairly well as I think I got it started around 01:00 EST and it now sits at approximatly 69% complete. :D

lord_farfig do have a guestion for ya if you're into the F@H thing. Initally I set Kermit to run as a service as it is to be a dedicated system. It seems my WU started when I loaded the origami program and didn't get my passkey in the -configonly initially. I have been told I could do this if I stop the program and go into the config part. However I haven't found out how to stop F@H as a service and CNTRL+C doesn't do the trick. :( :( :confused:

[jedihobbit]

Finished my first WU and half way through the second! :D

[Elledan]

Congrats :)

[lord_farfig]

I've had mixed results that I think are more operator issues as opposed to OS! :(

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FoldingAtHome/origami This appears to be a simple and usable "method" to use Ubunto (for me 8.04.1 for my SMP). The only problem is I played with both the F@H site's install and mixed this in so I'm not totally sure what I have! If I were to do it from scratch the origami method would be it!

Seems to be folding fairly well as I think I got it started around 01:00 EST and it now sits at approximatly 69% complete. :D

lord_farfig do have a guestion for ya if you're into the F@H thing. Initally I set Kermit to run as a service as it is to be a dedicated system. It seems my WU started when I loaded the origami program and didn't get my passkey in the -configonly initially. I have been told I could do this if I stop the program and go into the config part. However I haven't found out how to stop F@H as a service and CNTRL+C doesn't do the trick. :( :( :confused:

I haven't played with origami at all... but when you "install" finstall it makes files which install the services. The services get loaded into "/etc/init.d" and for "finstall" it creates a "folding" file in that folder which is the service.

When my box boots it starts that service... so I can stop it by running
sudo /etc/init.d/folding stop
which will stop the service. And replacing 'stop' with 'start' will resume the F@H processes. Mine is all command line, so you might have to open a Terminal window to execute this command. Or navigate to "/etc/init.d" to see which services are installed.

Hope this helped.

[Zuriick]

that power supply is unique. i have never seen that.

btw, how do you get into folding@home? is it something simple?
i hear people here and there talking about fah

[jedihobbit]

that power supply is unique. i have never seen that.

Yeah it is rather unique in the fact they also make a 400W version! It really helps when converting an older mATX PSU only system to a newer mobo. :)

btw, how do you get into folding@home? is it something simple?
i hear people here and there talking about fah

Give it a read! http://folding.stanford.edu/English/Main I've found the Linux side rather "hard" as I tend to be software challanged, however If you're running something like a 8800 or 9600 on the nvidia side or something like my 3870 it is REAL simple! :D

[Zuriick]

i know this is still unrelated to your process in your log, but i can't find the answer.
how long does the process take to fold? does it depend on my system?

[jedihobbit]

i know this is still unrelated to your process in your log, but i can't find the answer.
how long does the process take to fold? does it depend on my system?

The question is related because that is what Kermit was built for! :D Yes the time it takes to "fold" one work unit (WU) will vary from system to system. Kermit was built to fold using the CPU (SMP) but the "new" quick method is using ones GPU. My SMP takes a little over 24 hours to do a WU, however my 3870 averages about 5 - 6 hours per unit.

While Kermit folds for pcper's Folding Frogs -- [H] has its own great group and thread http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1339662. Eventually I hope to have a system to add to the [H]orde because of the help I've gotten here. ;)

[Xilikon]

that power supply is unique. i have never seen that.

btw, how do you get into folding@home? is it something simple?
i hear people here and there talking about fah

We have our own F@H team and we are the #1 worldwide. We have a sub-forum dedicated to it in Distributed Computing (http://www.hardforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=32) that you can come to read the [H]orde guides (http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1339662) that I wrote (this will answer all your questions in one thread). If you still have unanswered questions, our teammates is always eager to answer anything, even dumb ones ;)

http://www.hardfolding.com/fhtag.php/mem/7959/16/2.png (http://www.hardfolding.com/fh_stats/?pz=102&tnum=33&id=7959)

[Zuriick]

thanks for the answers, mates.
good luck on your build jedi, ill be checking back here for your updates.

i am interested in throwing some spare parts together to fold. and maybe join the team.

cheers

[jedihobbit]

Please do it is for a good cause and as Xilikon says [H] has a great folding team! :D

For those that might be interested, Kermit will be left "as is" with the 2 x 60mm fans (1 = in & 1 = out) with the drive bay door propped open. Will see what happens when the warmer weather returns....... may get off the butt and do the dremel deal for the 120. :p Also right now it needs to be kept out of the wife's view!! :eek: ;)

However I will be looking for a possible Kermit graphic or some kind of frog to go on the side! :rolleyes:

[Elledan]

You're afraid the wife will steal the system and use it herself? :p

[jedihobbit]

You're afraid the wife will steal the system and use it herself? :p

Nope! She's the type that hits me with the two basic...
1. Why do you need more than one computer, and.........
2. Why can't you just buy a built computer like everyone else? :p

Kermit is a build that wasn't supposed to exsist!

[Elledan]

Good thing it's small and easy to hide, then ;) And else... if you dress it up cute enough you may get to keep it :D