Replace LCD options??? Gives me headache!

[the_slayer]

Hi,

I have a Samsung Syncmaster 205BW and i find that i can only look at it for a while before it starts to make me feel like crap - headache and eyes feel dizzy!

i used to work as a graphic designer and so i have spent a lot of time staring at a monitor over the last few years! Optometrist says my eye sight is fine and the actual eye is good and healthy...

i have been reading up on photosensitivity and was wondering if maybe that is to blame???

are there any other options for me to fix this issue as my profession requires me to use computers... projector? cover for my LCD? different LCD?

cheers!

[JaguarSKX]

Are you sensitive to florescent light? Or perhaps the screen is too bright?

Try lowering the brightness if you think the monitor is too bright.

Florescent lights, while emitting white light (called 'cool white), only uses a very, very small fragment of the full spectrum of colors to make white light. That may be causing you eye fatigue. One way to determine if this could be the case is to trying using your PC in room that is well lit by daylight. Daylight is "full spectrum" which includes all the colors of the rainbow combined to form white light.

Alternatively, you can buy a full spectrum florescent lightbulb which imitates daylight. It costs about $16 - $28 in the US.

[the_slayer]

maybe...

but i dont have a fluorescent light in my room... just a normal incandescent light globe...

[ilarehson]

as Jag said,

I would try lowering the brightness of the monitor, or perhaps trying to add an anti-glare/transition shield to the monitor?

[Comixbooks]

LCDs are inferior technology sold for high profit magins I had my fill of them untill something different like OLED or SEDs.

Projectors make for good replacements for TVs but I wouldn't use them for a monitor unless you have the room.

[the_slayer]

so are you using crt then?

someone else suggested that it could be that i have a TN panel and they had issues with TN panels giving them headaches... they blamed it on the viewing angle capabilities....? and suggested that S-IPS/S-PVA would be better for the eyes???

[JaguarSKX]

After doing some further research on your monitor I have found out that it uses Samsung's LTM201M2 LCD panel.

That particular TN LCD panel uses a dithering technology called Hi-FRC (high frame rate control) as opposed to the typical "checker board" dithering tech. In a typical "checkerboard" dithering process image that the LCD display is like a checkerboard. If the display were to display blue, then all the "boxes" will display blue. If the color red was to be displayed then all the "boxes" will display red.

Let suppose that the LCD panel cannot display the color purple in each individual "box", however, blending blue and red creates purple. Therefore each alternating box will display blue then red and when viewed from a far enough distance the two colors seems to blend together to create the color purple.

Hi-FRC does dithering differently. Instead of creating a checkerboard mesh of blue and red to create purple, each individual pixel flashes very quickly between blue and red. So fast that your brain registers just the color purple. I believe this is the cause of your headaches / eye fatigues. If you recall, back in the mid late nineties there was a medical report lease regarding video games with lots of flashing colors cause a few people to have epileptic seizures. Not very fun.

My advice would be to buy another monitor that is not TN to avoid another panel that uses Hi-FRC. The various types of VA and IPS panels can actually produce 16.7m colors without dithering of any sort and therefore, you should not suffer any ill effects.

[the_slayer]

wow! thanks heaps for that JaguarSKX! i appreciate you looking into that for me!

i guess my next tasks is trying to find one of these other monitor types that isnt going to blow my bank at the moment... i figure i can sell this one for a bit to help buying a new one...

i have looked around and am finding that most vendors and sites dont actually tell you what panel type it is!

are there any VA IPS panels that anyone could recommend that is on the cheaper side? monitor size doesnt really bother me as long as it is at least 19" or bigger.

[JaguarSKX]

Sadly most "small" widescreen LCD monitors use TN panels.

Your best bet is the 22" HP LP2275W which uses a S-PVA panel and sells for $380 + shipping taxes (if any). But there is a $30 rebate for it.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824176098

Alternatively you can buy the Lenovo ThinkVision L220x. It also uses a S-PVA panel, but instead of a 1680 x 1050 resolution found on all 22" LCD monitors, the L220x's resolution is 1920 x 1200. Sounds great at first perhaps, but text will most likely seem a bit too tiny, unless you are used to using a laptop with a high resolution screen. Price is $355.

http://www.provantage.com/lenovo-4433hb2~7IBML02E.htm

[JaguarSKX]

If dishing out $300+ is a little too steep then you can buy a refurbished Dell 2007WFP. It uses a S-PVA panel, or if you are lucky you may get one that comes with a S-IPS panel. The cost is $182, it probably comes with a 90 day warranty. Call them about it.

http://www.ascendtech.us/itemdesc.asp?ic=M20DEL2007WFP

[the_slayer]

cheers! im probably looking between the $300 - $500 mark once i sell my current monitor...

what about the dell 2007FP?

[itachi183]

O.O;;

the t220 has a "LTM220M21" panel, does that do the Hi-Frec thing? lol

edit// great, now I'll never feel right looking at TN's again, i'll be looking real close to see if I can see it all the time

[ZealPath]

I have to say I found this very informative as well, I have been pulling my hair out with my Dell E228WFP trying to find a way to make text more readable and not constantly have a headache but nothing seems to work. Sure enough it uses a TN panel, no wonder it was so cheap, I guess it pays to do your research. Not sure if this monitor uses Hi-FRC but I wouldn't be surprised, I've gone to bed with a headache every for the past week, guess I should return it while I can.

[the_slayer]

i keep reading about people saying they get the monitor from dell and then check what panel type then return if its not the one they wanted??? how do they just return it for no reason?

[itachi183]

Man, I'm wondering if this is going to affect me now. I had my sight set on the T220 (which does it) I currently have a MVA panel and after spending countless hours working / watch shows / playing games I have never gotten any headaches or anything. But if TN panels mess with your eyes like that, it must make your brain work more. Kinda scared of buying a TN now lol

[JaguarSKX]

cheers! im probably looking between the $300 - $500 mark once i sell my current monitor...

what about the dell 2007FP?

I believe there are two different versions of the Dell 2007FP; S-PVA and IPS. Dell used both panels in this particular monitor. You will not know which one you are buying unless you are buying one second hand and the seller guarantees it is an IPS panel. Either way at least it is not using a TN panel.

[the_slayer]

thats true... i read that you can tell from the end of the serial number on the box as to what panel it is... i also read that PVA tends to be a lot brighter whereas IPS has the awesome color and image quality... i read a review where someone had both versions next to eachother and they could see very obvious differences between the 2!

[JaguarSKX]

O.O;;

the t220 has a "LTM220M21" panel, does that do the Hi-Frec thing? lol

edit// great, now I'll never feel right looking at TN's again, i'll be looking real close to see if I can see it all the time

Very, very little info is available on the web. It seems this panel uses Hi-FRC though.

The official model # is LTM220M2-L01.

If you are interested in a translated review of a monitor that uses this LCD panel then click the following:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=cs&u=http://www.svethardware.cz/artp.jsp%3Fdoc%3D7DD2A0EC2AA33703C1257365004F9757&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=8&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3DLTM220M2%2Bfrc%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG

[itachi183]

Is it bad for yours eyes / brain to look at monitors with Hi-FRC? actually shouldn't it be the same as CRT's? CRT flashes the image by 30 frames/sec or so..

[JaguarSKX]

^^^^

Generally no, however fast flashing lights could affect some people like the OP. That's probably why it causes him headaches and eye fatigue.

While CRTs can refresh the screen 85MHz - 100MHz on average that alone probably doesn't affect many people especially if it is constantly displaying a single color. But LCD panels with Hi-FRC flashes between two colors to get the desired color (like blue and red to get purple in my example above) can probably increase chances (however small) of getting headaches.

Back in the mid/late nineties there were kids who got epileptic seizures when playing games (CRTs back then); I believe it was first documented with kids playing Nintendo. Because of this games now come with warnings.

From my KOTOR II manual:

PHOTOSENSITIVE SEIZURES -
A very small percentage of people may possibly experience a seizure when exposed to certain light patterns, flashing lights or other visual images that appear in computer games.... Reported seizures may have a variety of symptoms, including lightheadedness, altered vision, eye or face twitching, nausea, headaches, jerking or shaking of arms and legs, disorientation, confusion, or any involuntary movement or convulsions.

[Fangs404]

Is it bad for yours eyes / brain to look at monitors with Hi-FRC? actually shouldn't it be the same as CRT's? CRT flashes the image by 30 frames/sec or so..

I think that's part of the reason CRTs are hated so much - because they did give people headaches. I abhor CRTs for this very reason.

I'm actually running 2 24" Acers (P243W), and they use HiFRC. I actually really like it. It hasn't caused any headaches at all, and the dithering is noticeably improved over a standard TN. If you have to go with a TN, I actually recommend HiFRC.

[the_slayer]

so in my $400 price range and only looking at S-IPS or S-PVA what would you say would be the best bet?

dell?

[JaguarSKX]

Your best bet is the HP 2275W which uses a S-PVA panel. I mentioned it before (see post #9).

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824176098

[the_slayer]

does the brand AOC make any S-IPS or S-PVA panels? what are they like? anyone know?

or samsung 971PW... not sure if that is s-pva or not... cant find info on that model.

[the_slayer]

ideas on previous post???

[JaguarSKX]

AOC makes S-PVA panels under a license from Samsung, if I remember correctly.

They make A-MVA panels which are sorta similar to PVA panels. I don't really know the technical differences since I never researched that panel type.

[solaris54]

How about a HP 23" L2335 LCD for $175 shipped on Ebay. This is a IPS panel.

[ManCannon]

I wanted to bring this thread back because I'm in the same boat.

Just received my BenQ G2400W today, and at first I was extremely pleased with it because I needed it to do a lot (I use my monitor to watch movies and tv shows, play games, read, surf the net, write, and draw) and it was pretty damn good in every task I threw at it. Looked great with my movies, it's exceptional for my 360, and the colors are pretty vibrant. In some areas it's not as good as what I upgraded from, a Mitsubishi DiamondPro 930SB, but it's benefits far outweigh the few tradeoffs I knew I was making.

Well, that would be true, if it weren't for the fact that my head is pounding using it. I've tried everything, using it with the lights on, using it in the dark, turning the brightness way down, changing the angle, sitting up close, sitting far away. Makes absolutely no difference, the headache will not go away no matter what I do.

I'm not entirely surprised though, I had a feeling this might happen. About 5 years back I had a crappy HP 17" LCD (didn't even use DVI) and after 8 or so months I ended up selling it because it gave me a constant headache whenever I used it, that didn't subside for hours after I was done. I used the money from selling it to buy the 930SB, which served me quite well for 2 and a half years until it broke down. NEC/Mitsubishi did honor the warranty though, and fixed it without charging me shipping either way, which was nice. I would have been content using the 930SB forever, if it weren't for the fact that everything is designed with widescreen in mind these days, and I was in desperate need of a monitor with multiple inputs. So, I saved up some cash, read up on LCD's until my eyes bled, and grabbed this baby off ebay (because of the cash back deal and the fact that the guy was throwing in a 250GB portable HD as well, which I needed anyway) because it seemed to be the best monitor for my needs. I figured there had probably been a lot of advances since 2003 when I got that HP LCD, and that the headaches and eyestrain were probably due to that monitor's poor quality. I was wrong.

Now, here I sit with a throbbing headache, wishing I hadn't been so stupid. There's really no worse feeling than realizing you just spent $380 on something, only to discover it's not at at all what you wanted. And not because it doesn't perform, but because it makes your head hurt and your eyes feel tired as hell.

The funniest part of this is that I am not someone who's usually susceptible to things like this, not in the least. I've never had motion sickness, I rarely ever get headaches, fluorescent lights don't bother me, and at one point in my life I spent 4 years using a CRT set to a 60hz refresh rate (didn't know any better at the time), and it never once gave me a headache, it didn't irritate me one bit. I use my PSP all the time, and that has an LCD screen. The first day I had it, it did give me a minor headache, but it went away quickly and never came back. I've played 360 for hours on a friend's off brand cheap ass LCD TV, and it didn't cause me any problems. Hell, we even played a Wii hooked up with component to it, which looked like smeared ass but it didn't bother me in the slightest.

I am not a rich person, and this was a pretty big buy for me. I've been having a rough time in my personal life lately, and I bought this hoping to cheer myself up a bit. Now I feel even worse than I did before :(. Now my choices are to either deal with a never ending headache, or sell this thing off, eating at the very least a hundred bucks since it's now used. Awesome.