Another Vista thread

[mobusta1]

Before you read any further please note that I am not an XP fan boy. I am a stable computer fanboy who likes to run his apps with minimal problems. So please after reading this if you feel the need to flame me hit the X button on the top right of your screen. You could say that I haven't given vista enough time yet or to self tune itself or whatever but these are just my thoughts on the OS for the little time that i've used it. Again, I am not bashing this OS at all, on the contrary, I am actually asking for your thoughts, opinioins and any advice you may have for me.

I've built a new computer (e8400/4 gigs ddr1000/4870). Yesterday, I had XP 64 installed on my comp and thought it was great. I installed cod4 within like 4-5 minutes and was playing it at a great framerate. UT3 installed pretty fast and the load times where excellent. No issues whatsoever either driver related nor network related (I'll get to this in a bit). I was easily able to set a network up from my laptop to my desktop and transfer some of my music and movies etc so I could enjoy it on my 24incher that the new comp is hooked up too.

Today, after reading numerous threads in this forum about how excellent Vista x64 ultimate is and how great it is for gaming and how its gonna be the future I decided to give it a try. Good idea? Only time will tell.

Installing the OS I had no problems whatsoever (although at the initial start I did have some sort of memory error but I never saw that again, even after multiple restarts). I was able to install all my programs without a hiccup and life seemed pretty good.

Next I tried to set up the network, again, between my laptop (which is running xp pro 32bit) and the desktop with vista ultimate x64. Not as easy the second time. When I tried to access my desktop through my laptop it started asking me for a PW (never had this issue before with xp). It wouldn't let me view any of my files on my desktop until I made a PW on for my vista desktop.

Now, here is where I think the dealbreaker occurs. It took me almost 25 minutes to install crysis and almost 15 minutes to install cod4 where as when i was running xp 64 it only took me about 4-5 minutes like I said earlier. So vista is suppose to be better, smarter, and highly optimized, yet it takes 25 minutes to install a freakin game?! Wow. Generally, even most everyday apps just seem a LOT slower on this machine ever since I installed vista.

So in conclusion I'm not going to uninstall vista just yet I'm going to give it some time and see how it is in another few weeks. If things dont change than yes, I will probably go back to xp 64 bit. I know people will say I'm screwing myself over because vista is the future and that may be true. But this isn't the future, it is now, and maybe for now, XP is the way to go. Well, thats just what I think anyways. Take it how you want.

[Zorgonatis]

Your first issue, the network - Vista has completley overhauled the new network and where it may be a little harder, after a few goes you're easily up and running. First, to disable the password you simply turn off 'password protected sharing' in the network and sharing center.

Second, you go to the folder or harddrive you want to share, and go to the security tab, add 'Guest' as user, set relative permisssions (i suggest read only) and then share it. You should be good to go. (If you've mounted a HDD inside an NTFS folder, you will have to set both the folder and harddrive permissions. Found this out the hard way, a good few hours wasted).

Edit: as a tip, I suggest making a new folder with read and write permissions for Guest inside of your shared folder so that the guest (your laptop) can throw files onto your desktop without compromising security.

Installing, I have no idea - I've always had no trouble compared to XP - infact, often, it's been faster.
What are your system specs? There is more overhead with Vista, but after you've surpassed the general requirements you tend to get more speed out of the OS and things are generally more responsive.

Also, people are entirely correct when they say vista is more optimised, through use of SuperFetch mostly, which requires a week or two to get into your habbits and set itself up correctly.

[mobusta1]

I have an E8400 currently @3.0.... 2x2 gskill ddr1000..... GB p43 dsl....... and a 4870GPU

I think my specs are fine for vista 64... i just cant get over how slowwwww everything is. It's like the pace of a snail.

[SuperSubZero]

My rig has an E8400, 8GB of RAM, and an 8800GT. It does not exhibit any unusual slowness at all with Vista x64.

[JimmiG]

Now, here is where I think the dealbreaker occurs. It took me almost 25 minutes to install crysis and almost 15 minutes to install cod4 where as when i was running xp 64 it only took me about 4-5 minutes like I said earlier. So vista is suppose to be better, smarter, and highly optimized, yet it takes 25 minutes to install a freakin game?! Wow. Generally, even most everyday apps just seem a LOT slower on this machine ever since I installed vista.

Vista RTM *did* have some problems with file copy and some other file based tasks being a bit slow. So, make sure you install SP1. I think there is also one or two additional performance and compatibility improvement updates that you can get from Windows Update (just set it to download and install updates automatically and you won't have to bother).

In the device manager, make sure DMA mode is enabled for the DVD drive. For the harddrives, if you're using AHCI mode, make sure write cache is enabled and the drive is configured for high performance, not quick removal. I got better performance when using the AMD AHCI driver instead of the generic one.. Dunno if the same is true for Intel mobos and the Intel AHCI driver.

I have an older Athlon X2 system and I've never experienced this type of slowdowns... If anything, Vista feels more "snappy" than XP because of Superfetch and Aero (no more tearing, partially redrawn windows and "hall of mirrors" when moving windows around etc.).

[DeaconFrost]

First, make sure you have the drivers loaded in the proper order, such as chipset drivers first, and then the rest. Make sure you have SP1 on it as well, before loading anything else. SP1 first, chipset drivers next, and then the rest of the drivers, to simplify.

Second, I've always found that using accounts with passwords is not only a better security practice, but makes sharing files and mapping drives across Windows PCs much easier.

Anytime I install a new OS that I haven't used before, I always through it on once to test the process and get it stable, and then I wipe it out and start over, so I have a nice clean install. The beauty of Vista is you get 30 days after the install to do this testing before you wipe it out or activate it.

[mobusta1]

Well, here's a problem I've noticed and this may well be the problem as to why everything is so slow. My computers HD light is always flickering. It's almost doing doing something even I haven't touched it for a good 5 minutes. I'm using the WD 640GB driver.

[Joe Average]

All I'm gonna say is:

Vista ain't XP, period.

Well, ok, I'll say more:

You just installed Vista today, so while the post isn't really saying anything that most of us haven't heard a few hundred times (if not thousands of times in multiple forums, actually), it is a bit pre-emptive. If you'd written it a week after installing Vista, then it would have a lot more punch and weight behind it.

The hard drive activity is obviously SuperFetch and Search in action (more accurately the Indexing Service which is indexing every byte of every file on the drive or drives in the machine), and again the basic statement holds true: Vista ain't XP. Vista doesn't sit still, it does things, it tunes itself, it makes itself faster over time, it makes your apps load faster, it makes everything faster over time - this activity you're noting is perfectly normal operation for Vista and it's how things are done now.

The advice given about Vista SP1 is extremely important: in fact I'd hesitate to say go out of your way to acquire a proper Vista SP1 integrated installation DVD, whatever it takes, and go from there. The difference between installing Vista RTM and Vista SP1 on the same hardware is rather dramatic, even after just 1 day of using it so, since you didn't specify whether you've installed Vista RTM or Vista SP1 could be very relevant to the issues you've noted just today alone.

Vista just takes time to get itself situated, and it takes time for you as a user to learn things, new methods, and the ins and outs of this new OS. Make no mistake, it's not a rehash of past OSes from Microsoft: I consider Vista to be effectively a new product and as such it will take you time to attune yourself to Vista just as Vista will tune itself to how you use your computer - it literally will watch your patterns of usage and behavior and adjust itself accordingly, even down to the times of day you use the PC more often than not.

I personally would suggest reading through the stickies here, especially the ones related to UAC and Admin rights (yes, I wrote 'em) and read the tip one as well for making installing software nearly painless (yes, I wrote that one too). Read all of 'em if they're related to Vista, it can't hurt.

I'll stick with XP x64 myself, but Vista is coming on strong nowadays as it gets the kinks worked out. Now it's the people that have to change and adapt to the new OS and how things are done now.

Good luck...

[mobusta1]

Thanks for your advice Joe, I appreciate it. Just to clarify a few things the install that I did WAS with sp1 and I have dled all the updates since.

I see what you mean about the HD being active because of superfetch. Thanks for clarifying that up.

If you could please post all the vista help related topics here (they aren't stickied anymore and if I do a search a lot of non related crap comes up) that be great.

Like I said in my OP I have no intention of deleting Vista Ultimate x64 from my computer just yet. I'm definately going to give it atleast a week or two before I decide anything.

[Vashypooh]

Superfetch is grinding your HD and it is also trying to defrag on the fly a bit too. In a week it will be faster than XP and you will understand =P, also never ever do a shutdown of the PC, always just use hibernate or suspend it with the advanced suspend mode. There is no reason to shutdown ever. It will only slow down the PC. Restart whenever you need too, but just don't shutdown because then it has to recache into superfetch and everything else a restart does.

[Joe Average]

Sticky: FAQ Links - This is where the forum FAQs are. (http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=937835) :D

Second post from the top, just doesn't quite identify itself as a STICKY like some forums do with big bold titles. Hmmm... we'll see what happens as I just made that suggestion in the Feedback forum. There are lots of other threads related to Vista that would be considered very useful but alas there's no specific list of them, and there can only be so many Stickies I suppose. If you have something very specific you want to get more info on, just ask. Yours certainly won't be the last "Another Vista thread" I promise. ;)

The "Vista, Admin rights, UAC, and You" and "The best Vista tip I can offer and one that is sorely needed" (disclaimer: I wrote those so, I'm just telling you) received a lot of favorable "reviews" for their content hence they became Stickies at one point until the Mods consolidated all of them into a single thread. All of them are useful, obviously, but those two deal with specific aspects of Vista that usually drive new Vista users up the proverbial wall:

UAC and software that causes UAC to keep prompting when executed. Once you understand what UAC is supposed to do, what its true purpose is - and most people still don't have a fucking clue about that one - it becomes a lot easier to use Vista on a daily basis.

UAC isn't supposed to make Vista more secure, contrary to popular opinion. UAC is there to alert the User that some application is trying to do something which typically would be an action (in previous versions of Windows) that more than likely would never be noticed by the User, aka virus activity, trojans, worms, errant or badly coded apps, and generally anything that's trying to get in under the wire, one could say.

Does UAC get annoying? Only when you're just setting up a new machine, I'd say and so would many others that know how to work with it. Using the instructions in "The best Vista tip I can offer and one that is sorely needed" you'll learn the best method of installing software even today. When Vista first appeared a lot of software developer's hadn't quite gotten up to speed yet and remade their software installers so they'd work with UAC instead of against it. What that led to was a lot of software that would prompt you by triggering UAC before the software install actually started, and possibly several more times as the installation progressed depending on how complex it is/was.

Nowadays, with Vista having been out >1.5 years now, some software still doesn't install properly unless you do it by running the installer itself in Admin mode. This causes some issues for some people that still are in the "XP mentality" which also means previous versions of Windows. When I say Vista isn't XP, it's not just a passing remark to make a quick joke or whatever, I'm not being facetious when I say it.

I'm dead serious because things are simply done differently now, that's all.

Vista does not have a true Administrator account anymore (well, it can if you fuck around with all the settings but doing that ends up "breaking" it and that's just not a good idea) so to do most anything that requires Admin access the process has to be elevated to Admin level - this is a good thing because it's a one time elevation for the specific process requesting it, and yes UAC will alert you about precisely what's asking for permission/elevation.

*nix based and derivative OSes have been doing this stuff for years with su or sudo - it's typically a one time thing and elevates the process long enough to do things with Admin/root privilege then wham, it's back to normal User elevation.

Really, this is a good thing for Windows, regardless of what ignorant opinions out there may offer up.

If you've got questions, just ask. Can't get much simpler than that. :D

[Vashypooh]

Uh, UAC makes vista a lot more secure. Don't know where your getting your facts. That would be why when they were testing rootkits and such they had to disable uac. UAC caught every single one of them.

[mobusta1]

Ok now I've run into another problem with vista. It has to do with the sleep mode. It goes into sleep mode fine but once I want to turn it back on after a few minutes I get a black screen with vertical lines and it just hangs up. I have to reset the computer to get it to work again. Any ideas?

[Joe Average]

Uh, UAC makes vista a lot more secure. Don't know where your getting your facts. That would be why when they were testing rootkits and such they had to disable uac. UAC caught every single one of them.

You mean UAC notified the User that something was trying to execute itself in the background (the rootkit installer was trying to complete its task).

The issue with UAC being considered as making Vista more secure is a bit of a fallacy as UAC only stops something from executing as long as that prompt sits there asking the User to Continue or Cancel. If the User clicks Continue, UAC hasn't done a damned thing for security, now has it? See how that works?

As I said, UAC's primary responsibility is notifying the User that some attempt at something is happening in the background or sometimes even in the foreground. It's there to say "HEY MAN, PAY ATTENTION, SOMETHING'S UP" but once that's accomplished, it's still up to the User to let the activity or task follow through or cancel it outright (hence stopping it at that point but not before).

[Cyrilix]

Disable indexing. Superfetch shouldn't do that much to your hard drive. Then again, by default, indexing is disabled on everything except your "My" folders, I believe.

[LstOfTheBrunnenG]

Ok now I've run into another problem with vista. It has to do with the sleep mode. It goes into sleep mode fine but once I want to turn it back on after a few minutes I get a black screen with vertical lines and it just hangs up. I have to reset the computer to get it to work again. Any ideas?Check for BIOS updates. Try disabling hybrid sleep.

[bigdogchris]

I haven't had any Vista x64 issues. The extent of what I've had to do to the OS to get it the way I want is to install DX9 runtimes, reinstall flash & shockwave, disable UAC, disable windows defender dynamic scanning and adjust power settings (disable sleep mode and down hdd to conserve energy etc...) that's about it. Everything has worked, game wise, hardware wise.

I treat the system the exact same way I did with XP 32 for 6 years and have not had any problems. As a matter of fact, Vista x64 is the best OS I have ever used. It's beautiful, quick, snappy, stable. Everything you would want.

Between my system and my cousins system, of the issues that people blame Vista for that we've found to be not related to the OS at all was blue screens, lock ups, system hangs. All were corrected by exchanging hardware that was bad. Since then my system has been 100% stable for over 100 days (runs 24 hours a day) and his has been for 60 days (runs 18 hours/day).

VISTA x64 ROCKS!:D :D :D

[Arainach]

The issue with UAC being considered as making Vista more secure is a bit of a fallacy as UAC only stops something from executing as long as that prompt sits there asking the User to Continue or Cancel. If the User clicks Continue, UAC hasn't done a damned thing for security, now has it? See how that works?And if the user allows a process to run as root on Linux or Mac OS X, they lose security too there. What's your point? Requiring confirmation is inherently, undeniably more secure than just letting everything run as admin without confirmation. You can argue about the amount of security, but it's impossible to deny that it's more secure.

[ajm786]

Now, here is where I think the dealbreaker occurs. It took me almost 25 minutes to install crysis and almost 15 minutes to install cod4 where as when i was running xp 64 it only took me about 4-5 minutes like I said earlier. So vista is suppose to be better, smarter, and highly optimized, yet it takes 25 minutes to install a freakin game?! Wow. Generally, even most everyday apps just seem a LOT slower on this machine ever since I installed vista.



Another thing you need to make sure of. Go to device manager, right click on your hard drives, click on the Policies tab, and make sure that Enable Advanced Performance is CHECKED. Vista doesn't make this checked by default, and a lot of people lose probably anywhere between 15-25% performance with this unchecked.