XP or XP 64

[Roger Huston]

All,

I am doing a new build with quality equipment, which is why I am here. I can't afford to run Vista as it isn't compatible with MS own products like Windows Home Server. Also, since I work in the security industry, I know that the new Windows Filtering Platform (the new API that MS wants all security companies to use), even with SP1 is just not up to snuff. That means that companies that try and use it have big problems and the companies that don't use it have problems. I will stick with XP and TDI hooking for now.

Anyways, I am looking at the Rampage Formula DDR2 board and the thought of using 8GB is appealing for use with Photoshop, etc.

How does XP vs XP 64 compare?

Roger

[mcravenufo]

If you are going to use 8G of memory then 64 bit is a must.

[InCogneato]

you need 64 bit for all that RAM and i highly suggest Vista x64 over XP x64

[SockMan!]

Right. If you've got more than 4 gigs of RAM then you should have a 64-bit OS. Whether that's XP or Vista is up to you. There's nothing wrong with XP x64 if that's what you want.

[Hurin]

Been using 64-bit XP for about eight months now and love it. I had to replace my mouse. . . but other than that, driver support has been on par with XP 32-bit or Vista.

The only other issue I've had is iTunes not supporting XP 64-bit. But there are work-arounds for that where you can modify the iTunes installer to install the 64-bit Vista version properly.

Best,

H

[Roger Huston]

All,

I understand I need XP64 to run 8GB. I just wonder if it works as well with everything like XP. If XP 64 is not quite as good, then I will go with less RAM.

I also understand that others like Vista. As I said, I know about some severe issues with some of the new kernel level API's that aren't really working. We tried to help MS fix them, but dealing with MS on that level is not easy.

[SuperSubZero]

Define "everything"..

Will every single application ever made that runs in XP32 run in XP64? No.

Will the vast majority of XP apps that don't directly touch the kernel, install 32-bit drivers, or try to integrate with the shell work in XP64? Most likely.

[altcon]

Well I've been on XP64 a long while and I'm very happy.
Today was a new lesson for me - apparently HP have very shoddy driver support so I bough and returned an HP printer in 3 hours...
I guess I'm sticking with Canon for 64 bit support.
I'd recommend it to anyone, I like it better than my 64 bit Vista.

[arik100]

i would suggest vista 64 over xp 64
but just remember that 64 versions of OS isn't fully supported by all 3rd programs
moreover i wouldn't suggest using 64 OS at all if you don't have more than 6 , in your situation i guess it's not the case.
just so you know , if you will stack with normal xp/vista it will support MAX 3gb

[Joe Average]

Since the OP said "no Vista" then that's that: XP x64 is the solution, and a perfect choice for screamin' performance on that hardware. And you can buy it, the full retail version, for about $80 if you look around.

Drivers simply aren't an issue like they were when it was first released back in 2003 (right after Windows Server 2003, because XP x64 is based on that OS, not on XP Pro 32 bit), so there is no reason not to use XP x64 these days if you want the best possible performance you're going to squeeze out of today's high end quality hardware - and the OP said he was getting quality hardware.

8GB of RAM, with a RAMdisk set up for using maybe 4GB of it as a scratch disk for Photoshop = shit happens fast, much faster than you can really imagine unless you've seen it in action. I build machines on a regular basis with 4 or 8GB of RAM, even 16GB sometimes, and using a RAMdisk to set up a huge chunk of RAM as a scratch disk... my god, multihundred megabyte images literally blink onscreen. Even Raptors in RAID can't load stuff that fast. Nothing beats a RAMdisk for serious photographic work... nothing.

Anywho... that's the suggestion.

[DeaconFrost]

I can't afford to run Vista as it isn't compatible with MS own products like Windows Home Server
Oh yeah? Vista x64 isn't compatible with the backup program, but aside from that it is fully compatible. Power Pack 1 will hopefully fix this.

As for the security, since this is probably a home system, standard protection software and a home router will work just fine keeping VIsta secure.

[Roger Huston]

Oh yeah? Vista x64 isn't compatible with the backup program, but aside from that it is fully compatible. Power Pack 1 will hopefully fix this.
.

Still can't believe that MS created the thing and have it NOT support the OS they have been pushing on us for over a year. Makes absolutely no sense. How can MS expect anyone to support Vista x64 if they don't even do it?

[DeaconFrost]

Think of who WHS is geared to. It was intended for the average joe to have a method of backing up their downloaded mp3s and vacation photos. Vista x64 still isn't really used, aside from the enthusiast, unfortunately.

I agree, in part, that x64 support should have been included, or added, but WHS has a much larger issue that needs to be addressed first.

If you really want to rant about something WHS related, focus on why the data corruption bug hasn't been fixed yet.

[Roger Huston]

Well I've been on XP64 a long while and I'm very happy.
Today was a new lesson for me - apparently HP have very shoddy driver support so I bough and returned an HP printer in 3 hours...
I guess I'm sticking with Canon for 64 bit support.
I'd recommend it to anyone, I like it better than my 64 bit Vista.

I need two of these machines and both of us have HP MFP. Thanks for the heads up on the printers.

- Roger

[Joe Average]

... It was intended for the average joe...

Hey now... dem's fightin' woids... :D

As for printer drivers, in my experience over the years, HP has been the only consistent provider of 64 bit printer drivers since XP x64 first came out in March/April 2003. But that's just me...

[DeaconFrost]

Hey now... dem's fightin' woids... :D
I actually had that typed out as Joe Average, to be a zing in your direction, but then i changed it back. :D

[JC634]

The only driver issue I've had with XP 64 is wireless adapters. VERY few drivers exist. I was able to use moded drivers with a Linksys USB adapter, but that is the only one I am aware of.

Of course, if you do not use wireless access, than this is a moot point...

[Archer75]

Still can't believe that MS created the thing and have it NOT support the OS they have been pushing on us for over a year. Makes absolutely no sense. How can MS expect anyone to support Vista x64 if they don't even do it?

Actually WHS had x64 support. But there were some last minute changes to x64 Vista that borked the WHS connector software so they had to rewrite it. Power Pack 1 was done back in January. They were waiting on the corruption bug to be fixed before releasing the power pack. They will allow the public to start beta testing it in a matter of weeks.

However WHS works just fine with Vista x64. I use it and run WHS. No, it won't automatically backup your x64 machine(XP either) but you can backup your Vista machine in other ways to it. I store all my files on WHS and have them duplicated. I stream HD movies from it to my HTPC mostly. But it holds my music, pictures, videos, books and software.

[Blue Falcon]

There seems to be a lot of hatred for XP x64, but that stems from very poor driver availablity for the first year after the 64-bit version of XP was released. However, these days odds are if your hardware has a Vista x64 driver then it has an XP x64 driver. So that issue is nearly moot.

Windows XP x64 with the latest service pack is based around Windows Server 2003 and as such it is FAST and stable and being maintained concurrently with Win2K3. If you have no use for DirectX 10 gaming at the moment and if you don't need any of the 'new features' that Vista provides (90% of which is eye candy) then I say go for XP x64. It can be found very cheap and is quite robust for most hardware configurations.

In the end I'd say don't trust a damn thing anyone tells you here, myself included. TRY IT FOR YOURSELF. I believe Microsoft still offers a 120 day free trial download of XP x64, although I can't seem to find it at the moment.

[altcon]

Hey now... dem's fightin' woids... :D

As for printer drivers, in my experience over the years, HP has been the only consistent provider of 64 bit printer drivers since XP x64 first came out in March/April 2003. But that's just me...
They have a Beta drivers from 2006 listed for XP64 for some of their printers, with no updates.
And for some printers they don't even have that, I talked to a customer support representative before I returned the damn thing, they just don't care about XP64 and further development isn't planned on most models.
I also remember when Vista was launched HP customer support being one of the first to tell customers "We're not planning on supporting X product on Vista, Time to upgrade" (I was managing a small PC shop back then).
Anywhoots, it's best to check before you switch, if they have any kind of support it's easy enough to find it on their main US site.

[Joe Average]

Pssstt... I'll let you in on a little secret:

Vista x64 drivers... they work for XP x64 too... actually, most of the XP x64 driver development was just ported over to Vista x64... it's the same stuff. :D

Also, note that drivers (the things that let the printer actually print content from the PC) != all the bloated shit HP and other OEMs throw in nowadays. My personal choice lately was a Konica-Minolta PagePro 1350W monochrome laser printer I found on Craig's List for $30. Works great, and get this: the drivers - meaning everything that's necessary to actually print something - fit on 2 floppies. It's barely a 2.5MB download, they install in like 6 seconds time (compare that with 4-5 mins for HP's crap) and they work flawlessly.

Oh, the days of simple efficient software and working drivers are fading fast... too fast.

[Roger Huston]

Actually WHS had x64 support. But there were some last minute changes to x64 Vista that borked the WHS connector software so they had to rewrite it. Power Pack 1 was done back in January. They were waiting on the corruption bug to be fixed before releasing the power pack. They will allow the public to start beta testing it in a matter of weeks.

However WHS works just fine with Vista x64. I use it and run WHS. No, it won't automatically backup your x64 machine(XP either) but you can backup your Vista machine in other ways to it. I store all my files on WHS and have them duplicated. I stream HD movies from it to my HTPC mostly. But it holds my music, pictures, videos, books and software.

1. If you took at look at DE, you would understand that it's flawed at its very core. Be VERY careful if you use it. I don't trust it. I have seen WAY too many people lose entire directory structures of files. I use a RAID 5 array and no DE. Unless they use a simultaneous write scheme at the OS kernel level I doubt it will work. There are just some programs that do not release access to files where a delayed write methodology will work.

2. PP1 sure keep everyone using Vista 64 from using it. Good strategy. MS might as well throw in the towel and try again. Hey, 6 years wasn't enough time to get Vista done, anyone think 3 years is enough time for them to get Windows 7 done?

Roger

[Archer75]

I'm not sure what you mean, PP1 is so that x64 users can backup using WHS(amongst many other things). How does it keep x64 users from using it? x64 users can use WHS now with no problems. And even manage it remotely. The only thing that won't work currently is the backups from the server. Not a big deal. Again, you can just backup your x64 OS to it using whatever software you choose.

Yes, duplication, as well as the corruption bug fix which is partially related to that, are kernel level. That's why it's taking so long to come out with the fix. Kernel changes require extensive testing.

I've been using WHS since beta, no problems. I have 7 hard drives in mine at the moment. All different sizes. It's great.

[vsrdan]

you need 64 bit for all that RAM and i highly suggest Vista x64 over XP x64

Avoid Vista x64 like a plague. It sucks!!!!

[DeaconFrost]

Avoid Vista x64 like a plague. It sucks!!!!
Avoid people who don't know what they are talking about!!!! They suck!!!!!!

[obviouslytom]

At home I have 2 machines that have XP 32bit and at work I have XP 64bit and have yet to notice any speed difference between any of them.

Now my main desktop at home has Vista Business 32bit and I have the exact same programs at home as I do here at work and I can tell you that it is faster on Vista then XP 64bit.

Both machines are Core2 Quads with 4gb of ram. The only difference is at work I have a Nvidia Quadro and at home I have an ATI x1950 Pro

[altcon]

Pssstt... I'll let you in on a little secret:

Vista x64 drivers... they work for XP x64 too... actually, most of the XP x64 driver development was just ported over to Vista x64... it's the same stuff. :D

Also, note that drivers (the things that let the printer actually print content from the PC) != all the bloated shit HP and other OEMs throw in nowadays. My personal choice lately was a Konica-Minolta PagePro 1350W monochrome laser printer I found on Craig's List for $30. Works great, and get this: the drivers - meaning everything that's necessary to actually print something - fit on 2 floppies. It's barely a 2.5MB download, they install in like 6 seconds time (compare that with 4-5 mins for HP's crap) and they work flawlessly.

Oh, the days of simple efficient software and working drivers are fading fast... too fast.
Wow, really? I didn't know.. You're so brilliant, can you teach me more?
BTW dumbass, Vista 64 HP drivers are also shoddy and far between, and bloatware is HP's middle name for ages now. But if you want to use the "COOL" features of their all in one series - you need full working drivers.
As I said to the OP, best to check b4.

[Blue Falcon]

BTW dumbass,

There is absolutely no call for that kind of attitude and name calling here at the [H]ardForums, so check it before you hit submit next time.

[Colin Dean]

I've been using XP 64-bit for approximately 6 months, primarily for gaming. I've observed a noticeable speed increase for games with 64-bit binaries (Crysis, UT2004, etc.) and, overall, the system runs better. That Windows 2003 code base is pretty solid ;-)

[WhiteZero]

I didnt really have any issue with Vista x64 drivers.
However, I'm about to switch back to XP for now myself. I'm wondering if I should go 32 or 64 bit...