Vista Activation and OEM Licensing

[W6FO]

I want to purchase an OEM version of Vista 64-bit Ultimate mainly because it is half the cost of the full retail box. I'm sorry, but I just can't spend $400 on an OS. However, the OEM version can't be transferred once installed. My concern is, I'm the type of person who usually reinstalls the OS a couple times a year either for hardware upgrades or just to clean out the system. Will this one-time activation limit me from re-installing or doing a major hardware change? I'm certain the activation applet does some sort of hardware checking/tracking to make all of this work.

Thanks

[dark_reign]

If you change out the motherboard it will need to be reactivated and a call to MS will be required. If they ask, just tell them that the previous motherboard died and they will let you reactivate. Some people have tested this with OEM versions of Vista without issues. Microsoft is only going to deny a reactivation if it's going on a lot with various motherboards.

[MrGuvernment]

as long as it is not a whole new system, they dont really care to put up a hassle, they could, but they dont...


if you change your mob and vid card and HD, they may say, um no....

[W6FO]

Ok thanks, I just read the FAQ too. I guess I will wait until I upgrade this motherboard (which will be soon). I don't think I'll be changing motherboards after that any time soon. :rolleyes:

[lloose]

I don't understand why people think that they can't change their computer and have Vista/XP install correctly.

I have installed the same copy of SP1 Xp home about 30ish times now since I bought the oem version back in 2002. I just installed it on a friends computer (still only on ONE computer, because I am using vista). I have done the same thing with Vista now too. I installed it on my wife's laptop because I got a copy of ultimate. I had to call MS customer service, but the only thing they asked was if it was installed on more than one computer. It wasn't and the nice lady on the other end gave me a new code with no hassles at all.

[Catweazle]

I don't understand why people think that they can't change their computer and have Vista/XP install correctly.


Because people get paranoid, listen to the advice of other paranoid people, and then sit there dreaming up their imaginings of what they should say when they ring up. The end result, for many people, is that they ring up projecting an air of guilt in their voice, triggering alarm bells in the head of the person receiving the call. That's to the benefit of the call centre, of course, because the call centre really has no idea what's at the other end of the line and relies upon what information is provided or intimated.

It starts off with the FUD gossip the user has heard, usually on the internet or in private conversation which somehow involve their 'techie expert' friend. Somewhere or other some self-styled 'bush-lawyers' have read an End User License Agreement and imagined all sorts of things that 'evil empire' Microsoft must be doing to people!

Then, of course, the person has been watching far too many movies and TV dramas, and has developed the idea that electronic 'snooping' has developed to the point where everything about them is known. That if they have to ring Microsoft to get Windows activated the person at the other end of the line must know every detail of what hardware is in their system, what software is loaded on it, whether or not those programs are pirated, if they've downloaded the last chart hit song rather than buying it, how many times a day they go to the crapper, the name of the office assistant they diddled out in the store room at the last office party.......


With that aura of fear developed, the person then undergoes all the fears and doubts and sits there trying to work out precisely what they need to say when they ring, to avoid having the 'evil empire' stop them from doing what they should be able to do. The end result of that, of course, is that when the person actually rings they're likely to end up sounding 'guilty' even if what they are doing is perfectly legitimate.



Let's strip away the paranoia and look at what actually does happen:

When a person rings the activation centre there are generally only two or three questions asked. The main one is "Is this copy of Windows only installed on one PC?" If you answer "No." to that one, and you haven't got a multi-user license, you won't get Windows activated. So you say "Yes." The second important question is What is the ID code on the screen?" and in reponse to that you reel off the long number displayed on screen in the telephone activation thingy, you get another long number provided to you and type it in the relevent box, and then Windows is activated.

Sometimes you'll also be asked "Is this copy of Windows a Retail one or an OEM one?"

That question tells you a tale, doesn't it? THE PERSON AT THE OTHER END OF THE LINE DOESN'T EVEN KNOW! So much for all the paranoia! The call centre person is sitting there, just like you, punching a number into a console with software running which somehow mysteriously spits out another number!

You can and should answer the question honestly. Number codes for Retail and OEM stuff vary from each other quite a bit, so if you tell a fib who knows? The mysterious number-generating software could well say "No 'tisn't!"

But there's only one practical difference to activation the OEM license introduces anyway. If you discontinue using the machine you first installed it on you're supposed to also discontinue using that copy/license of Windows. You're not allowed to 'move it to another machine'. You're allowed to reinstall it as many times as you need to, though, and the only hardware change you could make which would effectively be 'moving it to another machine[/i] is a motherboard upgrade.

Note that last italicised word. It's the only important one here. Microsoft has said that it's aware of the circumstances of home builders and enthusiasts, and that it's not trying to create impediments for them. Microsoft knows damned well that home builders and enthusiasts sometimes blow shit up!

So don't volunteer the information that you've upgraded your motherboard if you have an OEM license. That's about the only 'What should I say?' that's in any way important. If you have an OEM license and you tell them you upgraded your motherboard then you're telling them you changed Windows to a new system! You're inviting further conversation and questioning!

So simply tell them that you 'blew some shit up, and had to replace it.'

Matter of fact, don't go volunteering any unnecessary information at all unless you are specifically asked for details. The more you babble on when you ring the more it'll seem suspicious to the person at the other end of the line.

[MrGuvernment]

I don't understand why people think that they can't change their computer and have Vista/XP install correctly.

I have installed the same copy of SP1 Xp home about 30ish times now since I bought the oem version back in 2002. I just installed it on a friends computer (still only on ONE computer, because I am using vista). I have done the same thing with Vista now too. I installed it on my wife's laptop because I got a copy of ultimate. I had to call MS customer service, but the only thing they asked was if it was installed on more than one computer. It wasn't and the nice lady on the other end gave me a new code with no hassles at all.


Some people can, others have issues, i have used the same OEM XP Sp2 on 4 computers now, all very diff (each system died - work systems) and Inet activation always works.

[duby229]

Because people get paranoid, listen to the advice of other paranoid people, and then sit there dreaming up their imaginings of what they should say when they ring up. The end result, for many people, is that they ring up projecting an air of guilt in their voice, triggering alarm bells in the head of the person receiving the call. That's to the benefit of the call centre, of course, because the call centre really has no idea what's at the other end of the line and relies upon what information is provided or intimated.


Thats BS and you know it. Before you even get started you have to type in your code. Which is more or less just a compressed description of your key, and hardware. I know how IT works and I can absolutely promise you, beyond a shadow of any doubt that they keep a relational DB

You say they are clueless.... I say your clueless for thinking that.

[crashthenet44]

I have had to re-activate OEM Vista Ultimate 32-bit twice so far. The first time was when I re-installed Vista onto a Raptor. I called MS up, said I had the OEM version of Ultimate. They asked if I was installing it on another system. I said no, and explained that I had to replace a hard drive. MS gave me an activation code and I was back in business.

Second time was when I swapped my AMD system in favor of a new C2D setup. I ended up replacing the CPU(of course), motherboard and memory. After i re-installed Vista it again said I needed to reactivate. I ansewered the questions the same as I did before except this time I had told them that I replaced a motherboard. The person on the phone didn't think twice and gave me a new activation code.

[Catweazle]

Clueless back at ya, duby. Provide more than your own suspicions in the way of support for your comments. Lots of people work in IT. Some of them are pretty thick. It ain't no different to any other profession.

A database of specifically blocked keys is kept. That's about it ;)

[magoo]

I have no less than 4 OEM copies of XP. I reload and refresh my OSs several times a year. When I reload an OS I just grab a copy and go with it......I think I have had to call MS once in 5 years to get a new activation.
And.....this is with total overhauls, MB,CPU,RAM,GPU,HDD you name it......I've lost track of which copy is on which machine, not to mention my folding boxes.

If you need to talk to MS, just answer the questions and move on. But like the other guy said.....dont babble and add information that makes you sound like a criminal.
Besides, the call center is in India or some damn place.....do you think those guys give a shit about your copy of Vista.......all they want to do is get paid.

[recurr]

But there's only one practical difference to activation the OEM license introduces anyway. If you discontinue using the machine you first installed it on you're supposed to also discontinue using that copy/license of Windows. You're not allowed to 'move it to another machine'. You're allowed to reinstall it as many times as you need to, though, and the only hardware change you could make which would effectively be 'moving it to another machine[/i] is a motherboard upgrade.

Note that last italicised word. It's the only important one here. Microsoft has said that it's aware of the circumstances of home builders and enthusiasts, and that it's not trying to create impediments for them. Microsoft knows damned well that home builders and enthusiasts sometimes blow shit up!

So don't volunteer the information that you've upgraded your motherboard if you have an OEM license. That's about the only 'What should I say?' that's in any way important. If you have an OEM license and you tell them you upgraded your motherboard then you're telling them you changed Windows to a new system! You're inviting further conversation and questioning!

So simply tell them that you 'blew some shit up, and had to replace it.'

Matter of fact, don't go volunteering any unnecessary information at all unless you are specifically asked for details. The more you babble on when you ring the more it'll seem suspicious to the person at the other end of the line.

Don't listen to this guy. He seems to know what the OEM EULA says about motherboard upgrades, but seems to say the ethical people who knows about the motherboard upgrade are paranoid. You're either ethical and paranoid, or you unethical enough to legally aquire an OEM license and break it instead of pirating the software.

Tell Microsoft you upgraded your motherboard and whether or not the original motherboard still works. Then come back here and tell us what happens.

[Catweazle]

watchoo talkin' bout, padawan? I said what I said and it was English!

[magoo]

Don't listen to this guy. He seems to know what the OEM EULA says about motherboard upgrades, but seems to say the ethical people who knows about the motherboard upgrade are paranoid. You're either ethical and paranoid, or you unethical enough to legally aquire an OEM license and break it instead of pirating the software.

Tell Microsoft you upgraded your motherboard and whether or not the original motherboard still works. Then come back here and tell us what happens.

So.......when you have your 125 dollar copy of Vista whatever OEM, and want to change out your MB,CPU and RAM...... what are you going to tell the little man on the phone????
Oh please, Mr. Microsoft guy, please take my money some more.

I think not.

[recurr]

So.......when you have your 125 dollar copy of Vista whatever OEM, and want to change out your MB,CPU and RAM...... what are you going to tell the little man on the phone????
Oh please, Mr. Microsoft guy, please take my money some more.

No. Tell Microsoft you upgraded your motherboard and whether or not the original motherboard still works. Then come back here and tell us what happens.

[pxc]

No. Tell Microsoft you upgraded your motherboard and whether or not the original motherboard still works. Then come back here and tell us what happens.http://weblog.infoworld.com/gripeline/archives/2007/05/motherboard_rep.html

Fortunately, I was able to find a Microsoft official who was gracious enough to look into the reader's questions for me. "The rule is in place to protect the OEM, or in this specific case the System Builder, so that as computers are upgraded, the System Builder is not obligated (per the EULA) to support a version of Windows that may be on what is essentially a new PC," wrote Tom Moran, director of customer and partner experience for Microsoft Operations. "Generally, you may upgrade or replace all of the hardware components on your customer's computer and the end user may maintain the license for the original Microsoft OEM operating system software, with the exception of an upgrade or replacement of the motherboard. Upgrading the motherboard essentially results in a new computer, to which the original operating system software cannot be transferred. This is not the case if the motherboard is replaced (same make/model) due to a defect."

Microsoft had to draw the line somewhere. "Understanding that end users, over time, upgrade their PC with different components, Microsoft needed to have one base component 'left standing' that would still define that original PC - the motherboard, in essence, is the 'heart and soul' of the PC," Moran wrote. "In the case with Dell that your reader mentions, the situation was evidently caused by a defective motherboard, and the replacements would have been just that - direct replacements vs. upgrades. A replacement of a defective motherboard would not require a new license, while an upgrade would."

I've never had trouble activating the OS or apps over the phone, but MS does have a special rule about the motherboard for OEM licenses.

[Vulcanworlds]

does anyone know if the Vista Business version can be installed on more than one computer (at the same time)?

I'm just wondering if I will be able to use Vista Business as 1 license for more than one computer since it's focused at small businesses and multiple computers.

[Ragenrok]

I use a OEM version of vista home premium and was able to upgrade my computer from an am2 4200+ system with generic ram to my Sig Rig and I got no hassles over the phone doing it. I pretty much replaced every thing but the hard drive and DVD drive.

funny thing is vista still worked after swapping every thing out, but I formatted and re-installed just incase.

[magoo]

Another question, has the little MS guy ever asked you....."oh Mr. American person, did you replace your motherboard??" No they do not. Question one and usually the only question, is this the only computer this copy is applied to??.

[crashthenet44]

Another question, has the little MS guy ever asked you....."oh Mr. American person, did you replace your motherboard??" No they do not. Question one and usually the only question, is this the only computer this copy is applied to??.

No, but they do ask, "What is the reason for re-installing?" My answers both times were hardware failure.

[W6FO]

Maybe I'll stick with XP x64. :rolleyes:

Thanks

[crashthenet44]

Maybe I'll stick with XP x64. :rolleyes:

Thanks

Seriously man, you won't have ANY problems re-activating Vista when you swap parts out. Of all the threads that have been posted before about re-activating OEM license's I have yet to one see one person say MS denied them re-activation.

[duby229]

Seriously man, you won't have ANY problems re-activating Vista when you swap parts out. Of all the threads that have been posted before about re-activating OEM license's I have yet to one see one person say MS denied them re-activation.

They denied my activation on XP RTM, about 6 months after it was released. That is when I stopped using Windows. I paid 300$ for the retail box set after XP was released, then my HDD died, so I replaced it and reinstalled and MS refused to reactivate it.

I'm not the only one. In my town alone, I know about ten others that had the same experience.

[kirbster]

I have an OEM copy of XP pro. I have never had a problem reactivating. Even when i get the message "this license has been activated too many times". I just call and confirm it is on one machine only, They may ask me the reason and i always just say hardware failure. Never a problem. Not once. And I have changed hardware more than some people change underwear.
If you have a legitimate retail copy of XP, you should have no problem reactivating at all. There must be some other reason they are denying the activation.
Pehaps it is counterfeit? I am suspicious as you say other peopel in your twon have also been refused, maybe you all have fake copies?

[duby229]

I have an OEM copy of XP pro. I have never had a problem reactivating. Even when i get the message "this license has been activated too many times". I just call and confirm it is on one machine only, They may ask me the reason and i always just say hardware failure. Never a problem. Not once. And I have changed hardware more than some people change underwear.
If you have a legitimate retail copy of XP, you should have no problem reactivating at all. There must be some other reason they are denying the activation.
Pehaps it is counterfeit? I am suspicious as you say other peopel in your twon have also been refused, maybe you all have fake copies?

I paid 300$ at best buy two months after XP was released.. Somehow I doubt it was fake. If it was fake, then it was MS's fault.

I run the network for a local medical software company, and through my contacts with people in my day job, I have alot of people that I fix there home computers for. Through this I have found at least 10 other people who had OEM machines that MS would refuse to reactivate. OEM for cryin out loud. Most of these folks dont even know what an OS is, let alon install a fake. If these were faked, then it is MS's fault.

[kirbster]

What reason did MS give you for not activating yours? OEM copies are supposed to be the most restrictive. Retail is supposed to be fully transferable to a new machine, provided it was removed from the old machine.
I know if i were you i would be raising hell with MS as replacement of a hard drive should not even trip reactivation. I also do alot of computer work on the side and have never once had a problem activating. All i had to do was call in at the worst. As a matter of fact, i have heard of people stripping COA's of dead machines and reusing them on completely new machines without a problem. This is against the EULA but proves that it is not really tracked all that well.
My suggestion of counterfeit or fake was just that, a suggestion, as you did not say where you got the software from. Some OEM copies are the easiest to fake (use more than once is more common) by unscrupulous oem builders as some early copies did not require activation. There is a very widely spread copy of XP Pro that, until SP2, could be used without issue.

[pxc]

What reason did MS give you for not activating yours? LOL, you must be new here to call him on anything. :p Most of us just give up.

[kirbster]

Far from new here if you check my profile. post count means nothing to me. too many people have enormous post counts and very little time. It makes me wonder if they live in front of their computer. And this is not intended to escalate into anything. It just seems very strange to me that he has had numerous issues and i dont know of anyone else who has.

Just a bit strange is all. ;)

[duby229]

What reason did MS give you for not activating yours? OEM copies are supposed to be the most restrictive. Retail is supposed to be fully transferable to a new machine, provided it was removed from the old machine.
I know if i were you i would be raising hell with MS as replacement of a hard drive should not even trip reactivation. I also do alot of computer work on the side and have never once had a problem activating. All i had to do was call in at the worst. As a matter of fact, i have heard of people stripping COA's of dead machines and reusing them on completely new machines without a problem. This is against the EULA but proves that it is not really tracked all that well.
My suggestion of counterfeit or fake was just that, a suggestion, as you did not say where you got the software from. Some OEM copies are the easiest to fake (use more than once is more common) by unscrupulous oem builders as some early copies did not require activation. There is a very widely spread copy of XP Pro that, until SP2, could be used without issue.

I know full well, that there have been, and still are cracked copies available on the net. However, I've never used them. And that is besides the point anyhow.

You claim that MS doesnt track activations well, I say that is BS. Every single time you call, MS gets a description of your key and your hardware. They keep track of that data, and use it in conjuction with tech support, and even the WGA.

Every time you call MS, or your computer authenticates with the WGA, MS gets a a description of the key you use, and the hardware that key is installed on. And they collect it. Trust me.

The fact is that considering the experience that I had, and others in my community. I cant imagine that I'm the only one to come across this situation. As such it is reasonable to conclude that the system is flawed and the --only-- outcome that can be expected is will be a negative impact on the end user.

Those folks that want to hack Windows can, and will and MS will never be able to stop them. As a matter of --fact-- they will never even be able to make a measurable impact on piracy. Due to the flawed nature of MS activation system It's the the folks who use legitamate copies who will be impacted negatively.

This has been going on for more then 6 years now, and is well documented. My situation is only one of thousands just like it.

[kirbster]

If they track it so closely, how do you explain that i have had no isues activating the same copy of XP Pro over a very wide variety of hardware over a relatively short period of time? It makes it sound like some kind of lottery and i am just "really lucky".

I am not saying they do not collect the information, i am saying that they obviously do not watch it all that closely. Perhaps there have been some changes since you had your bad experience?
As for activation i actually agree with you it inconveniences the legit users, although that inconvenience is relatively minor. It does not prevent the truly gifted hackers from finding work arounds.

[Martyr]

generally, you have to call and say "this is the same computer" to someone, and they will give you your code, and there you go.

[magoo]

http://weblog.infoworld.com/gripeline/archives/2007/05/motherboard_rep.html



I've never had trouble activating the OS or apps over the phone, but MS does have a special rule about the motherboard for OEM licenses.

I'm sorry but I cant believe this at all, even if it is in print. Last weekend I changed out an entire folding box; CPU,RAM,Motherboard,GPU. The HDD was the only thing left standing.

I used the repair function in XP (an OEM copy) to load the OS. I got the message that my copy had to be reactivated......I called the 800 number and reactivated through the computer generated voice. No human beings were used in this function.

Then as soon as I booted up to the OS, came the message.....significant hardware changes have been made and you need to reactivate windows.......i put in the key from the COA and bingo, reactivated.

Am I just lucky???? I dont think so, I've done it half a dozen times in the last year.

[Atherton213]

i had vista home preimium on my old computer.... finished building my new computer... put XP back on the old computer and vista on the new one... called microsoft and they helped me activate it without any issues... i dont even think he asked me any questions on why? i just told him exactly what i was doing...

[Catweazle]

What reason did MS give you for not activating yours?


It's a pertinent question to ask, though.

duby, your experiences back then are hardly reason to base judgement upon nowadays. Activation was new to Microsoft when XP was released, and there were inevitable teething problems during the first 12 months or so. Hell, even the EULA has significantly changed since then, and most certainly the instruction/training given to call centre sytaff has changed dramatically.

[duby229]

It's a pertinent question to ask, though.

duby, your experiences back then are hardly reason to base judgement upon nowadays. Activation was new to Microsoft when XP was released, and there were inevitable teething problems during the first 12 months or so. Hell, even the EULA has significantly changed since then, and most certainly the instruction/training given to call centre sytaff has changed dramatically.

I answered his question.

You may be right about MS's EULA changes. I have read through most of Vista's EULA, and the diffs for OEM, and Retail And it is alot different from the XP RTM EULA.

Though I have to admit it isnt all in a good way either. In some respects it is much more restrictive. In others it wont make a difference anyhow becouse the language is either too vague, or precedence invalidates it.

I'd say about 30% of MS EULA is invalid due to precedence set in american courts. Another 30% is more restrictive then the XP EULA. Of the 40% that is left, at least half of it is legal mumbo jumbo, and the other half is reasonably fair.

Of the whole EULA about 20% of it is fair, and reasonable. The rest of it is BS, invalid, or legalese. In the end the results are the same. We already had a number of posts on this forum about users, whose machines became de-activated in Vista. I think they all managed to get it resolved fairly though. But the point is that Activation will in no way influence hackers. If they want to steal windows they will...

The only users activation hurts are legitimate users. As shown by the good folks who contribute to this very forum.

[crashthenet44]

I answered his question.


I must've missed it somewhere, but what reason did MS give that they would not re-activate your copy of XP?

[kirbster]

I still don't see the answer to my question either.
Changing of one component (other than the motherboard which has the audio and lan built in most of the time now) should not require re-activation. Sounds like you got burnt at the beginning when MS was still getting things sorted and now you sound a little bitter.
Not that i wouldnt be under the same circumstances. But i am pretty sure i would of gotten it resolved with a phone call or two.

[duby229]

I must've missed it somewhere, but what reason did MS give that they would not re-activate your copy of XP?

They told me my key was invalid. Nothing more. Just that my key was invalid and they couldnt activate it, then they transferd me to the anti-piracy department.. I think they call it the piracy hotline nowadays. And they politely explained to me that I needed to buy a new key. I could buy one from them, or I could buy a new box set. I said I already bought one, and I aint gonna buy another. Keep in mind this was a few years ago. We just kept going round in circles until I gave up.

That is when I stopped using Windows.

[duby229]

I still don't see the answer to my question either.
Changing of one component (other than the motherboard which has the audio and lan built in most of the time now) should not require re-activation. Sounds like you got burnt at the beginning when MS was still getting things sorted and now you sound a little bitter.
Not that i wouldnt be under the same circumstances. But i am pretty sure i would of gotten it resolved with a phone call or two.

It's not a matter of changing hardware. From what I gather MS is pretty good about that.

It's just that myself, and a few others in my area couldnt re-activate. We still have folks coming into this forum today asking for help when Vista get de-activated. It's a flawed system that hurts legitimate users, and does --nothing-- to prevent piracy.

[minc3d]

I just reactivated a copy of Vista Business that was on my laptop now onto my desktop. No issues. Just mention that your old machine died.

But then again, this was an MSDN copy...

[BURNTOIL3372]

MS should only give you trouble when you install a new motherboard . I should knew have a direct RED Phone for MS lol.

[Lucio]

They told me my key was invalid. Nothing more. Just that my key was invalid and they couldnt activate it, then they transferd me to the anti-piracy department.. I think they call it the piracy hotline nowadays. And they politely explained to me that I needed to buy a new key. I could buy one from them, or I could buy a new box set. I said I already bought one, and I aint gonna buy another. Keep in mind this was a few years ago. We just kept going round in circles until I gave up.

That is when I stopped using Windows.

If that'd happened to me I'd have been very angry at whomever sold me my "retail" copy of Windows. Not Microsoft, but the guy who sold me a box of counterfit goods. They're the ones who are legally responsible and can be held accountable.

[Catweazle]

If that'd happened to me I'd have been very angry at whomever sold me my "retail" copy of Windows. Not Microsoft, but the guy who sold me a box of counterfit goods. They're the ones who are legally responsible and can be held accountable.
If it had happened to me I'd have taken the matter further. Being timid doesn't help anybody. When people try to tell you that black is white you simply shouldn't let them get away with it, If you do there is nobody but yourself to blame!

If you have a valid license, and you know damned well that you've used it properly then don't accept being told that your product key is invalid. You know it's not, so why accept the utterance of a junior employee? Politely and firmly insist on speaking with the person's supervisor and explain that you have the proof of ownership. In the rare circumstance that someone else has actually obtained and used your product install code then it's you who have the proof of ownership, and it is Microsoft's responsibility to block that code and issue you with a new one to use!


duby's comments in this thread - his relating of his experience - is nothing other than an instance of a consumer failing to follow up on his consumer rights!