Shuttle X200 @ [H] Consumer

[Jason_Wall]

Shuttle is back (http://consumer.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTMwNCwxLCxoY29uc3VtZXI=) with one of their new products. We've all enjoyed watching Shuttle innovate the small form-factor world, and with this unit they break into the mini-form-factor. As an HTPC, this could mean great things - low noise, low energy, small footprint, and all-inclusive. Unfortunately, Shuttle fell short in a number of categories.

With the exception of Stability and General Usage, Shuttle grossly missed the mark in nearly every category. Shuttle’s apparent inattention to properly configuring and testing the box’s operating system caused us to receive an essentially unusable system. Technical support didn’t offer much help in resolving the issue, either. And on the occasions where the techs did hit the mark, the experience was marred by a Byzantine, slow, and unresponsive RMA process.

Thanks for reading!

[Chris_B]

That thing reminds me of a nintendo wii in the first pic, also have to laugh at the size of the box they put a small ram module into.


The evaluation doesn't suprise me much though, from what ive heard shuttle seem to have one or two people with a clue manning the phones and thats about it.

[MacDad]

Too bad. The system itself looks really cool. Too bad everything else about it stinks. It's all dumb little things that are wrong, too. It's all easily fixable and hopefully they'll work on it some more.

When I first saw the $10 fee, I thought they were GIVING you ten dollars as a way of saying sorry. I can't believe they'd actually charge you for replacing a defective component.

[Kevin Tu]

It is unfortunate that the system didn't detect the keyboards, but that is strictly an issue with our hard drive system image that we used and not that we don't test our systems. Each machine is built some pre-assembled parts with a system specific hard drive image, and unfortunately we had an image that lack keyboard/mouse drivers compound with the fact that our systems don't go through testing using USB keyboard/mouses. Instead they're all linked via PS/2 KVM switch. While it may seem late, but we did indeed change the system image to recognize all USB keyboard and mouses due to similar customer complaints. So we are listening.

Now on the note of availability of an ATSC Tuner. We specifically choose not to offer this due to the same reasons that Jason and [H] went through - constant stuttering. The integrated GMA950 just wasn't cutting it with HD requirements, so we cut the option out. I'd hate to offer customers the option to pay for constant stuttering...

Well, we made some drastic improvements to our Technical Support and RMA process since the last round of [H] reviews, just seems like we need to make some fine tuning. Back to the drawing board to see what else we can improve. I won't be happy until we at least get a "Recommended" :D .

[Rusdude]

Hmm... when I was shopping around for a mini PC, I ruled this system out because it was too expensive. I'm glad I wasn't fooled by all the marketing hype.

However, the most troublesome item for me is this:

We downloaded a couple of Hi-Def (720p) movie trailers from iTunes and Yahoo. Generally, they looked very nice on our plasma monitor, but we experienced stuttering playback about 20% of the time. The X200 isn’t necessarily designed to handle HD content (hence the lack of an HD tuner), but we nonetheless found this surprising, as even a four-year-old, Pentium 4 laptop could play them back without problems.

I'm about to build a miniPC based on AOpen's new MP945-VDR model (http://usa.aopen.com/products_detail.aspx?Auno=2370) and I'm going to pair it with same proc as your Shuttle and 2GB of RAM (vs 1GB here). One of the main functions will be to play HD video and I hoped it'd have enough horsepower... :( But if I can't get good playback, I guess I'm going to have to wait until someone incorporates Santa Rosa into a miniPC...

[Rusdude]

Now on the note of availability of an ATSC Tuner. We specifically choose not to offer this due to the same reasons that Jason and [H] went through - constant stuttering. The integrated GMA950 just wasn't cutting it with HD requirements, so we cut the option out. I'd hate to offer customers the option to pay for constant stuttering...


Kevin, is bad HD video playback related to only 64MB RAM allocated to GMA950? Intel site says it maxes out at 224MB shared.

[ikjadoon]

Kevin, thanks for stopping by. It is always nice to see the people up top actually listen and try to fix any problems that might've occurred during the evaluation.

I would think this machine would fit great with a X2 EE, passive heatsink, AMD RS690 w/HDMI, and a nice PCI[e] HDTV tuner card. The case is amazing, btw. It must be hard, however, to get components to actually fit in that thing, however. Would it not be better for a mATX or is that another line in Shuttle products?

~Ibrahim~

[0mega]

Hmm... when I was shopping around for a mini PC, I ruled this system out because it was too expensive. I'm glad I wasn't fooled by all the marketing hype.

However, the most troublesome item for me is this:



I'm about to build a miniPC based on AOpen's new MP945-VDR model (http://usa.aopen.com/products_detail.aspx?Auno=2370) and I'm going to pair it with same proc as your Shuttle and 2GB of RAM (vs 1GB here). One of the main functions will be to play HD video and I hoped it'd have enough horsepower... :( But if I can't get good playback, I guess I'm going to have to wait until someone incorporates Santa Rosa into a miniPC...

using a conservative player, like windows media player classic, and a good renderer, ive watched a 720p episode of stargate with no trouble at all on my current system (unoverclocked at this point.) ud recommend the klite codec pack as it comes with WMP Classic which is a very feature packed player, that looks like the old mplayer :D and all of the controls for things like postprocesing can be accessed in the player :) it has tons of video renderers as well, and you can pick whichever runs best on your system :)

[magoo]

Why these guys dont use the nvidia dual tuner is beyond me.
I put one in my shuttle G5 along with a 6800GT and have a great little HTPC that has excellent playback and DVR capability.

Too bad the out of the box experience was poor. I expect more from Shuttle. I truely enjoy my G5, even though its getting a little long in the tooth.

[deruberhanyok]

Why these guys dont use the nvidia dual tuner is beyond me

Where would they put it? There isn't room in the X chassis for a PCI / PCI Express card.

As for the rest... I was disappointed when I saw that the X200 had ditched the X1400 MXM module of the X100 for the integrated GMA950. 965G chipset, with the X3000 onboard video, may have been more up to the task of doing HD video content, and I think X1400 might have been able to handle it as well.

Now an X-series using AMD's 690 chipset with an Intel processor...

[PolarbearBigEd]

It is unfortunate that the system didn't detect the keyboards, but that is strictly an issue with our hard drive system image that we used and not that we don't test our systems. Each machine is built some pre-assembled parts with a system specific hard drive image, and unfortunately we had an image that lack keyboard/mouse drivers compound with the fact that our systems don't go through testing using USB keyboard/mouses. Instead they're all linked via PS/2 KVM switch. While it may seem late, but we did indeed change the system image to recognize all USB keyboard and mouses due to similar customer complaints. So we are listening.

Now on the note of availability of an ATSC Tuner. We specifically choose not to offer this due to the same reasons that Jason and [H] went through - constant stuttering. The integrated GMA950 just wasn't cutting it with HD requirements, so we cut the option out. I'd hate to offer customers the option to pay for constant stuttering...

Well, we made some drastic improvements to our Technical Support and RMA process since the last round of [H] reviews, just seems like we need to make some fine tuning. Back to the drawing board to see what else we can improve. I won't be happy until we at least get a "Recommended" :D .


That fact that you actually read the entire review, didn't complain, and are doing something about it speaks volumes for Shuttle. I've always liked Shuttle regardless of their products, and this just reaffirms it. Kudos to you sir.

[magoo]

Why these guys dont use the nvidia dual tuner is beyond me

Where would they put it? There isn't room in the X chassis for a PCI / PCI Express card.

As for the rest... I was disappointed when I saw that the X200 had ditched the X1400 MXM module of the X100 for the integrated GMA950. 965G chipset, with the X3000 onboard video, may have been more up to the task of doing HD video content, and I think X1400 might have been able to handle it as well.

Now an X-series using AMD's 690 chipset with an Intel processor...

There may not be room for the "card" itself......but I'm sure there is some way to squeeze dual tuner technology into that box. That was my implication.
It seems real dumb to market an HTPC that cant have a dual tuner set-up, and the nvidia model is really slick.

[ikjadoon]

There may not be room for the "card" itself......but I'm sure there is some way to squeeze dual tuner technology into that box. That was my implication.
It seems real dumb to market an HTPC that cant have a dual tuner set-up, and the nvidia model is really slick.

Well, slick as in standard definition? Why would anyone still want standard definition today, with high definition is practically free (OTA)?

Did you think about somehow integrating this PCI-e HDTV tuner on there? I know motherboards have like Gigabit ethernet through PCI-e, can't this be done similarly?

http://www.fusionhdtv.co.kr/eng/Products/fusion5express.aspx

~Ibrahim~

[magoo]

Well, slick as in standard definition? Why would anyone still want standard definition today, with high definition is practically free (OTA)?

Did you think about somehow integrating this PCI-e HDTV tuner on there? I know motherboards have like Gigabit ethernet through PCI-e, can't this be done similarly?

http://www.fusionhdtv.co.kr/eng/Products/fusion5express.aspx

~Ibrahim~


The whole of my TV watching is "24",a few NASCAR races and the NFL.......I could care less.
My kids could care less.
If I want to see clear HD and surround.........I'll watch a DVD on my home theatre.

[ikjadoon]

That is the point of the HTPC, no? Home Theater Personal computer = integrating your home theater with your PC, so you don't need two different machines to watch TV and surf the internet and play games.

~Ibrahim~

[deruberhanyok]

but I'm sure there is some way to squeeze dual tuner technology into that box

I think unless NVIDIA -or any other vendor - has an implementation of the dualtv available in some kind of notebook format already, it just wouldn't happen as a custom integrated solution. The amount of engineering required to put something like that in a single model PC would likely not be worth the cost, especially considering the trend of slowly moving away from analog broadcasts.

I think a small system with a single tuner could serve a certain purpose... if you're doing a lot of recording and never actually watching real-time broadcasts, you'd never notice the lack of a second tuner.

Remember, Shuttle also offers the M2000, set in a full HTPC-like chassis with dual tuners available, one of which can be ATSC. It is more expensive than the X200, but it offers a lot of extra functionality as well.

[Jason_Wall]

It is unfortunate that the system didn't detect the keyboards, but that is strictly an issue with our hard drive system image that we used and not that we don't test our systems. Each machine is built some pre-assembled parts with a system specific hard drive image, and unfortunately we had an image that lack keyboard/mouse drivers compound with the fact that our systems don't go through testing using USB keyboard/mouses. Instead they're all linked via PS/2 KVM switch. While it may seem late, but we did indeed change the system image to recognize all USB keyboard and mouses due to similar customer complaints. So we are listening.

Now on the note of availability of an ATSC Tuner. We specifically choose not to offer this due to the same reasons that Jason and [H] went through - constant stuttering. The integrated GMA950 just wasn't cutting it with HD requirements, so we cut the option out. I'd hate to offer customers the option to pay for constant stuttering...

Well, we made some drastic improvements to our Technical Support and RMA process since the last round of [H] reviews, just seems like we need to make some fine tuning. Back to the drawing board to see what else we can improve. I won't be happy until we at least get a "Recommended" :D .

Kevin,

Thanks for dropping in - speaks volumes, sir.

We truly applaud Shuttle for their innovative qualities. While many other integrators are taking HTPCs and saying, "Let's make it bigger, faster, with more stuff and MORE POWER," Shuttle is saying, "No, let's make it smaller, quieter, more power efficient, easily moved and set up." Of course, that's been their strategy since ye olden days, but we're just saying that we noticed, and it's admirable.

Now if we can just get the machine some more teeth :).

[magoo]

Did you see last nights episode of 24? Shite, this is best time. Wish I would say more, but I'm not sure if you watched, so I might spoil something! Can you believe what Martha did? F*ck, she deserves to be in that institution!

That is the point of the HTPC, no? Home Theater Personal computer = integrating your home theater with your PC, so you don't need two different machines to watch TV and surf the internet and play games.

~Ibrahim~
Home theatre is for theatre......gaming rigs are like stock cars......bare essentials and run like a demon on high octane.:D

[swatbat]

Interesting review. If that thing wasn't so expensive it would be a real nice mini pc to give to a parent or something for basic use or in a business where it could be hidden and prob save some cash as I'm betting it doesn't draw that much power.

I'd love to see you all compair this sucker with a mac mini or something. Maybe the aopen mini pc. I just see these things as having some good uses.

[jestyr]

I purchased a Shuttle system a year or so ago. I had a motherboard failure. The RMA, and system replacement policy is horrible. It takes weeks to get anything done.

I got my new board, got my system running, and the new board failed.. Unfortunately the system was then out of warranty.

I now have a $500 brick in my closet.

Every time a shuttle system piques my interest, I just look in my closet, laugh, and move on. I personally will never purchase a Shuttle system.

[Clockworks]

I believe [H] should re-evaluate the machine after Santa Rosa comes out (the machine is practically made out of laptop parts). From all the information that I've heard about it, it should be a great improvement. Aside from that, it is still a very expensive machine; if there is a way to cut out the costs or include more for the money, the value would be greatly increased.

Still a nice machine, it just needs to be somewhat faster (Santa Rosa should take care of that) and cheaper.

[Jason_Wall]

SR will be damn interesting to see, but of all things, I don't think this system was CPU-bound. The Core 2 should have been more than enough to run all of the apps and content.

[jlundy]

I have been generally happy with Shuttle's barebones G series computers. The barebones models allow me to build a system that is specifically designed for the task at hand.

The company I work for will occasionally send teams to work offsite with a client. The Shuttles can be easily carried and provide a 'faster than your average laptop' platform for the type of work we do.

As a travel box, I was very interested in the even smaller X series machines.

Unfortunately, the two X100 computers I purchased will likely sit on a shelf until we deploy Vista later this year. Like much of corporate America (50%+), our company uses Windows 2000.

The ATI video solution that Shuttle chose for the X100 is a proprietary laptop based unit. As the OEMs (like Shuttle) can change the design of laptop based video solutions, the chipset manufacturers (ATI, NVidia etc.) will not issue drivers for them.

I have located up-to-date Windows 2000 drivers for every other component in the X100s I purchased. Without attempting to utilize a hacked 3rd party video driver, I have no options that will allow me to deploy these computers in our environment.

I bring up the driver issue as an example of the risks that a consumer takes when purchasing a product that is unnecessarily proprietary in nature.

Do you trust that manufacturer to maintain up-to-date drivers that address flaws, bugs, perfomance issues in a timely manner? Will they do this two years down the road when you would like to upgrade to a new operating system or find that an old driver is incompatable with the software you need to use?

Very few laptop manufacturer's perform such due diligence. You can troll the forums of many a site to find some Dell user looking for a replacement video driver that is newer than 18 months old.

If Shuttle can't be bothered to QA the product features they post on their website, finish installing the hardware they ship or do something as basic as test standard USB keyboard compatability (a must for a machine without PS/2 ports), then I believe they have a long way to go to earn your trust as a consumer.

As a side note, I applaud Shuttle's choice to use an Intel graphics solution. If there is a top level manufacturer that provides excellent driver support, it is Intel.


P.S. Thank you HardOCP for providing a review process that holds companies accountable at every level of the user experience. If I had a nickel for every half baked, incomplete, poorly executed or misrepresented product, I would be a very rich indeed.

[Clockworks]

SR will be damn interesting to see, but of all things, I don't think this system was CPU-bound. The Core 2 should have been more than enough to run all of the apps and content.

Outdated drivers? I have no idea what could be causing such a problem as the CPU is fine but I'm not sure about the chipset (or more RAM could help).

[aramis]

"Under “Accessories,” the X200 spec sheet lists “S-video out cable.” Not only did we not receive an s-video cable with our system, there wasn’t even an s-video port on the unit.


Referring to this (http://us.shuttle.com/Static_Images/New%20Models/X/ActualView2.jpg) image, we had the following conversation."

Looks like they swapped out the pic from underneath you. They now have a pic of what's currently in the system.

Also, around p. 7 or so... It should be "jibes" not "jive"... ya dig? :D

Sorry to sound like an editor. I always enjoy reading your articles, and this was no exception. You guys are always really thorough and take them to task when its necessary.

I'm personally kind of shocked by the poor tech support and the $10 cross-ship fee. That just seems anti-productive to getting customers the service they deserve. I expect more from Shuttle (and other integrators)!