Water Vs Air

[0graymic]

I am looking at getting a new cooling system for my computer, I am considering either high end air cooling eg thermatright HR-03 + Ultra 120 + silent fans, or low/mid range water cooling such as this system http://www.aqua-pcs.co.uk/index.asp?function=DISPLAYPRODUCT&productid=419
with
http://www.aqua-pcs.co.uk/index.asp?function=DISPLAYPRODUCT&productid=425
this gfx block.

I need the CPU and GPU cooling, i have a 3.2gig P4 and a 7900GS, i am interested in overclocking.
I would like my computer to be as quiet as posible but i dont mind a bit of noise if the performance is worth it.

What would be best?

[Kumakichi]

Water should perform the best if you don't mind maintaining it. Air cooling is pretty good these days though. Not on par with WC but you can pretty much forget about it once its setup. Cost wise I think your looking at a bigger investment if you go with a decent WC setup. WC seems well suited to the tinkerer since you have to do some mod'ing of you case usually.

[theelectic]

That kit uses what, 1/4" ID tubing? If you can't afford anything better you're better off with a Tuniq Tower, or put your $ towards a motherboard and CPU upgrade.

[0graymic]

I dont have much space in my case as it is a matx so water cooling would be ideal, i cant use somthing as big as a tuniq tower as it will get in the way of my hdd. as for getting a new CPU i am looking at upgrading to a C2D in april, the reason im not getting it now is the noise from my case.

also i like going to lan partys so if i were to get water cooling would that be sutable for regular transit?

thanks

[Moddest Mouse]

Water is best, but you get what you pay for. ALOT. i'd say get a artic freezer and then save up for your dream WC system.

[ghost6303]

also i like going to lan partys so if i were to get water cooling would that be sutable for regular transit?


i transport my beast atleast once a month, as long as you put it together good (no leaks) there shouldnt be much problem, its a closed loop.

[wdn]

Frankly I am not convinced that water cooled is any better performing than a top CPU cooler that uses heat pipes and a fan. My core temps are just as low with a Zalman 9700 on air, and my overclock is up there with the best of them. At this point I am limited by memory speed not core temperature. Maybe if I had twin 8800's and 10 hard disks water cooling might make a difference. Maybe.

I think we can all agree though that a $55 Zalman 9700 is a whole lot cheaper than a $300-400 liquid cooling setup.

[ghost6303]

1.57v on air? what are your temps? and more especialy whats your temp delta? this is where air normaly lacks the cojones

[0graymic]

thanks for all your help. dose anyone have the x2o cooling kit, i would like to hear first hand about how good or otherwise it is. the reviews say its almost as good as an alphacool cora which i find hard to beleve as there is a hugh price diferance.

[wdn]

1.57v on air? what are your temps? and more especialy whats your temp delta? this is where air normaly lacks the cojones

My core temps were 48C/50C after 4 hours running Orthos small fft.

Idle temps like right now for example, are well under 30 at 3,888 MHz.

[wdn]

For example

http://preview.wnorcott.photosite.com/~photos/tn/8525783_1024.ts1171587222000.jpg

[Erasmus354]

Watercooling definitely beats air cooling when it comes to performance for noise. It is also much better at taking heat away from the processor. Water is over 10 times better at conducting heat than air, it is simply a better heat transportation system. In practice this means you can use lower speed fans and achieve the same and usually better results than you would with air cooling. Also that Zalman 9700 is just about ready to rip out your motherboard, those coolers are HEAVY. Personally I dont like the idea of a full pound of copper hanging off my motherboard with the CPU as a pivot point.


For transportation your going to want to use good hose clamps. And to be on the safe side, when you reach the destination run a quick leak test for 20 minutes to make sure nothing came loose. I have moved my watercooled system around many times and have never had a leak.

[smizack]

Water is best, but you get what you pay for. ALOT. i'd say get a artic freezer and then save up for your dream WC system.

QFT
I tried an "all in one" internal kit and got about an 8c drop. It was definately not worth it.

[rysher]

watercooling is better of course. i had a zalman 9500 before, was running at 41C but w/ water it run at 32C full load. problem with H2O cooling is the MAINTANCE, thats my only problem.
and when u bring it to a LAN party, oh boy look at the bulging eyes of your friends. bragging rights and cooler temps. especially if u build ur own watercooling kit.

[Kuyt]

The Best Water > The Best Air

Simply put.

[theelectic]

The Best Water > The Best Air

Simply put.

True, but the problem these days is that entry level WC kits have dropped in price to the point where they are only a bit more expensive than high end air. I mean the average user looks at the $65 Tuniq Tower, and a $100 WC kit, and equates the $100 WC kit with something way better, so they may be enticed to spring for the WC kit. When in reality, it will probably perform the same or worse than the Tuniq.

If you're going to get into WC, IMO you really need to dive in and spend a good amount of $ - not a ton, but don't cheap out either. You get what you pay for with WC, unlike with air where $25 (Arctic Cooling Freezer series) can get you the performance of a $50 cooler. A decent pump, rad, block, res, tubing, fans, extra parts, etc. will run around $200. I'm thinking pump $75, rad $50, block $50, res + tubing + fans + parts $25. If the user, after dropping $200, doesn't get 20-30C temperature drops (since they spent 3x as much $ compared to high end air) they think something is wrong, when in reality, everything is right!

[michaLcoughliN]

For example

http://preview.wnorcott.photosite.com/~photos/tn/8525783_1024.ts1171587222000.jpg

DAMN!!

[0graymic]

I keep on hearing alot about maintanence for water cooling, surly once it is setup you can leave it? Waht sort of maintanence dose it require and how oftain?

[michaLcoughliN]

Coolant being changed every year. Ummmm making sure there's no leakage :P

[wdn]

Watercooling definitely beats air cooling when it comes to performance for noise. It is also much better at taking heat away from the processor. Water is over 10 times better at conducting heat than air, it is simply a better heat transportation system. In practice this means you can use lower speed fans and achieve the same and usually better results than you would with air cooling. Also that Zalman 9700 is just about ready to rip out your motherboard, those coolers are HEAVY. Personally I dont like the idea of a full pound of copper hanging off my motherboard with the CPU as a pivot point.


For transportation your going to want to use good hose clamps. And to be on the safe side, when you reach the destination run a quick leak test for 20 minutes to make sure nothing came loose. I have moved my watercooled system around many times and have never had a leak.

Water cooler is not 10X better than a heat pipe based cooler like the Zalman 9700. Zalman is using liquid cooling -- and a radiator and a fan for that mater. Funny thought you should worry about a 9700 breaking off the front- and back- mounting brackets, then the next thing you mention is you have to leak-test your watercooled system for 20 minutes every time you move it LOL. If you spring a leak your motherboard and everything on it is toast, and you are leaking an electrically conductive and toxic green substance all over the carpets. :D

[Erasmus354]

I keep on hearing alot about maintanence for water cooling, surly once it is setup you can leave it? Waht sort of maintanence dose it require and how oftain?

You need to periodically refill the loop. Little gnomes like to come and steal your water. I have to refill about once every 3 months with a little bit of water because I have no resevoir and a small fill line. If you have a resevoir or a larger fill line the time between fill ups will increase. Also it isn't really hard, I keep a container of extra fluid, and have a fillport. So when I need to fill 'er up I just pop off the fill port, drizzle some more coolant in, close it up and I'm good to go.


Also cheap watercooling does not have to be bad water cooling. You can put together a pretty mean system for 150$ for a CPU and 200$ for CPU+GPU. You can even go as low as 100$ and 150$ for decent water cooling. The problem is when you start going for those premade kits from crap companies like ThermalTake that you run into problems.

[0graymic]

Thanks for all your help, hopfully i will be getting a thermaltake big water next week...

just kidding :)

Here is the one i am hoping to get:-

http://www.aqua-pcs.co.uk/index.asp?function=DISPLAYPRODUCT&productid=419
http://www.aqua-pcs.co.uk/index.asp?function=DISPLAYPRODUCT&productid=425
along with this GPU block.

Would this be ok?
Would i need anything else?

[NordicRX8]

You need to periodically refill the loop. Little gnomes like to come and steal your water.

Are those the same bastards that are stealing my socks cause I can't find a damned matched pair at all!!!!! :D

If you use 100% distilled water (no additives), you don't even have to change out the water, just top it off every once in awhile (unless you develop bacterial growth of some sort).

[Aqua-Pcs]

0graymic, That kits gives you everything you need to get started although you will need to get yourself some distilled water of Feser Coolant to fill the system.

:p

[0graymic]

Thanks for all your help, I have just installed my new water cooling system and pics will follow soon.

[XeroHouR]

Are those the same bastards that are stealing my socks cause I can't find a damned matched pair at all!!!!! :D

If you use 100% distilled water (no additives), you don't even have to change out the water, just top it off every once in awhile (unless you develop bacterial growth of some sort).

1.) Steal underpants
2.) ?????
3.) PROFIT!

[0graymic]

Well as promised, here is a pic. its not quiet finished, i need to clean up some edges and the graphics card RAM overheats so i need to get a ram cooling block but other than that its done.

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/3364/dsc00014km7.th.jpg (http://img181.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00014km7.jpg)

i will post some more pics when i have compleated it.

the temps are much better. the idol temp of the CPU has dropped from 40C to 32C and the load temps have dropped from 60-70C to 40-42C as for the GFX temps, they have dropped from about 46 to about 34C and the load temps are about 46C.

The kit its self is realy simple and east to fit, just cut the tube to leangth, fit and tighten up the fittings. this performs much better that my old zalman CNPS 8000. well worth the £96 i spent on it.

[masaville]

Grats on your water setup!!

Water is just plain fun to install, but you don't really need it over air unless you're doing some serious overclocking or have a monster rig to cool. I went to water so I could eliminate turning on my personal space heater (2 x 8800s) in summer! :rolleyes:

Now I have to turn up the heat in winter. Heh.

[0graymic]

well i have just finished cutting the case side panel so here is another pic. it still needs respraying and i need to clean up the wiring for the side fan but you get the idea.

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/6325/dsc00043zq4.th.jpg (http://img228.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00043zq4.jpg)