Yet Another Vista Thread [Archive]

SleeplessIncubus

01-23-2007, 04:46 PM

Lets start off by saying that I did a google search and a search here. I just want to clarify some things just to make sure I understand it correctly before I purchase my copy of Vista.

I currently own the full version of Win95, an upgrade of Win98 and an OEM version of WinXP Pro. From what I read Vista will not allow upgrades from 95/98 which will leave me with the OEM of XP Pro. Can I purchase an upgrade of Vista if I own the OEM...so that during installation I only have to pop in the OEM copy to verify or is that not allowed either?

I found this website very informative....
http://www.helpwithwindows.com/WindowsVista/vista-which-version.html

I am leaning towards the Windows Home Premium version but is there anything in the other versions that is definately worth getting that the Home Premium does not include. From the looks of it there really isnt anything that I would need....as the System image backup and recovery would be the only option that appealed to me but I'm guessing if I have software like Norton Ghost it wouldnt be a problem.

I did have a chance to install a copy of Ultimate for a test run...ran it for a couple days and really liked it. I am a little confused on the whole x64 and x32 versions though. I ran Ultimate x64 and the only driver problem I had was with my onboard sound. It gave me a message saying that it was not compatable with "this version of windows" but I was still getting sound. Also software that was not compatable with x64 I saw was installed in a x86 systems file. Is there any downside for it doing it this way? I'm assuming that Vista is running that software in a x86 emulation - is that right?

Thats all I can think of right now. Thanks :)

SleeplessIncubus

01-23-2007, 06:02 PM

Headbust

01-23-2007, 06:23 PM

ok did some more searching and found out that the upgrade versions of vista you first must install XP and then from there install Vista.

that sounds very time consuming. it also will prevent having a clean install.

is this correct?

i also read that the OEM versions of Vista will only be able to be installed on one machine and tied to the original equipment therefore making upgrades painful.

i guess ill have to go with the retail home premium @ $239

If they make it stick this time around which it doesnt sound like it will at the worst case scenario vista will be tied to only 1 motherboard only and nothing else, The rest can be changed as many times as you want except the mobo.

This is only if they enforce there EULA, But doesnt look like there going to.

markt435

01-23-2007, 06:33 PM

ok did some more searching and found out that the upgrade versions of vista you first must install XP and then from there install Vista.

that sounds very time consuming. it also will prevent having a clean install.

is this correct?

i also read that the OEM versions of Vista will only be able to be installed on one machine and tied to the original equipment therefore making upgrades painful.

i guess ill have to go with the retail home premium @ $239

XP and Vista both are tied to only one machine per the license agreement. Though I have found that moving XP to another comp is as simple as calling them up and saying I just upgraded and they have no problem allowing me to activate. It may be the same with Vista or not. Time will tell though. I have no way of finding out about doing a clean install because the Vista RTM is the full version and both times it has told me I can only do a clean install instead of upgrade.

anthongy817

01-23-2007, 06:39 PM

I was just wondering if anybody was able to get their hands on a brand new oem vista? I was reading the reviews of it on newegg and came across somebody that stated this:

"All Flavors of Vista are on a disc (Basic, Premium, Business, Ultimate) to be unlocked appropriately by your productl key, but ONLY for 32 bit or 64 bit. 32 bit processors cannot run 64 bit code, so the 32 and 64 bit packages are sold seperately. If you buy the wrong version (ie need CD's instead of DVD's or you need the 64bit version), there's a website listed in the packaging to order the proper version from microsoft for shipping and handling cost only."

Does anybody know if that is true or not that you can mail in the 32bit for a 64bit version?

SleeplessIncubus

01-23-2007, 06:50 PM

kind of a shady question but how would MS know what MB I had in my computer when I originally installed Vista? I do plan to upgrade to a C2D probably next year which would mean I have to replace my current MB.

couldnt I just say I upgraded the hdd or am doing a re-format.....is that just an ethical thing since I assume the MB thing is in the EULA.

aybdude42

01-23-2007, 06:53 PM

uhh, why dont you just get the OEM version of vista? :confused: its only 200 for the ultimate version (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16832116213&CMP=OTC-RSS). and 120 for home premium. (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16832116202&CMP=OTC-RSS)

digital_exhaust

01-23-2007, 06:59 PM

kind of a shady question but how would MS know what MB I had in my computer when I originally installed Vista?

Microsoft doesn't know what mobo you have, but the Vista install on that system does.

water1

01-23-2007, 07:23 PM

So MS dosen't keep a record on their server locking your Vista key to the first motherboard you installed it on ?

SleeplessIncubus

01-23-2007, 07:36 PM

So MS dosen't keep a record on their server locking your Vista key to the first motherboard you installed it on ?

yeah, thats a good question

bendit

01-23-2007, 08:38 PM

No you got some bad info. people get confused by the term "upgrade". what msft means by upgrade is that you just have to "prove" you have a copy of XP. It doesn't mean you have to have it installed and then have vista write over your install.

There is only ONE DVD folks. Its the same disk for UPGRADE, RETAIL and OEM. What you have to get clear on is the LEGALITIES of each version and then apply them to your particular situation, so that you choose the correct and most cost effective version for you.

regards

ok did some more searching and found out that the upgrade versions of vista you first must install XP and then from there install Vista.

that sounds very time consuming. it also will prevent having a clean install.

is this correct?

bendit

01-23-2007, 08:43 PM

once you choose to activate windows, msft "knows" everything you have installed on your system. You know those system information utilities? msft has one too and runs it at activation and copies that info to their servers.

regards

So MS dosen't keep a record on their server locking your Vista key to the first motherboard you installed it on ?

bendit

01-23-2007, 08:45 PM

It's true.

I was just wondering if anybody was able to get their hands on a brand new oem vista? I was reading the reviews of it on newegg and came across somebody that stated this:

"All Flavors of Vista are on a disc (Basic, Premium, Business, Ultimate) to be unlocked appropriately by your productl key, but ONLY for 32 bit or 64 bit. 32 bit processors cannot run 64 bit code, so the 32 and 64 bit packages are sold seperately. If you buy the wrong version (ie need CD's instead of DVD's or you need the 64bit version), there's a website listed in the packaging to order the proper version from microsoft for shipping and handling cost only."

Does anybody know if that is true or not that you can mail in the 32bit for a 64bit version?

SleeplessIncubus

01-23-2007, 08:45 PM

No you got some bad info. people get confused by the term "upgrade". what msft means by upgrade is that you just have to "prove" you have a copy of XP. It doesn't mean you have to have it installed and then have vista write over your install.

There is only ONE DVD folks. Its the same disk for UPGRADE, RETAIL and OEM. What you have to get clear on is the LEGALITIES of each version and then apply them to your particular situation, so that you choose the correct and most cost effective version for you.

regards

Its all on one disk? wow. so will my oem xp pro disk work ok with the upgrade version or do I have to purchase the retail?

bendit

01-23-2007, 08:46 PM

It's true. Except you don't mail in your dvd. you just get another one.

I was just wondering if anybody was able to get their hands on a brand new oem vista? I was reading the reviews of it on newegg and came across somebody that stated this:

"All Flavors of Vista are on a disc (Basic, Premium, Business, Ultimate) to be unlocked appropriately by your productl key, but ONLY for 32 bit or 64 bit. 32 bit processors cannot run 64 bit code, so the 32 and 64 bit packages are sold seperately. If you buy the wrong version (ie need CD's instead of DVD's or you need the 64bit version), there's a website listed in the packaging to order the proper version from microsoft for shipping and handling cost only."

Does anybody know if that is true or not that you can mail in the 32bit for a 64bit version?

SleeplessIncubus

01-23-2007, 08:53 PM

It's true. Except you don't mail in your dvd. you just get another one.

So if I buy the x86 version I can mail away for a copy of the x64 version as well?

digital_exhaust

01-23-2007, 09:34 PM

once you choose to activate windows, msft "knows" everything you have installed on your system.

I'm dead serious when I ask this, but are you sure, I mean to me that sounds a little paranoid, and I'm not trying to be an asshole when I say that. I'm very curious and would like to learn more about this. Do you have a link or a reference that can validate what your saying?

I just think it's interesting, and like I said, no offense intended here, I would just like a little validation on this one, that's all.

bendit

01-23-2007, 09:45 PM

i have one word for you guys who are SO needy for More information but don't want to lift your mouse to find it.
GOOGLE

digital_exhaust

01-23-2007, 10:34 PM

i have one word for you guys who are SO needy for More information but don't want to lift your mouse to find it.
GOOGLE

Google. Wow.

I thought I made it clear that I was being sincere when I asked the question that I did. So, instead of trying to contribute, you find it better to give a conceded and pompus answer?

That's alright, thanks for the help though. I'm off to go scour Google for an answer that you obviously can easily answer, but apparently don't care to.

"regards":D

bendit

01-23-2007, 10:48 PM

quit acting like a little helpless victim. this took me one minute to find with google

What is Microsoft Product Activation?
WPA is the licence that Microsoft uses that limits an install of a Microsoft product such as Windows XP. This would stop you from using your copy of Windows XP you used on your desktop to also work on your laptop. Windows XP will generally remind you to activate your copy of windows about 30 days after installation (most common with Windows XP Home). This involves your computer contacting Microsoft and giving them some information about the current hardware you have installed. This returns a release code which will be recorded on your system.
Every time your system boots, Windows checks to see if it is still installed on the same hardware. If the hardware doesn’t match you will be unable to do much more than backup your files until you call Microsoft that your system broke down, had to be rebuilt and thus have to get a new release code off them.
What hardware does Windows check?
The system checks these ten categories of hardware:

Display Adapter
SCSI Adapter
IDE Adapter (effectively the motherboard)
Network Adapter (NIC) and its MAC Address
RAM Amount Range (i.e., 0-64mb, 64-128mb, etc.)
Processor Type
Processor Serial Number
Hard Drive Device
Hard Drive Volume Serial Number (VSN)
CD-ROM / CD-RW / DVD-ROM

bbz_Ghost

01-23-2007, 11:05 PM

Geezus, all these years later and people still don't have a clue about how activation works.

Well, to be honest, no one outside of Microsoft really does, but to put it bluntly and to add upon the post above, it's about this simple:

Every piece of hardware in your machine has a PCI Device ID, more or less. The Device IDs of the hardware in the 10 categories listed above are thrown into some tricked out algorithm of Microsoft's design and when it's done crunching those IDs into something it can use, it spits out a 50 digit ID (yes, another one). That 50 digit ID is pretty unique considering all the information used to create it, a fingerprint if you will for your specific machine at the time you do the activation.

That 50 digit ID, along with the 25 digit Product Key that's used to install your particular version of Windows is then sent to Microsoft's activation servers to be entered into the activation database for safe keeping.

THAT'S IT.

No other personally identifiable data is sent, no Device IDs are sent, no hardware inventories are sent, etc. Yes, theoretically Microsoft could take that 50 digit ID and break it back down - reverse engineer the code, so to speak - and get some idea of what hardware your machine is actually comprised of, but let's be realistic here: that would require Microsoft to have a database someplace with every single piece of computer hardware ever manufactured in human history in it, and even Microsoft ain't capable of that.

So, once the 25 digit Product Key and the 50 digit activation ID are sent to the servers at Microsoft, they store it for safekeeping. Later on, if another activation request comes in, the server does a lookup on the Product Key and finds it's already "tied" to a 50 digit activation ID- a different one than the one you're trying to use at that moment, that's where you get the "Already activated" message and you're dead in the water.

This is, again, about as simplistic as it gets. Vista uses the same basic procedure for activation since the process hasn't failed for Microsoft since XP came out. No reason to fix something that ain't broke.

SleeplessIncubus

01-23-2007, 11:32 PM

hmmm these posts are nice and all but still dont answer my question.

Can I use my Windows XP Pro OEM disk & an Windows Vista Home Premium Upgrade Disk together? Will I still be able to do a fresh install w/o having to install anything and just insert the XP disk when prompted during installation - like with XP?

2nd question. Will I still be able to mail away for the x64 version of Vista Home Premium even if I purchased the Upgrade version or is it for the retail version only?

thanks :)

bbz_Ghost

01-24-2007, 01:59 AM

BIGDADDY51

01-24-2007, 02:08 AM

ok did some more searching and found out that the upgrade versions of vista you first must install XP and then from there install Vista.

that sounds very time consuming. it also will prevent having a clean install.

is this correct?

i also read that the OEM versions of Vista will only be able to be installed on one machine and tied to the original equipment therefore making upgrades painful.

i guess ill have to go with the retail home premium @ $239The upgrade for Vista is a little different than XP was. Your copy of XP must be installed AND ACTIVATED before you can use the upgrade disc, BUT you can then choose a clean install of Vista from there, also called a custom install, that will wipe out any old apps and other files.

SleeplessIncubus

01-24-2007, 02:10 AM

Question 1: I can't see why not. That's the "standard" way to "upgrade" an OS that might not be installed. The upgrade edition installer will request you insert the media for the legit version you're upgrading from.

Question 2: Yep.

Thanks Ghost.....

With question 1 I was concerned because I wasnt sure if there was going to be a problem with XP being an OEM version and not an upgrade or retail version.

SleeplessIncubus

01-24-2007, 02:12 AM

The upgrade for Vista is a little different than XP was. Your copy of XP must be installed AND ACTIVATED before you can use the upgrade disc, BUT you can then choose a clean install of Vista from there, also called a custom install, that will wipe out any old apps and other files.

see I said that before and someone wrote that I got bad information.....that is why im so fvcking confused about this damned upgrade....i keep getting conflicting information from everyone.

edit: see posts #2 and #11

BIGDADDY51

01-24-2007, 02:12 AM

Question 1: I can't see why not. That's the "standard" way to "upgrade" an OS that might not be installed. The upgrade edition installer will request you insert the media for the legit version you're upgrading from.

Question 2: Yep.What was true with XP is no longer true with Vista No more just putting in the disc to prove ownership of the previous OS .Vista requires that XP be installed and activated, before an upgrade is allowed, BUT you can do a clean install from there aka Custom install.

BIGDADDY51

01-24-2007, 02:15 AM

see I said that before and someone wrote that I got bad information.....that is why im so fvcking confused about this damned upgrade....i keep getting conflicting information from everyone.

edit: see posts #2 and #11 My info is from the Microsoft OEM builders website.

ryan_975

01-24-2007, 02:21 AM

The upgrade for Vista is a little different than XP was. Your copy of XP must be installed AND ACTIVATED before you can use the upgrade disc, BUT you can then choose a clean install of Vista from there, also called a custom install, that will wipe out any old apps and other files.

Are you sure about that? (serious question, not a flame or anything) That would be quite the pain in the ass if my hard drive were to die and I didn't have a complete image backed up or something.

SleeplessIncubus

01-24-2007, 02:22 AM

My info is from the Microsoft OEM builders website.

Your information is pretty much what I have read and thought was right. I just wanted to make 100% sure on what version I had to purchase. So I post this thread and get told a million different things. I'm about to say F this keep Xp and let other people experiment with the upgrades.

BIGDADDY51

01-24-2007, 02:36 AM

Are you sure about that? (serious question, not a flame or anything) That would be quite the pain in the ass if my hard drive were to die and I didn't have a complete image backed up or something. Absolutely, but I couldn't find a solid answer to the question of being able to go back to your old OS. For the Free upgrade promo, Vista is tied to the coa of the software that came in the promo pkg, and it was stated that once you upgraded ,you couldn't go back to MCE, But this info was not directly from MS.I just read exactly the same info about the upgade in another thread here, but I found it at the OEM Microsoft small system builders forum. It's probably gonna be a real load of bull crap for a while. I bought a retail copy of XP PRO, just to have that to fall back on. What I'm realy concerned about is the Kill switch deal. I wouldn't put it past MS to put all this DRM /kill switch stuff in the form of an update for XP PRO, so be sure you make it so you can review the updates BEFORE they install. Since 2000 doesn't require activation, I wonder how they are going to allow an upgrade from that.http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1148299

SleeplessIncubus

01-30-2007, 08:03 PM

Ok, with all the discussions about clean installs and work arounds I think I am just going to buy a retail Home Premium x64 version and mail away for the x86 version.

Can I still dual boot with my OEM copy of XP on a different partition...since I'll have the retail version of Vista.

That way if I have any problems with drivers i can just boot to XP....and just keep playing with vista until the problems are solved (if ever)

BIGDADDY51

01-30-2007, 08:13 PM

reswob

01-30-2007, 08:15 PM

wrong thread lol

SleeplessIncubus

01-30-2007, 08:57 PM

Not even sure if you want to trust a dual boot. There were quite a few problems with Vista?XP dual boot configs. in the beta program. I'd put the Vista copy on it's own drive.

wow. that sucks. i had vista for a couple days to test out on my rig and everything worked fine but I forgot about my printers. i just read a thread about HP not supporting their older printers with vista (yet) and looked and mine are not supported.

hmm not sure what to do....has anyone out there tried to dual boot with the retail versions of xp and vista?