Nintendo Wii is going to cost a lot more that what you thought.

[ellover009]

Everywhere is the wii this the wii that, so I decided to check it out, I went to gamestop online.
First thing I noticed is games cost $60, problem is that they are downgraded version that the other two consoles will have, shouldn't the games cost $50 since they don't match up graphically to the other consoles version?
examples
http://duggmirror.com/gaming_news/Attack_of_the_Jaggies_in_Wii_Call_of_Duty_3/
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/10/06/joystiq-hands-on-call-of-duty-3/
Game Prices
http://www.gamestop.com/search.asp?Ntk=TitleKeyword&Ntx=mode%2Bmatchallpartial&Ntt=wii&N=0&find.x=0&find.y=0&find=Search
1GB memory stick $60, compared to 20gb Hard drive $100, difference worth it.
http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=802515
HD cables $60
http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=802520

So les say you wanna play this bad boy.
$250 console, $60 memory stick, $60 HD cable total cost $370 this is not considering additional controller. (in console box includes console, remote, numchuck, cables, sensor bar, stand and wii sports.)
Xbox 360 premium $400, includes 20gb HD, 1 wireless controller, HD cable kit, ethernet cable, headset, xbox live silver.
So does the price difference seem that big now? I am not trying to discredit the console but to bring up that the console is a marketing masterpiece, you think it's cheaper when you check out boom, big price difference.

[Lamont]

GameStop is famous for putting prices above what they will actually be to be safe. Many times I've droped $5~10 more for a game for pre-order, only to get that money back.

Oh, I pre-ordered a bunch of launch games and they are all $49.99.

[CitizenTony]

Doesn't it use an ordinary, everyday SD card for memory?

[Lamont]

That's what I heard, I got a 2 GB SD card for 28 bucks.

I guess wii'll find out on launch day after we get these bad-boys home.

[ScreamingBroccoli]

you don't need an HD cable or a memory stick. The you can add the cost of wifi to your 360 price, and you'll have a huge difference.

Yes it does take ordinary SD cards

[Daggah]

Jesus, the price on those component cables is ridiculous, especially considering the Wii's low-tech graphics abilities.

[BillLeeLee]

Jesus, the price on those component cables is ridiculous, especially considering the Wii's low-tech graphics abilities.

I'll be an optimist here and say that's bogus. The last generation components were $20 - 25, but my thinking is that Gamestop doesn't really know the price.

I've had them give me bogus pre-order pricing before before. I preordered a game, it came $10 cheaper than what they told me it would cost.

Plus, all the prices I've seen on Wii games show that they are $50 tops - even the Gamestop links have preorder prices for the games at $50.

[swatbat]

Jesus, the price on those component cables is ridiculous, especially considering the Wii's low-tech graphics abilities.

They are a thrid party set. You will be able to find them less then that. The memory card thing is BS as you can get a 1 gig stick for 20 bucks and hell doesn't the wii have 512 flash onboard to save games?

[Daggah]

I'll be an optimist here and say that's bogus. The last generation components were $20 - 25, but my thinking is that Gamestop doesn't really know the price.

I've had them give me bogus pre-order pricing before before. I preordered a game, it came $10 cheaper than what they told me it would cost.

Plus, all the prices I've seen on Wii games show that they are $50 tops - even the Gamestop links have preorder prices for the games at $50.

Actually, gamecube component cables are practically impossible to buy now and are significantly more expensive than $20-25 on ebay.

[BillLeeLee]

Actually, gamecube component cables are practically impossible to buy now and are significantly more expensive than $20-25 on ebay.

I know, I was looking for one. ;)

When they were actually in production, Nintendo sold them directly for around that amount.

However, the Wii uses a different connector to the Wii, so hopefully (keyword) Nintendo finally makes components more plentiful.

[Daggah]

They are a thrid party set. You will be able to find them less then that. The memory card thing is BS as you can get a 1 gig stick for 20 bucks and hell doesn't the wii have 512 flash onboard to save games?

How much less?

LOL on the "official" memory stick prices though - just like Nintendo to jack up the price like that.

[LeviathanZERO]

Actually, gamecube component cables are practically impossible to buy now and are significantly more expensive than $20-25 on ebay.

Because they have been discontinued. Mine cost $15 when I bought it from Nintendo.

[swatbat]

How much less?
.


I'll be willing to bet you can find a set for 30 bucks once they come out. Hard to say right now as they are not out yet.

[CKMorpheus]

Thank goodness I work at Best Buy and I can get a nice discount on all the super-expensive accesories.

[CodeX]

First thing I noticed is games cost $60, problem is that they are downgraded version that the other two consoles will have, shouldn't the games cost $50 since they don't match up graphically to the other consoles version?

So when did you play the Wii and all of these cross platform games? Are you an industry insider or something? You must have played it in order to make sweeping generalizations such as those. Three words: Resident Evil 4. It looked best on the Gamecube, not many people will argue...

[swatbat]

So when did you play the Wii and all of these cross platform games? Are you an industry insider or something? You must have played it in order to make sweeping generalizations such as those. Three words: Resident Evil 4. It looked best on the Gamecube, not many people will argue...

The gamecube was about as powerful as the ps2. Diffrence is that the wii seems to be a lot less powerful then the sony/ms offering. The screenshots of games on the systems of the same game and the comments by developers tend to lead to this. True to that most of the screenshots just don't look as good as games on the 360 or comming out. Personaly the graphics are not that important to me. Gameplay is. I figure that if they can pull off the controlls right it is worth the extra few bucks a game. Besides look at the 360. Games were all comming out at 60 bucks(70 for collectors ed). Companies have already started to release games less then that. Test Drive is what 40 bucks new? You will see the same thing happen with the wii.

[DaRat]

the games for the wii will be cheaper than the other consoles, 40-50 definately. The cables and controllers i can see being the same amount.


m ready for wii, been playing n64 since i got back to school and nintendo games are probably the most fun party games ever.

[CreamySoupUSA]

So les say you wanna play this bad boy.
$250 console, $60 memory stick, $60 HD cable total cost $370 this is not considering additional controller. (in console box includes console, remote, numchuck, cables, sensor bar, stand and wii sports.)
Xbox 360 premium $400, includes 20gb HD, 1 wireless controller, HD cable kit, ethernet cable, headset, xbox live silver.
So does the price difference seem that big now? I am not trying to discredit the console but to bring up that the console is a marketing masterpiece, you think it's cheaper when you check out boom, big price difference.

So you can take out the $60 SD card on the Wii pricing since it has 512MB onboard, and add in $150 on the 360 for a wireless adapter and a game ;) :D

[L1ght]

Umm... I'll guess I'll clarify a bit..

Console + wii sports(free) = $250
Controllers = $60 each, including both parts(These ARE expensive)
Games: $50 each
Memory cards = sd cards, and those are cheap!

[mrjminer]

Not too expensive imo:

http://www.engadget.com/2006/10/07/wii-retail-details-markup-and-endcaps/

[Daggah]

I wouldn't say Wii Sports is "free." It's a $20-30 game (most likely) that really is being used as an excuse to jack the price up another $50. The Wii should be around $200.

[BillLeeLee]

Not too expensive imo:

http://www.engadget.com/2006/10/07/wii-retail-details-markup-and-endcaps/

Nintendo Wii dog tags and lapel pin? Wow. :p

Where is this warehouse? I wanna do some...recon.

[drizzt81]

Actually, gamecube component cables are practically impossible to buy now and are significantly more expensive than $20-25 on ebay.
Would you think that the short supply ("impossible to buy now") is somehow related to the high price?

[Isaacav2]

"...Once we got things under control however, it was a lot more enjoyable playing the Wii version. Yes, it might have GameCube quality graphics, but it adds boatloads of a much more important element: fun. All of the hand swinging and gesturing really immerses you in the game."

From the Joystick link.

;)

[Wondernerd]

What about those of us that play games for fun and really don't think graphics are the deciding factor of a game.

Sure, I like pretty as much as anybody but when the main selling point of your basketball game is it contains an accurate portrayal of the player's current line of shoes, I think the game company is missing the point.

[finalgt]

60 bucks for a Mad Catz component cable? My ass. Worst case scenario is that that's the same price as the Nintendo version, and I highly doubt even that. GameSpot is pulling numbers out of their ass yet again to get preorder money. A fool and his money...

[RancidWAnnaRIot]

I thought you can buy USB harddrives for the wii??

[BillLeeLee]

I thought you can buy USB harddrives for the wii??

That's what Nintendo said months back, but we don't know what kind of drives will be supported. Most likely, I hope, it's just mass storage devices, which is pretty much everything on the market. :)

[Darakian]

$60 for a 1GB SD card... o nose I have never seen a retail store jack up memory prices before :rolleyes:
As others have said HD cables & the memory card are not needed to game.

[desultadox]

The gamecube was about as powerful as the ps2. Diffrence is that the wii seems to be a lot less powerful then the sony/ms offering. The screenshots of games on the systems of the same game and the comments by developers tend to lead to this. True to that most of the screenshots just don't look as good as games on the 360 or comming out. Personaly the graphics are not that important to me. Gameplay is. I figure that if they can pull off the controlls right it is worth the extra few bucks a game. Besides look at the 360. Games were all comming out at 60 bucks(70 for collectors ed). Companies have already started to release games less then that. Test Drive is what 40 bucks new? You will see the same thing happen with the wii.

ROFL! Are you kidding? You do know that several developers (From Software, Team Ninja, etc.) refused to develop for PS2 because they considered it 'last-gen,' as in not up-to-date with Nintendo and Microsoft, right? You also know that even 1999's Sega Dreamcast outperformed the PS2 and any titles ported to the PS2 had to be downgraded (Resident Evil Code Veronica, Grandia 2, etc.), right? The Gamecube was just a step behind the Xbox. In this case the Wii is weaker, just as the PS2 was ... but the console and the games are less expensive, unlike the PS2. I don't know how anyone can feel cheated...

[Slartibartfast]

Devil's Advocate:

Wii: $60 for 1gb?

PS2: $25 for 8mb....

:D

[andypnb]

Devil's Advocate:

Wii: $60 for 1gb?

PS2: $25 for 8mb....

:D

dfferent gen though.
the 59 block memory card for gamecube is roughly 4 megs. the 250 block is 16 mb. i dont remember what the prices were back then though, now its about $20.

[Liekomg]

Why are we arguing about memory card prices? The system ships with 512mb built in. That will be more than enough for most players to store save game files (1-5mb per game?), and the occasional SNES or N64 game downloaded from their store. Hell, N64 games are only 4-30mb or so in size anyway (say an average of 15mb), so unless you plan on purchasing a LOT of downloaded games, the built in 512mb will be more than enough for players.

The only reason I see having to worry about purchasing more storage is if Nintendo starts to offer downloadable demo's like on XBL, which might end up taking a good amount of space.

[Narius]

Everywhere is the wii this the wii that, so I decided to check it out, I went to gamestop online.
First thing I noticed is games cost $60, problem is that they are downgraded version that the other two consoles will have, shouldn't the games cost $50 since they don't match up graphically to the other consoles version?
examples
http://duggmirror.com/gaming_news/Attack_of_the_Jaggies_in_Wii_Call_of_Duty_3/
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/10/06/joystiq-hands-on-call-of-duty-3/
Game Prices
http://www.gamestop.com/search.asp?Ntk=TitleKeyword&Ntx=mode%2Bmatchallpartial&Ntt=wii&N=0&find.x=0&find.y=0&find=Search
1GB memory stick $60, compared to 20gb Hard drive $100, difference worth it.
http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=802515
HD cables $60
http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=802520

So les say you wanna play this bad boy.
$250 console, $60 memory stick, $60 HD cable total cost $370 this is not considering additional controller. (in console box includes console, remote, numchuck, cables, sensor bar, stand and wii sports.)
Xbox 360 premium $400, includes 20gb HD, 1 wireless controller, HD cable kit, ethernet cable, headset, xbox live silver.
So does the price difference seem that big now? I am not trying to discredit the console but to bring up that the console is a marketing masterpiece, you think it's cheaper when you check out boom, big price difference.

ok ya you are retarded... nice try though!!! it has enough built in memory for a couple 100 games so that eliminates the sd card cost (which you can get for way cheap like 2gb for $30) and the game prices are actually $50 gamestop.com is just being the way they are.... and you dont have to buy the component cable.... plus thats not even near official... just gamestop speculation and they know no more than you and me about it... NICE TRY THOUGH!!!

[Darakian]

dfferent gen though.
the 59 block memory card for gamecube is roughly 4 megs. the 250 block is 16 mb. i dont remember what the prices were back then though, now its about $20.
http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=802123
;)

[andypnb]

http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=802123
;)
good point. i think the concept of proprietary game save cards has been a ripoff for a long time.
i am glad that the ps3 has a HD and that the wii has some builtin memory plus it accepts standard memory.

[sabrewolf732]

ROFL! Are you kidding? You do know that several developers (From Software, Team Ninja, etc.) refused to develop for PS2 because they considered it 'last-gen,' as in not up-to-date with Nintendo and Microsoft, right? You also know that even 1999's Sega Dreamcast outperformed the PS2 and any titles ported to the PS2 had to be downgraded (Resident Evil Code Veronica, Grandia 2, etc.), right? The Gamecube was just a step behind the Xbox. In this case the Wii is weaker, just as the PS2 was ... but the console and the games are less expensive, unlike the PS2. I don't know how anyone can feel cheated...

Werd. QFT.

[erwos]

Memory cards = sd cards, and those are cheap!
Are you sure about that? I was under the impression all bets were now off with regards to using standard USB mass storage and/or flash to store game data. (And, yes, that's a relatively recent change announced along with the price and release date.)

Not that you really need it - the on-board 512mb should be OK for game saves and a few VC games. It's way too small for downloadable demos, but maybe they'll let those run off SD and/or USB mass storage.

[Recontech]

You do NOT have to buy a wifi card for a 360. It comes with built in ethernet that works just fine for most of us.

[Psychotext]

You do NOT have to buy a wifi card for a 360. It comes with built in ethernet that works just fine for most of us.

Even if you do want wifi, there's cheaper options than the MS card.

[Sunin]

Nintendo Price Calculator! (http://www.n-sider.com/newsview.php?type=story&storyid=2440)

Use the above and add on component and HD cables.

For me with several games I'm looking at $800 for the following:

WII
Extra controller of each type and an additional classic controller.
Red Steel
Zelda
Excite Truck
Marvel Alliance (or whatever it is called)
COD3
Plus 2k points (I so want to download a bunch of the older games)
Component Cables

But for me the biggest draw is the new interactive gaming style. Its not the graphics, its the fact that games will be fun again, new and unique. Truthfully getting tired of the same old controller games, or PC games. I welcome the change!

Sunin

[BillLeeLee]

Nintendo Price Calculator! (http://www.n-sider.com/newsview.php?type=story&storyid=2440)

Use the above and add on component and HD cables.

For me with several games I'm looking at $800 for the following:

WII
Extra controller of each type and an additional classic controller.
Red Steel
Zelda
Excite Truck
Marvel Alliance (or whatever it is called)
COD3
Plus 2k points (I so want to download a bunch of the older games)
Component Cables

Sunin

How did you get $800. I chose -

Wii
Full wiimote (nunchuk and remote)
2 retro controllers
5 games
2000 points

And got $651 after tax.

Then factor in the component cables, no way that's gonna make up the difference. :confused:

[Sunin]

Ahh forgot Trauma Center

716 with tax, plus 60 for component = 776

1 wii remote
1 nunchuck
2 retro controllers

6 games at 50 = 300
Wii at 250

So I'm off 24 dollars... basically its a 800 purchase for me.

P.S. 7 % sales tax here.

Sunin

[BillLeeLee]

Ahh forgot Trauma Center

716 with tax, plus 60 for component = 776

1 wii remote
1 nunchuck
2 retro controllers

6 games at 50 = 300
Wii at 250

So I'm off 24 dollars... basically its a 800 purchase for me.

P.S. 7 % sales tax here.

Sunin

I figured you forgot to add something in like an extra game or another wiimote or something.

I will almost assure you 1st party components will not cost $60, probably more like $20 - 25 (I'll have to wait for nintendo.com to finally have the accessory). The last-gen Nintendo components were high quality, so I have no doubt the new ones will be too. :D

[theNoid]

Reguardless $250 is WAAAY too much for a Wii. Its just a beefed up GCN with motion sensing.

I will buy one, but when they're likely $149 or less. No way $250.

[Sunin]

LOL not worth it? You are paying for a new gaming innovation. PS3, Xbox 360, etc just added more eye candy and your paying $150 more for that? I'll take the gaming innovation, and putting FUN back into games over eye candy any day!

Sunin

[aznpxdd]

I just hate how Nintendo is forcing us to buy Wii-Sports with it. I'd much rather pay $200-220 for just the system.

[Doward]

You could go to Japan and get it that way :D

I'm sure after the holiday season, we'll see it un-bundled.

EITHER WAY I WANT A WII ASAP. :D

[entermymatrix03]

$60 for component cables? WTF? the 360's vga connector doesn't even cost that much.

[Daggah]

That new controller gimmick...maybe it will make games more fun. Maybe it won't. But even if it does...it's too bad that you'll still be playing the same old Nintendo games once again with the new controller. Yay, Super Mario #325, this time with arm-waving!

Yeah, no thanks. Not for $250 + game prices. Maybe for $100.

[erwos]

I'm confused as to how people are telling me the Wii is "more fun" when they haven't even played these games for a sustained period of time yet.

[rayman2k2]

That new controller gimmick...maybe it will make games more fun. Maybe it won't. But even if it does...it's too bad that you'll still be playing the same old Nintendo games once again with the new controller. Yay, Super Mario #325, this time with arm-waving!

Yeah, no thanks. Not for $250 + game prices. Maybe for $100.



I laugh in your general direction - p.s. getting the Plasma-fire-laser-cannon-beam-gun in Halo 2 is not fun the 325th time around.

Point out to me how Microsoft and Sony have made games more fun then before by releasing a console with better graphics? oooo cool, now my Plasma-fire-laser-cannon-beam-gun has an LED screen on the side telling me how much ammo I have left :rolleyes:

[Daggah]

I laugh in your general direction - p.s. getting the Plasma-fire-laser-cannon-beam-gun in Halo 2 is not fun the 325th time around.

Point out to me how Microsoft and Sony have made games more fun then before by releasing a console with better graphics? oooo cool, now my Plasma-fire-laser-cannon-beam-gun has an LED screen on the side telling me how much ammo I have left :rolleyes:

I don't even like Halo first of all. Secondly the whole "graphics = bad" strawman is not worth responding to. I'll be too busy enjoying the strategic gameplay of Gears of War, or finding new ways to kill zombies in Dead Rising.

With that said I'm withdrawing from this thread.

[Sunin]

I'm confused as to how people are telling me the Wii is "more fun" when they haven't even played these games for a sustained period of time yet.

It is the interactive ability that most are banking on making them more fun. The fact is say you have COD 3 side by side Xbox 360, PS3, and WII.

WII is the only one that is going to have the unique interface and thus IMHO will be more fun to play. IF I want to play it ALA 360/PS3 style I just use the classic controller. To me having that extra option is what I'm willing to pay for and what has me excited. Sorry but I've been to the Arcades recently and the fun games I found to be one's that had unique interface ability. One was a robot game that you had this HUD that fit on your shoulders and you turned around ina 3d environment. The other was a boxing game where you put on gloves and interacted with the game. Both of which I found immensly exhausting and fun! :) So that is what I'm banking on when I say "MORE FUN!"

Sunin

[rayman2k2]

I don't even like Halo first of all. Secondly the whole "graphics = bad" strawman is not worth responding to. I'll be too busy enjoying the strategic gameplay of Gears of War, or finding new ways to kill zombies in Dead Rising.

With that said I'm withdrawing from this thread.



Did I say graphics = bad? I just said that's all Sony and Microsoft seem to focus on. I still am truly pissed that Nintendo isn't doing HD.

Interestingly enough, I found Gears of War to be boring, and that Resident Evil 4 pwns Dead Rising. And yes, I own a 360.

I'll wait until November, when I can have a blast and actually play tennis against my friends...while it's snowing outside.

[FitzRoy]

No HD and no digital video/sound output is a major, and I mean major disappointment for me. Any smart gamer will not buy an all-console port for the wii when the other two systems will have the same game at far better graphics AND digital outputs. The only positives to the wii is that it has the best design, and they finally adopted the standard CD size. If you know Nintendo history, then you know that Nintendo's unrelenting paranoia about CD formats ALLOWED Sony the opportunity to go off and create the playstation. Nintendo should have conceded its console segment, made games for 360 and PS3 (zelda and metroid 1080p anyone?), and continued owning with the handheld market. Period.

[swatbat]

No HD and no digital video/sound output is a major, and I mean major disappointment for me. Any smart gamer will not buy an all-console port for the wii when the other two systems will have the same game at far better graphics AND digital outputs. The only positives to the wii is that it has the best design, and they finally adopted the standard CD size. If you know Nintendo history, then you know that Nintendo's unrelenting paranoia about CD formats ALLOWED Sony the opportunity to go off and create the playstation. Nintendo should have conceded its console segment, made games for 360 and PS3 (zelda and metroid 1080p anyone?), and continued owning with the handheld market. Period.

I don't know about that. Madden when you pretend to throw the football with the controller may be sweet. It all depends on how well that remote control works. Besides I have a feeling that this sucker will rock for party games. Just like the gamecube did.

[Sunin]

Fitz, I'll make a prediction now... You'll look at the WII in 3 years and go wow gaming isn't all about graphics and digital this and digital that.

I have an Onkyo 939 Amp that I drive, my DVD player, PS2, Xbox, and Computer using fiber optic for the audio. So yes I know the sweet goodness of digital. I have a 1080p LCD TV so yes I know the digital goodness of a digital video signal. Will I still go after the Wii because it is fun and for a change a new interactive approach? YES.

Sunin

[o0akoni0o]

No HD and no digital video/sound output is a major, and I mean major disappointment for me. Any smart gamer will not buy an all-console port for the wii when the other two systems will have the same game at far better graphics AND digital outputs. The only positives to the wii is that it has the best design, and they finally adopted the standard CD size. If you know Nintendo history, then you know that Nintendo's unrelenting paranoia about CD formats ALLOWED Sony the opportunity to go off and create the playstation. Nintendo should have conceded its console segment, made games for 360 and PS3 (zelda and metroid 1080p anyone?), and continued owning with the handheld market. Period.
i hope you realize that sony has had its share of failed formats as well which has made people very hesistant to excepting blu ray. and while hd may be a concern to you, for the large of majority of gamers especially those in other countries, hd does not matter or isn't even a concern (where hd is rare). any saying that nintendo should concede its console segment is ridiculous considering the gamecube has been a hit throughout the world.

LOL not worth it? You are paying for a new gaming innovation. PS3, Xbox 360, etc just added more eye candy and your paying $150 more for that? I'll take the gaming innovation, and putting FUN back into games over eye candy any day!

Suninwell said. graphics don't make the games, gameplay does and that has always been a strong point of nintendo. if graphics really mattered to me i would've spent my last paycheck on the latest and greatest vid card and not on a nintendo ds lite with some great games.

[Sunin]

The DS rocks! not to thread jack, but honestly that little system has more power in it then what i grew up with gaming. Absolutely love it!

Sunin

[Narius]

the wii might not have next gen graphics but it has next gen gameplay.. and isnt it gameplay > graphics ..... its not like it's graphics are bad.. just not as good as the 360 or ps3... but my x1900xt has just as good or better graphic potential than those so it goes like this... graphics = pc, fun, party, innovative = wii for me

[erwos]

WII is the only one that is going to have the unique interface and thus IMHO will be more fun to play. IF I want to play it ALA 360/PS3 style I just use the classic controller.
I guess you keep missing my point, which is that it's all conjecture right now, and people are buying into the hype hook, line and sinker. You don't know if you're going to get the classic controller option for those games - indeed, if the gameplay relies so heavily on the Wiimote, chances are, you won't.

You also don't know if it'll be more fun to play, and, frankly, it's slightly boyfanish to say so before release. How do you know what's fun based on screenshots and videos? A new control method does not suddenly make all games more fun. Indeed, what is the measure for "X is more fun than Y"? Is my gamepad controller more fun to use than, say, a mouse and keyboard? Is a steering wheel more fun than a joystick? Is a lightgun more fun than a DDR mat?

I don't know if Gears of War, WarHawk, or Wii Sports will be "more fun", because I haven't played any of them for a sustained period of time, and as far as I know, no one else (independent) has either. THAT is what makes all of this conjecture stupid.

Let me follow up with another gripe: the CPU power and graphical power of the console _is_ important. Games like Dead Rising, where you've got to render massive numbers of models to the screen and control them, really don't appear to be possible on the Wii. There are definitely innovative gameplay techniques that require more horsepower - and pretending that only a magical controller is the way to salvation is silly.

Summary:
1. New controller does not necessarily mean "more fun"
2. You cannot say something is "more fun" without having played it.
3. More CPU and graphics power _can_ mean more innovative games.

That's enough for now.

-Erwos

[Sunin]

I do agree with you, and just the fact that they are approaching gaming from a different angle, is enough for me to want to encourage the market to get innovative. I mean I'd love to see more innovation and unique gaming options out there. And thus I will support Wii even if it does fail, if for no other reason then to hopefully get more innovative gaming in the future.

Sunin

[CodeX]

That new controller gimmick...maybe it will make games more fun. Maybe it won't. But even if it does...it's too bad that you'll still be playing the same old Nintendo games once again with the new controller. Yay, Super Mario #325, this time with arm-waving!

Yeah, no thanks. Not for $250 + game prices. Maybe for $100.

Cost is relative, if you are dirt poor it might seem expensive, for me it seems like a steal

[CodeX]

Summary:
1. New controller does not necessarily mean "more fun"
2. You cannot say something is "more fun" without having played it.
3. More CPU and graphics power _can_ mean more innovative games.


A lot of people who have played are saying it is more fun.
This isn't 6 months ago, this thing is being released in a month, a lot of people have played it already, and the reviews have been exceptional

[erwos]

A lot of people who have played are saying it is more fun.
This isn't 6 months ago, this thing is being released in a month, a lot of people have played it already, and the reviews have been exceptional
Playing a game for fifteen minutes to an hour is worthless as a "review". We have gotten a bunch of short impressions thus far. We have absolutely no idea how these games hold up to time. _Any idiot can write something that's fun for an hour!_ What's worse is that the people doing these short impressions aren't even the so-called casual gamers that Nintendo is supposedly targetting.

The PS3 is being released in a month, and it's in pretty much the same shape, too.

[Kevl4R]

I am sitting on the fence here on whether or not to get a Wii or 360 for the kids for Christmas. The kids are 7-10 years old and as I see it this is where things are shaking out:

Wii - New and innovative gameplay with alot of launch titles that can be considered child friendly. Now I know the kids will be happy with the graphics and the new contorller style looks like it is going to be fun. However, will that motion detection be fun in 10 days...20 day or 3 months?

360 - Superior graphics and XBlive Marketplace

I will be honest, I really would rather get a 360 because I'm not sure that I want to be jumping around the living room like an idiot not to mention I think after the novelty wears off the kids wont want to do that either. But then again that would be selfish. However $400 is alot of money no matter how you slice it.

What would seal the deal for me would be a $50 price break on the 360 Premium.

[erwos]

What would seal the deal for me would be a $50 price break on the 360 Premium.
You can find a 360 for < $350 right now at places like Overstock.com.

That said, I would wait for the Wii reviews anyways. It appears that there won't be a massive shortage of either the Wii or the 360, so there's no harm in waiting a little while to make the decision. If you figure that the gaming sites will start getting demo units in before release, you should have enough information to make a decision by Black Friday or so.

-Erwos

[Sunin]

I am sitting on the fence here on whether or not to get a Wii or 360 for the kids for Christmas. The kids are 7-10 years old and as I see it this is where things are shaking out:

Wii - New and innovative gameplay with alot of launch titles that can be considered child friendly. Now I know the kids will be happy with the graphics and the new contorller style looks like it is going to be fun. However, will that motion detection be fun in 10 days...20 day or 3 months?

360 - Superior graphics and XBlive Marketplace

I will be honest, I really would rather get a 360 because I'm not sure that I want to be jumping around the living room like an idiot not to mention I think after the novelty wears off the kids wont want to do that either. But then again that would be selfish. However $400 is alot of money no matter how you slice it.

What would seal the deal for me would be a $50 price break on the 360 Premium.
When it comes to kids I would agree with you.. your much better off with a 360 and compusa ran a $50 price break a week or two ago! So I would expect it will get that deal as you stated. 360 is a gauranteed working system that has a definite quality where nintendo is an unknown. I am willing to risk on the unknown because: 1. I have the money 2. I'm buying it for me. So yeah I agree go 360 and be done with it, maybe next xmas if the nintendo is a success splurge for it then.

Sunin

[desultadox]

Reguardless $250 is WAAAY too much for a Wii. Its just a beefed up GCN with motion sensing.

I will buy one, but when they're likely $149 or less. No way $250.


Typical hardware-ignorant response. What do you know about the gamecube hardware to called the Wii a "beefed up GCN"? Anything? Processor type? Clock speed? Core count? Can you tell me how many polygons per second the GCN pushed? What about textures per pass? Texture bandwidth? How much internal memory did it have? Do you even understand what I'm saying???

Just because Sony told you that, doesn't make it true.

[Kevl4R]

You can find a 360 for < $350 right now at places like Overstock.com.

That said, I would wait for the Wii reviews anyways. It appears that there won't be a massive shortage of either the Wii or the 360, so there's no harm in waiting a little while to make the decision. If you figure that the gaming sites will start getting demo units in before release, you should have enough information to make a decision by Black Friday or so.

-Erwos

I checked Overstock and it was listed as $398....how are people coming up with $350? I have heard this before.

[texuspete00]

I know nintendo's angle and everything, but I can't help but think they have a lot of ground to cover with that controller. They are doing side by sides in the new mags and stuff. I mean ever so slightly improved over gamecube graphics, just seems like biting off a bit more than can be chewed. The shooter I thought would be super neat, Red Steel?, is apparently not shaping up so well either. :( I guess the tech is all in the controller, because $250 for the hardware inside is actually PRICEY next to the 360.

I think MS is ready for war too. I paid ~$437 for my xbox360 premium, Burnout Revenge, extra wireless controller, and plug and charge kit at overstock probably as much as 3 months ago.

[texuspete00]

I checked Overstock and it was listed as $398....how are people coming up with $350? I have heard this before.

Don't know if it's running right now but all you have to do is go through fatwallet. Often -12%first time buyers, -10% everyone else. Might get FW cash back as well but I got screwed out of that. Maybe I had items in my cart too long. The purchase never got back to FW, but the click through for 12% worked. TBH this was one of my best purchases ever regardless.

[Sunin]

Typical hardware-ignorant response. What do you know about the gamecube hardware to called the Wii a "beefed up GCN"? Anything? Processor type? Clock speed? Core count? Can you tell me how many polygons per second the GCN pushed? What about textures per pass? Texture bandwidth? How much internal memory did it have? Do you even understand what I'm saying???

Just because Sony told you that, doesn't make it true.


Not to support theNoid as I think his comment was senseless, Orgamyi or whatever the President's name is stated that himself. That this is basically a beefed up Game Cube.

So he is correct there. The rest of what he says... well whatever...

Sunin

[texuspete00]

Typical hardware-ignorant response. What do you know about the gamecube hardware to called the Wii a "beefed up GCN"? Anything? Processor type? Clock speed? Core count? Can you tell me how many polygons per second the GCN pushed? What about textures per pass? Texture bandwidth? How much internal memory did it have? Do you even understand what I'm saying???

Just because Sony told you that, doesn't make it true.


Or my 14 year old cousin can look at the pics and just know, why can't you? I guess nintendo is making money or breaking even on the Wii hardware, while MS is losing. Fair enough. I also think at the end of the day, this makes it extremely difficult for "bang for the buck" to lie towards the cheaper console then. Yes, I know this is all comes back to "hardware nonsense." Gameplay is important, so yeah, once again, the controller will make or break this console.

It's just misleading to call it cheap without considering other factors. Bang for the buck, it's no steal. There are no mysteries to why it is cheap and it's not because nintendo loves you. The CONTROLLER is next-gen. I'll stop now, because that's all there is to it. I don't want to talk hardware on HardForums! :p

[Sunin]

Or my 14 year old cousin can look at the pics and just know, why can't you? I guess nintendo is making money or breaking even on the Wii hardware, while MS is losing. Fair enough. I also think at the end of the day, "bang for the buck" can't possibly lie in the nintendo then can it? Yes, I know gameplay is important, so yeah, once again, the controller will make or break this console.

NEWS FLASH - Nintendo has almost always made money on the sale of their consoles!!! So this is nothing new.

The controller will help, but also what other innovations they have, the whole download any game from their previous libraries, and such is very appealing! Also the Wii is supposed to interact with the DS as does the Game cube, which expands the possibilities, and who knows what other innovations are to come from Nintendo. At least they are not just going same approach better graphics, as has the PS1, PS 2 and now PS3. What innovation is really there? Lets go another route... look at the PSP... you know how many people bought that and now it is either a movie player or glorified ipod? Where the DS was a new approach, touch pad, dual screens, etc... Guess which is the best selling system EVER?

Sunin

[malingjc]

I think the price is relative to what you plan on using it for.

I am going to get one for several reasons.

1. Perhaps I'm just a retard, but I don't do that well on controllers with more than 6 buttons. I can play GTA fairly well on my PS2 but that's my limit. I faired much better on my Gamecube though having 2 joysticks in odd positions plus a directional pad in games like Metal Gear drove me insane. I have a PSP also and love that thing. Now here's the catch. I am looking to get Locoroco. Why get such a weird and wacky game? Left paddle, Right paddle, O and X. That's all you need for the game. It's very intuitive and simple to play and I love the demo. If I can use motion in Madden 07 like passing a ball, which has still to be seen, I will be psyched.

2. I want to play multiple consoles in one. I have an NES and gamecube and if I can play those games and Wii games on one, that would make things so much easier.

3. SD memory cards. Non-proprietary for once. I am so glad to see this. I am hoping I can put my gamecube save games on there also.

4. Zelda. Nuff said.

5. Exercise. I'm out of shape - probably from playing too much BF2. If these games and active controls are what they're cracked up to be. I can move around and get some exercise and have fun doing it.

6. The media center - No one has mentioned it but the main screen (other than Mii, that seems pretty dumb so far) is cool. Weather and current news on a game console? Cool. I'm almost 25 and not really a kid anymore so things like that are pretty nifty to me.

Okay. Flame me - but that's how I see it. Now for my questions:

1. Any word if the Wii will play DVDs and CDs? If it's my DVD player too, I'll be geeked. If you can import music into the memory card like the PSP, even better.

2. Cost for old NES games. I don't want to spend more than like $5 a game - if they're going to rape me on prices, I will not be amused.

- Joe

[Slartibartfast]

I really think that the Wii is going to sell like the DS.

Before the DS came out, everybody thought that it was a worthless gimmick, and that since the PSP was so much more powerful it would completely destroy the DS. Obviously that didn't happen. I think that once the Wii gets rolling and people have had a chance to play it, it's going to do extremely well. In the meantime, I think a lot of people are wary of it and aren't going to jump right in.

Granted, this is my prediction, I could be totally wrong.

[Martyr]

when you say improved gamecube graphics, use resident evil 4 as a starting point, not mario 64

[Sunin]

No DVD play back at launch, maybe considered later. If I recall the cost is 3-8 dollars for all of their old systems, the older the system the cheaper it is.

Slarti - Your dead on I think!

Sunin

[FitzRoy]

i hope you realize that sony has had its share of failed formats as well which has made people very hesistant to excepting blu ray. and while hd may be a concern to you, for the large of majority of gamers especially those in other countries, hd does not matter or isn't even a concern (where hd is rare). any saying that nintendo should concede its console segment is ridiculous considering the gamecube has been a hit throughout the world.

well said. graphics don't make the games, gameplay does and that has always been a strong point of nintendo. if graphics really mattered to me i would've spent my last paycheck on the latest and greatest vid card and not on a nintendo ds lite with some great games.

I think you're failing to see the positives of nintendo dropping its console segment. You people don't get it. Your big battle cry of defense is gaming and innovation are greater than graphics. But if nintendo drops its console and makes games and innovative peripherals for 360 and ps3, you get BOTH. It's in the gamer's best interest for THIS to happen, but it didn't. You also have one less console to worry about with regards to the horrible "exclusive" deals that see a game only appear on one system. Face it - Nintendo doesn't have the resources to compete on a hardware level. They didn't innovate for the sake of innovation. They innovated because they were forced to either stop making consoles or make a console with some utterly different control scheme and pray that people like it. Lastly, you're all making some bold predictions with no understanding of human behavior. There is a very good chance that the wii will not attract families and old people like nintendo wants. This is way fucking easier said than done.

[texuspete00]

NEWS FLASH - Nintendo has almost always made money on the sale of their consoles!!! So this is nothing new.

The controller will help, but also what other innovations they have, the whole download any game from their previous libraries, and such is very appealing! Also the Wii is supposed to interact with the DS as does the Game cube, which expands the possibilities, and who knows what other innovations are to come from Nintendo. At least they are not just going same approach better graphics, as has the PS1, PS 2 and now PS3. What innovation is really there? Lets go another route... look at the PSP... you know how many people bought that and now it is either a movie player or glorified ipod? Where the DS was a new approach, touch pad, dual screens, etc... Guess which is the best selling system EVER?

Sunin

NEWSFLASH - Nintendo has been the portable leader for a few years, while also being console maker #3. So even though what i said was true you still try to make me look stupid with newsflash. Cute.

texuspete00 - You know, in case you couldn't see my screen name way up there!

[malingjc]

Face it - Nintendo doesn't have the resources to compete on a hardware level. They didn't innovate for the sake of innovation. They innovated because they were forced to either stop making consoles or make a console with some utterly different control scheme and pray that people like it.

IMO, I think they innovated because they didn't want to get grouped with Microsoft/Sony. They have their pluses, especially for those with HDTVs. Now since we are all geeks, there are flaws in this thinking. One, we're geeks, and most of us have HDTVs so it is a plus for us. The majority of Americans do not have HDTVs and will not use the superior graphics capabilites of PS3 / Xbox 360.

The question is what parent would not want to see their fat ass lazy teenager get off of the couch and move around. Plus, you get to see them waving this wacky white thing around in the air like an idiot. I mean, I can't wait to see my niece doing that and just laughing. In that manner, I think the Wii will succeed. This is in the same way when DDR came out. I thought it was pretty dumb (and still don't think that highly of it) but it flourished like no other.

I'm not flaming the PS3 or Xbox 360, but Wii will have its strong points and there is no reason to flame those who believe it will too.

[TekSomniaK]

*cough* http://www.vooks.net/modules.php?module=article&id=11048

[malingjc]

*cough* http://www.vooks.net/modules.php?module=article&id=11048

For those too lazy to convert...

Component and Svideo cables: $21
USB Ethernet $24
AC Adapter $25

[UnlimitedMP]

To everyone who says "It's a gimmick" .. I guess that makes DuckHunt for NES, the DS, DDR, and Time Crisis and others gimmicks as well.

And we all know how non-fun those games are. :rolleyes:

[FitzRoy]

IMO, I think they innovated because they didn't want to get grouped with Microsoft/Sony.

That much can be inferred from my statement. They were forced to be different because they could not compete on a hardware level. There were two choices. Do something to differentiate themselves and tap into new age groups, or turn into a game developer with a handheld. They should have done the latter. And I think you missed my point again because you brang up wanting to use the wand-thing. The wand thing could have been made for other systems! It's a peripheral! Once again, if Nintendo stopped making consoles, we would have all of this stuff + HD graphics. You may not be able to take advantage of it YET, but you may within the console's lifespan, and it's not like 1080p downscaled on your tv is going to look worse than 480p. It's a welcome improvement to be able take advantage graphically of the new tv standard.

[Martyr]

That much can be inferred from my statement. They were forced to be different because they could not compete on a hardware level. There were two choices. Do something to differentiate themselves and tap into new age groups, or turn into a game developer with a handheld. They should have done the latter. And I think you missed my point again because you brang up wanting to use the wand-thing. The wand thing could have been made for other systems! It's a peripheral! Once again, if Nintendo stopped making consoles, we would have all of this stuff + HD graphics. You may not be able to take advantage of it YET, but you may within the console's lifespan, and it's not like 1080p downscaled on your tv is going to look worse than 480p. It's a welcome improvement to be able take advantage graphically of the new tv standard.sounds like u just want nintendo games on your ps3.

[Sunin]

That much can be inferred from my statement. They were forced to be different because they could not compete on a hardware level. There were two choices. Do something to differentiate themselves and tap into new age groups, or turn into a game developer with a handheld. They should have done the latter. And I think you missed my point again because you brang up wanting to use the wand-thing. The wand thing could have been made for other systems! It's a peripheral! Once again, if Nintendo stopped making consoles, we would have all of this stuff + HD graphics. You may not be able to take advantage of it YET, but you may within the console's lifespan, and it's not like 1080p downscaled on your tv is going to look worse than 480p. It's a welcome improvement to be able take advantage graphically of the new tv standard.

Hmm my 1080p set looks damn good when playing analog cable stations. This has actually been the biggest surprise to me so far in owning the 52 inch Aquos. And Thus I know 480p will up convert very well on my set, as I am playing DVD movies and am amazed at the clarity. I must admit I am anxious to try HD DVD though... but holding off due to the format war.

David

[FitzRoy]

sounds like u just want nintendo games on your ps3.

Umm, duh? Does it sound like I hate Nintendo? I love Nintendo gameplay. Ever since my first post, I've stated that I wanted Nintendo games in HD resolutions, be it PS3 or 360. That would be ideal for every gamer, including yourself. You can only get the gameplay aspect with the wii. We could have gotten both with the other decision.

[desultadox]

Not to support theNoid as I think his comment was senseless, Orgamyi or whatever the President's name is stated that himself. That this is basically a beefed up Game Cube.

So he is correct there. The rest of what he says... well whatever...

Sunin

Almost. The president is Satoru Iwata and what he said is that the architecture is very similar to Gamecube's, as opposed to say Xbox's Intel/nVidia combo vs. 360's IBM/ATi combo, or PS2's overly complicated processor/overly simplified 'graphics adapter' vs. PS3's even MORE complicated processor/nVidia combo. When they compare Gamecube to Wii, they are directing that comment toward developers, because as far as they're concerned, Wii is a beefed up Gamecube (similar development, environment, etc.). Hardware-wise, however, Wii is ahead of the original Xbox and behind the 360 ... Games should look similar to 360/PS3 games MINUS FSAA and HD resolutions (which are obviously huge, especially if you're a PC gamer like myself).

[pr0pensity]

I just hate how Nintendo is forcing us to buy Wii-Sports with it. I'd much rather pay $200-220 for just the system.

It isn't bundled in Japan.

[ellover009]

Its funny sony is not the only one that had a big flop, sony's system overheated and some of them shut down dut to the kiosk cough "improper ventilation", nintendo had a embarassing moment too.
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/sun-1-wii-sensor-bar-0-206340.php
The sun seems to disable the wireless controller dock bar. Well guys you can officially go and buy a nintendo brand window shades. Whats funny is everyone complains about the PS3 price yet when prerelease went people were breaking theyr neck to get one, all sold out withing 10 mins of oppening. Seems to analist reports that there is a good ammount of people willing to shell out for the PS3.
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/sun-1-wii-sensor-bar-0-206340.php

[swatbat]

Its funny sony is not the only one that had a big flop, sony's system overheated and some of them shut down dut to the kiosk cough "improper ventilation", nintendo had a embarassing moment too.
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/sun-1-wii-sensor-bar-0-206340.php
The sun seems to disable the wireless controller dock bar. Well guys you can officially go and buy a nintendo brand window shades. Whats funny is everyone complains about the PS3 price yet when prerelease went people were breaking theyr neck to get one, all sold out withing 10 mins of oppening. Seems to analist reports that there is a good ammount of people willing to shell out for the PS3.
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/sun-1-wii-sensor-bar-0-206340.php

They have a lot of issues that could cause those systems to mess up that were on display. Hell the system makers have had issues for a while with kiosk systems. Mind you they prob did overheat but I think it is too early to fully blame the system.

As far as the ps3 selling out on the preorders. Almost every console sells out at launch. Due to the small supply and the fact it is brand new this is nothing to be suspriced about. Now if sony managed to ship like 4 million on launch I don't think they would have sold out. With less then half a mill yea they will quick.

[CodeX]

Its funny sony is not the only one that had a big flop, sony's system overheated and some of them shut down dut to the kiosk cough "improper ventilation", nintendo had a embarassing moment too.
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/sun-1-wii-sensor-bar-0-206340.php
The sun seems to disable the wireless controller dock bar. Well guys you can officially go and buy a nintendo brand window shades. Whats funny is everyone complains about the PS3 price yet when prerelease went people were breaking theyr neck to get one, all sold out withing 10 mins of oppening. Seems to analist reports that there is a good ammount of people willing to shell out for the PS3.
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/sun-1-wii-sensor-bar-0-206340.php

The only reason I will shell out for a PS3 (or two) is because I expect to make a crapload of money selling it online... I suspect that a high percentage of the people that preordered are thinking the same thing. As I said cost is relative, and there are plenty of people in America that won't think twice about spending a grand on a new toy. Just because cost isn't an issue for some people doesn't mean its a better product.

[desultadox]

Its funny sony is not the only one that had a big flop, sony's system overheated and some of them shut down dut to the kiosk cough "improper ventilation", nintendo had a embarassing moment too.
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/sun-1-wii-sensor-bar-0-206340.php
The sun seems to disable the wireless controller dock bar. Well guys you can officially go and buy a nintendo brand window shades. Whats funny is everyone complains about the PS3 price yet when prerelease went people were breaking theyr neck to get one, all sold out withing 10 mins of oppening. Seems to analist reports that there is a good ammount of people willing to shell out for the PS3.
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/sun-1-wii-sensor-bar-0-206340.php


IGN was just making fun of people like you. http://wii.ign.com/articles/738/738266p1.html

That whole sunlight pwning the sensor bar is BS. But sunlight tends to disable most gamers anyway :)

[RancidWAnnaRIot]

Its funny sony is not the only one that had a big flop, sony's system overheated and some of them shut down dut to the kiosk cough "improper ventilation", nintendo had a embarassing moment too.
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/sun-1-wii-sensor-bar-0-206340.php
The sun seems to disable the wireless controller dock bar. Well guys you can officially go and buy a nintendo brand window shades. Whats funny is everyone complains about the PS3 price yet when prerelease went people were breaking theyr neck to get one, all sold out withing 10 mins of oppening. Seems to analist reports that there is a good ammount of people willing to shell out for the PS3.
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/sun-1-wii-sensor-bar-0-206340.php


the direct sunlight rumor has been shot down numerous times...

[sculelos]

I really think that the Wii is going to sell like the DS.

Before the DS came out, everybody thought that it was a worthless gimmick, and that since the PSP was so much more powerful it would completely destroy the DS. Obviously that didn't happen. I think that once the Wii gets rolling and people have had a chance to play it, it's going to do extremely well. In the meantime, I think a lot of people are wary of it and aren't going to jump right in.

Granted, this is my prediction, I could be totally wrong.

I'll probably wait till Januarary till before I buy one just because I'm hoping then Smash Bros, Zelda, Metroid and Mario are released, in the meantime I should have Nwn2 and Dark Messiah to keep me busy.

[Sunin]

LOL PS3 = $600 and won't have HDMI, just a single Yellow Video out cable... Any guesses what Sony will charge for HDMI? Most quality cables, excluding Monoprice.com, have them at the near $100 range. Glad all you next gen tech guys will be paying $700 just for HDMI... sigh.. .what a waste

Sunin

[erwos]

I have three issues with the Wii's hardware:
1. No HD - I think DVDs don't look great in HD, even with scaling, especially compared to OTA HDTV, for instance. It would have been greatly appreciated if they had at least gotten to 720p/1080i, like the Xbox and PS2.
2. Shaders, or lack thereof. The Xbox 360 and PS3 are shader _monsters_, and it's for a good reason - shaders are the future, not raw pixel pushing. The screenshots I've seen of the Wii so far don't give me much hope that it's competing at all in this area.
3. Texture memory. 480p or not, a lack of texture memory is going to create problems with creating huge, varied, seamless worlds (think Oblivion, for instance). The lack of a hard drive means it'll have to hit the DVD, which is even slower. This is conjecture, of course, since we don't know the exact amount of memory in it, but it's unlikely it's going to be 512mb, or as fast as the stuff in the PS3 or 360.

None of this means the Wii is going to suck, of course. I'm just trying to point out that folks ought not fool themselves with statements like "just like the 360, only not in HD", because, so far, that's just not true. The Wii can do stuff the PS3 and 360 can't - but the opposite is true as well.

[Kevl4R]

As an update, I decided on the 360 over the Wii for the kids. That's not to say I won't ever pick up a Wii, however, I just think that after the initial controller novelty wears off, it's hardware limitations will become far more apparent over a shorter period of time.

I snagged a 360 from Amazon with no tax and free shipping..+ got Lego Starwars II. I'll get Sonic for the 360 when it comes out and the youngins will be happy.

[Sunin]

As an update, I decided on the 360 over the Wii for the kids. That's not to say I won't ever pick up a Wii, however, I just think that after the initial controller novelty wears off, it's hardware limitations will become far more apparent over a shorter period of time.

I snagged a 360 from Amazon with no tax and free shipping..+ got Lego Starwars II. I'll get Sonic for the 360 when it comes out and the youngins will be happy.

RIGHT!!! "for the kids" Cough, when daddy isn't playing it that is! LOL congrats!

Sunin

[Slartibartfast]

Honestly I'm always surprised when people talk about hardware limitations. I'm still loving my dreamcast over here!

[CodeX]

As an update, I decided on the 360 over the Wii for the kids. That's not to say I won't ever pick up a Wii, however, I just think that after the initial controller novelty wears off, it's hardware limitations will become far more apparent over a shorter period of time.

I snagged a 360 from Amazon with no tax and free shipping..+ got Lego Starwars II. I'll get Sonic for the 360 when it comes out and the youngins will be happy.

I think you did you kids a major disservice. I think they would have had a lot more fun with the Wii. I sold my 360 months after buying it because I played the same games on my computer and they looked better on it than they did on the 360. Nintendo has always been one thing: fun. Their consoles may not always use the latest technology, but their games are a ton of fun regardless.

[cieje]

Honestly I'm always surprised when people talk about hardware limitations. I'm still loving my dreamcast over here!


I agree. I have an xbox, and no games! I only play emulation on it. I'd say like 90% of my game playing is browsing through thousands of old NES, SNES, SMS, etc games. If I want to play next-gen type games I just turn on my computer.

I can't wait for the wii! =) I'm hoping/expecting my girlfriend to like it.

[BillLeeLee]

Honestly I'm always surprised when people talk about hardware limitations. I'm still loving my dreamcast over here!

People love raw power and the potential for something to provide fancy graphical effects and more realistic worlds and all that whatnot. Of course, I still play SNES and Neo Geo era games (the NG is still kicking after nearly two decades!), but I actually like graphics that are more cartoony (i.e. Metal Slug, Smash Bros., Guilty Gear, Street Fighter Alpha) - it appeals to me more.

Regardless, I don't know why so much Wii hate. You don't like it, more power to you, no one's making you buy one. I'm not gonna be some evangelist shoving it down your throat.

I know for sure I'll get a Wii, and the temptation to get a 360 grows (Phantasy Star Universe, Blue Dragon, Lost Odyssey, Dead Rising, Lost Planet, Bioshock, etc.), so hey, I might be Nintendo + MS this round (rather than my traditional Nintendo + Sony).

[Kevl4R]

I think you did you kids a major disservice. I think they would have had a lot more fun with the Wii. I sold my 360 months after buying it because I played the same games on my computer and they looked better on it than they did on the 360. Nintendo has always been one thing: fun. Their consoles may not always use the latest technology, but their games are a ton of fun regardless.

I mean honestly, in the event they don't like it, I'd get them a Wii. Personally, I prefer PC games...WoW when I have the time. I may even give up the $50 on a Wii Pre-Order just in case. Either way, they love the 360 and Ill take the Wii back...or they hate it and want to try out the Wii.

I guess worst case they want 'em both....I'm a softie but not that big of a softie. :p

[Darakian]

LOL PS3 = $600 and won't have HDMI, just a single Yellow Video out cable... Any guesses what Sony will charge for HDMI? Most quality cables, excluding Monoprice.com, have them at the near $100 range. Glad all you next gen tech guys will be paying $700 just for HDMI... sigh.. .what a waste

Sunin

HDMI is a digital interface (it either works or does not work). A $100 cable will not give you a better signal any more than a $100 cat5 cable will give you a better 10/100 connection :rolleyes:

[PNut12345]

How much less?

LOL on the "official" memory stick prices though - just like Nintendo to jack up the price like that.


You've never seen a Sony memory stick, have you? There's a reason I don't buy Sony hardware: too much expensive, proprietary shit.

[VoodooChi|d]

LOL PS3 = $600 and won't have HDMI, just a single Yellow Video out cable... Any guesses what Sony will charge for HDMI? Most quality cables, excluding Monoprice.com, have them at the near $100 range. Glad all you next gen tech guys will be paying $700 just for HDMI... sigh.. .what a waste

Sunin
Lowest Common Denominator. A TV made in 1996 has composite inputs, a TV made in 2006 has composite inputs. Why screw over the MAJORITY of people by including only HDMI?

As Darakian said, the $5 3 foot HDMI cable will work just as well as the criminally overpriced $100 Monster Cable.

So damn... the $600 PS3 is now $605...

Since Sony offers a non proprietary format like HDMI unlike the $25 Nintendo proprietary component cables you have to buy from Nintendo if you want to play the Wii in 480p...

[K600]

$5 cables don't work as well as $100 cables; I've seen pictures from both on a 100" screen and yes, there are noticeable differences with DVDs. The components that the cables are made from do matter.

[Darakian]

$5 cables don't work as well as $100 cables; I've seen pictures from both on a 100" screen and yes, there are noticeable differences with DVDs. The components that the cables are made from do matter.
Mind explaining this? Same device? Same content being played? If it is true it should manifest itself in other digital media. Yes cable quality matters for analoge cables but on a digital cable the argument is moot.

@Voodoo
Or a proprietary connector like the xbox/360/gamecube/ps2/non-hdmi ps3 ports/etc... :p

[VoodooChi|d]

Mind explaining this? Same device? Same content being played? If it is true it should manifest itself in other digital media. Yes cable quality matters for analoge cables but on a digital cable the argument is moot.

@Voodoo
Or a proprietary connector like the xbox/360/gamecube/ps2/non-hdmi ps3 ports/etc... :p
Well the thread is about the Wii so I had to keep it somewhat on topic :p

K600: What is this 100" screen? Unless you mean a projector displaying on a 100" screen... the only 100" screens are at trade shows...

Assuming it's a 100" projector screen... Were there 2 of these next to each other hooked up exactly the same sans the cable? Highly doubtful and the only way you could make an accurate comparison.

I would like to know what you noticed being "worse" between the 2 images?... and yes I'm setting you up with this question...

If you honestly think that a 3 ft $100 HDMI Monster Cable produces better quality picture than the 3 ft $5 HDMI monoprice cable you are the reason they actually sell $100 HDMI cables... ignorant consumers buying into corporate BS...

[Sunin]

$5 cables don't work as well as $100 cables; I've seen pictures from both on a 100" screen and yes, there are noticeable differences with DVDs. The components that the cables are made from do matter.

Uh have you ever tried monoprice.com cables? I have several cables from them including a DVI to HDMI cable 10 feet and guess what no data loss the Sharp Aquos picked up the full 1920x1080. I'd bet the monoprice cables will hold up to any monster cable at about 1/10th the price. Now damnit get back onto the WII discussion!

Sunin

[K600]

Panasonic AE-900U. Same device, same software (Terminator 2: Judgement Day as it's a very good transfer).

I'm not saying the difference is huge. I'm not saying Monster cables are worth it. I'm not even saying most people would notice if they weren't looking for it. I'm just acknowledging that build quality and the materials used do make a difference. The difference is larger with different brands of component cables, though.

[rayman2k2]

Lowest Common Denominator. A TV made in 1996 has composite inputs, a TV made in 2006 has composite inputs. Why screw over the MAJORITY of people by including only HDMI?

As Darakian said, the $5 3 foot HDMI cable will work just as well as the criminally overpriced $100 Monster Cable.

So damn... the $600 PS3 is now $605...

Since Sony offers a non proprietary format like HDMI unlike the $25 Nintendo proprietary component cables you have to buy from Nintendo if you want to play the Wii in 480p...



Well then, if these so called 5 dollar HDMI cables are so cheap, work so well, and are easy to come by, why doesn't Sony include them with the PS3? :rolleyes:

Secondly, where the hell are you seeing 5 dollar HDMI cables?

[MantiC]

Panasonic AE-900U. Same device, same software (Terminator 2: Judgement Day as it's a very good transfer).

I'm not saying the difference is huge. I'm not saying Monster cables are worth it. I'm not even saying most people would notice if they weren't looking for it. I'm just acknowledging that build quality and the materials used do make a difference. The difference is larger with different brands of component cables, though.

No you can't tell a difference, because there is none.

[Hulk]

Everywhere is the wii this the wii that, so I decided to check it out, I went to gamestop online.
First thing I noticed is games cost $60, problem is that they are downgraded version that the other two consoles will have, shouldn't the games cost $50 since they don't match up graphically to the other consoles version?
examples
http://duggmirror.com/gaming_news/Attack_of_the_Jaggies_in_Wii_Call_of_Duty_3/
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/10/06/joystiq-hands-on-call-of-duty-3/
Game Prices
http://www.gamestop.com/search.asp?Ntk=TitleKeyword&Ntx=mode%2Bmatchallpartial&Ntt=wii&N=0&find.x=0&find.y=0&find=Search
1GB memory stick $60, compared to 20gb Hard drive $100, difference worth it.
http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=802515
HD cables $60
http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=802520

So les say you wanna play this bad boy.
$250 console, $60 memory stick, $60 HD cable total cost $370 this is not considering additional controller. (in console box includes console, remote, numchuck, cables, sensor bar, stand and wii sports.)
Xbox 360 premium $400, includes 20gb HD, 1 wireless controller, HD cable kit, ethernet cable, headset, xbox live silver.
So does the price difference seem that big now? I am not trying to discredit the console but to bring up that the console is a marketing masterpiece, you think it's cheaper when you check out boom, big price difference.

What exactly is your agenda there, kid? :rolleyes:

[K600]

No you can't tell a difference, because there is none.

...because you've tried it yourself, right :rolleyes:

Some of you are like those soccer moms that swear up and down that all brands of gas are the same. You can't tell the difference so there must not be one, right?

[Wondernerd]

Because a digital signal is Digital. It either works or it doesn't.

That said, a cheap ass cable is more likely to get noisy and all sorts of other nasty shit like improper impedence, capacitance, inductance, and so on. There is a point where the cable matters... but after a point magic enters in and you think you are seeing a difference because you want to.

My favorites are the people that prefer a digital coax over digital optical, because the coax is warmer sounding.

[Wondernerd]

What exactly is your agenda there, kid?

The Wii with games, controllers, and extra cables is more expensive then the PS3 with no games, no accessories and no cables. Nintendo is ripping us off! Why would I want to spend 400 dollars and get a console with three games when I could spend 600 dollars and get a box that I can't play and can't hook up to anything?

[MarvynDT]

The $5 vs $100 HDMI cable just made this thread more interesting for me. In for the continuing argument :D

[VoodooChi|d]

Well then, if these so called 5 dollar HDMI cables are so cheap, work so well, and are easy to come by, why doesn't Sony include them with the PS3? :rolleyes:

Secondly, where the hell are you seeing 5 dollar HDMI cables?
Because the composite is the cheapest and most commonly used. Even if it's cheap they're already selling the PS3 at a loss so it would be hard for them to give you something else they aren't making money on however cheap it is...

HP printers don't come with USB cables... My DVD player didn't come with component cables (highest thing it supports)... My surround sound receiver didn't come with an optical or coaxial audio cable... this is nothing new... it's cost cutting...

btw http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024004&p_id=2526&seq=1&format=2&style= for said $5 HDMI cables... scroll to bottom and you can get a 3 foot one for $5.45 or something.

...because you've tried it yourself, right

Some of you are like those soccer moms that swear up and down that all brands of gas are the same. You can't tell the difference so there must not be one, right?

Do you know what octane is? There is a distinct difference between octane levels of gasoline. This doesn't mean you should always use the highest one though because your car is tuned to work best with a certain octane. RTFM.

You obviously do not understand how digital signal works.

1's and 0's are the only thing sent across the cable. It is VERY hard to turn a 1 into a 0, or a 0 into a 1.

There is only one way a cheaper HDMI cable wouldn't look as good: if the cable is damaged... but a $100 HDMI cable would look just as bad if it was damaged.

I'm still waiting to hear what was "worse" with the cheaper cable.

[Sunin]

HDMI is a digital interface (it either works or does not work). A $100 cable will not give you a better signal any more than a $100 cat5 cable will give you a better 10/100 connection :rolleyes:


I agree but explain why MOnster cable is charging $125 for the same cable that can be found at monoprice for 15? I didn't shell out the 125 that is for sure!

Guess what my TV looks great porting 1080p from the computer!

Sunin

[VoodooChi|d]

I agree but explain why MOnster cable is charging $125 for the same cable that can be found at monoprice for 15? I didn't shell out the 125 that is for sure!

Guess what my TV looks great porting 1080p from the computer!

Sunin
Monster cables use *slightly* better materials (might last longer) and back it up with a lifetime warranty. They charge $125 because they can. People are ignorant and buy it based on the name.

I use monster cables for my guitar because they get a lot of wear and tear on them and whenever one has gone out on me I can just bring it into the store and they'll give me a brand new one. I don't even have to mail it in. Also guitar is analog so the quality of the cable is actually important. Also they're not ridiculously more expensive than the competition.

[KidzMD]

On the topic of cables:

www.avsforum.com (http://www.avsforum.com)

Go here, read one of the hundreds of threads discussing it, all of which point to the fact that you don't need overpriced cables. In fact, many of the members there swearby either monoprice or blue jean cables.

[CodeX]

Because a digital signal is Digital. It either works or it doesn't...

Ever heard of bit flipping? If a high signal is not high enough it will be interpreted as a low signal, likewise in reverse. I don't know if these devices use ECC (error checking and correction) or not but I doubt it. Higher quality cables WILL give a better chance of error-free transmission (especially on long runs or in areas with a lot of EMI), whether you notice it or not depends on far too many factors to discuss here.

[MarvynDT]

Ever heard of bit flipping? If a high signal is not high enough it will be interpreted as a low signal, likewise in reverse. I don't know if these devices use ECC (error checking and correction) or not but I doubt it. Higher quality cables WILL give a better chance of error-free transmission (especially on long runs or in areas with a lot of EMI), whether you notice it or not depends on far too many factors to discuss here.

I don't know how players interpret 1s and 0s, but I think you're re-iterating the same statement. If a bit is flipped, I would expect what you see would appear corrupted. Hence the "either it works or it doesn't" statement. Simply replace the faulty cable with a working cable. Monster cable may charge more based on better construction, but in the end, both cables working, you will end up with the same picture. So you can say that the extra cost is in the construction of the cable, but not in the picture quality.

Moving to the gasoline analogy, technically all gasolines are the same as the base level, ignoring octane as similar octane ratings can mean different things depending on your location. What makes one company's gasoline different from the other is the additives and detergents that they put into it.

[Wondernerd]

Ever heard of bit flipping? If a high signal is not high enough it will be interpreted as a low signal, likewise in reverse. I don't know if these devices use ECC (error checking and correction) or not but I doubt it.

Signal strength doesn't really matter with digital. Sure some devices push the signal better, but to have HDMI, they all have to push the same quality signal the same distance. The only way you would ever notice is when you start getting right at the extremes of the suggested cable run. Digital will work perfect until it hits threshold or the "digital cliff". At which point it stops working. This doesn't really conflict with what I said. HDMI has no error correction, and with it using twisted pair with mismatched impedence so it is already subject to rounding and reflections.

The only way you would ever encounter bit flipping is by putting a bunch of shit between sources. Shit like switches and amplifiers. Bit flipping almost never happens due to cables, the only way you would have an issue(because HDMI is a real shitty standard), is if you had a run of more then 10 feet with a shitty cable.

The only thing a high end cable has over a low end cable is the length you can run. Mostly, that will depend on the device(A Panasonic DVD player can push x feet of HDMI, a Toshiba DVD will push 2x feet).

[CodeX]

I don't know how players interpret 1s and 0s, but I think you're re-iterating the same statement. If a bit is flipped, I would expect what you see would appear corrupted. Hence the "either it works or it doesn't" statement...

You think a single bit would break the whole thing? It wouldn't, it would mean the difference between one shade of a color and a tiny different shade of that color... on a single pixel. Hence image quality problems given widescale errors.

...
Okay then, what about EMI? Regardless of whether the signal is being "interpreted" as digital or analog it is the exact same method of transmission through the physical medium and therefore is as subject to EMI as much as anything else. Better quality cable would surely help there, would it not?

[K600]

Do you know what octane is? There is a distinct difference between octane levels of gasoline. This doesn't mean you should always use the highest one though because your car is tuned to work best with a certain octane. RTFM.

No shit Sherlock.

We're not talking about that, though. We're talking about differences between the same octanes (And yes, additives that certain companies put in their gas versus others that don't certainly do make a difference). There's a reason that people who know buy from companies like BP and Shell instead of getting something from Wal-Mart or a lesser blend.

As far as the cables, I guess you don't know what "noise" is. Other people have explained it and other downfalls of cheap cables while I was gone, though.

[Wondernerd]

Okay then, what about EMI?

EMI is a non-issue. HDMI uses Transition Minimized Differential Signaling, which is designed to resist EMI and Skew. One of the few consumer benefits of HDMI is it lets you use cheap short range cables with out any problems. Not only that, but to use the HDMI logo, the cable has to resist EMI.

You would need a huge source of EMI to have an effect.

[MarvynDT]

Not to break off-topic here, but can we move this discussion to its own thread? I'd hate to ruin some Playstation fan-boi's dream of coming in here to bash the Wii only to read about HDMI cables and gasoline.

[K600]

:p Playstation !!!!!!? Wow...you do realize that some of the harshest criticism of the PS3 comes from me, right?

I think it's obvious who holds brand loyalties. Your definition of "It either works or it doesn't" differs from ours, I suppose; for a cable to "work", I expect flawless image quality and accurate colors.

[VoodooChi|d]

:p Playstation !!!!!!? Wow...you do realize that some of the harshest criticism of the PS3 comes from me, right?

I think it's obvious who holds brand loyalties. Your definition of "It either works or it doesn't" differs from ours, I suppose; for a cable to "work", I expect flawless image quality and accurate colors.
If all the 1's and 0's are sent (which the $5 cable would have no problem doing) the image quality will be exactly as flawless and accurate as the $100 cable. Stop spreading BS.

No shit Sherlock.

We're not talking about that, though. We're talking about differences between the same octanes (And yes, additives that certain companies put in their gas versus others that don't certainly do make a difference). There's a reason that people who know buy from companies like BP and Shell instead of getting something from Wal-Mart or a lesser blend.

You never specified it was a difference within the same octanes... judging by most of your posts I assumed the worst.

As far as the cables, I guess you don't know what "noise" is. Other people have explained it and other downfalls of cheap cables while I was gone, though.
You don't get "noise" with a digital signal. Nobody said that except you.

[Darakian]

:p Playstation !!!!!!? Wow...you do realize that some of the harshest criticism of the PS3 comes from me, right?

I think it's obvious who holds brand loyalties. Your definition of "It either works or it doesn't" differs from ours, I suppose; for a cable to "work", I expect flawless image quality and accurate colors.
Ummm.... regardless of any brand loyalites HDMI, DVI, USB, Firewire, Ethernet, etc... etc.... are all digital signals. They are designed to send information in 1's and 0's. I could be wrong but I think they all use packets. This said, if the signal shows up you have the complete picture (or if you transfer a file over a usb connection you have the full file). With component cables you are correct that high end cables do matter, however, component cables are an analoge medium while hdmi is a digital medium.

[Slartibartfast]

This thread has strayed far enough off topic, thank you very much.