The Windows x64 RAID Saga

[DarkStar02]

Here's my story so listen up. I got two brand new Hitachi 7K80 SATA HDD's and a copy of Windows XP x64 Edition a couple days ago to put in a RAID0 array. Never having set up a RAID array or having done anything with RAID period, I tried to do it my own way. I plugged in a floppy disc drive and put in the Windows x64 disc. I went through the usual F6 setup and quicky found out that it wasn't going to work. I installed a copy of regular copy of Windows XP MCE and googled it. I saw the word 'update' in one of the lines of text that google was able to produce so I immediately flashed my BIOS and got new floppy drivers. I formatted the drives and tried setting up a RAID array again. No go. I reinstalled XP MCE and found a tutorial by Angry-Games at the DFI forums. I formatted the drives again and went step by step through the tutorial. In the tutorial, he is able to get to the screen where you can hit 'Enter' to install windows, 'R' to repair, and 'F3' to quit. I, however, BSOD EVERY time I try, and I tried at least 5 times. Pissed, I install a regular copy of x64 just to make sure the disc is fine. The whole integrated drivers thing really helps with x64- it's nice to not have to install drivers everytime I format. The disc works, so I go searching for fixes. I find out that it might be faulty floppy drivers, so I go get a different pair (6.56) of drivers. These ALSO do not work. Getting tired of it all, I install Windows again. I look for a fix again and find that there are problems with the 6.56 drivers and move on up to 6.76, skipping the 6.66 set completely. ANOTHER NO GO! I reinstall windows and read that there are problems with 6.76 and that 6.66 should do the trick. So I download these and try again. NOPE! They also BSOD. About to lose it, I install XP MCE and look for the 'integrated drivers' CD mod I read about somewhere. I followed the tutorial to automatically install the RAID drivers without the F6 method at all(Found here) (http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?showtopic=50659&hl). I know this will work since it did for other people, so I make a new modded image of x64 with nlite using the tutorial. Eager to finally get the drives working, I format the HDD's and go to finally set up my new Windows XP x64 Edition in RAID0! I pop the disc in, go to bios, and set boot to disc. WOOT! It's working! SHIT SHIT SHIT! BSOD at the main Windows screen! Same thing as every other time. Game over, I give up. RAID and I were never meant to be. Fuck it all. :( :(

[unhappy_mage]

Wow! It's almost like raid 0 led to added system complexity! :confused:

http://www.hardfolding.com/ftag1.php/mem/150072.png (http://www.hardfolding.com?go=38&tm=33&id=150072)http://www.hardfolding.com/utag.php/mem/1392.png (http://www.hardfolding.com?go=36&id=1392)

[pxc]

It's funny you mention x64 and RAID0. I just upgraded to a pair of Hitachi 7K250 (160GB) drives yesterday on an Abit NF4 SLI board. I downloaded the 6.67 RAID driver diskette, set up the appropriate options in CMOS setup, created the array and installed x64.

30 minutes later I was on the desktop, ready to go. I installed the 6.69 drivers to get network functionality, 84.21 x64 video drivers and patched x64 through windows update. Smooth as usual. ;) A few application installs and updates later I was finished and happy with the new speed.

Due to some limitations (4 IDE drives installed) and distances, I put both hard drives on the same cable. Even with that i'm getting 115MB/s (beginning) - 80MB/s (end) read speeds in HDTach, which is strange since it's a pair of ATA/100 drives on one cable and the PCI bus isn't overclocked. :confused:

[Lord of Shadows]

My x64 raid install went smooth as butter, but then again my drivers worked. ;o) If I were you I'd install x64 on a spare drive and just try to get it to detect the raid array before trying to install the os on it with unproven drivers.

[XOR != OR]

You're putting your system drive on a raid0 array?

I'm thinking there are more problems here than you are aware of.

[thedude42]

so, is this an nforce4 board? did you configure the sata ports properly in bios and create the array before trying to install them as a raid0? that usually leads to an easier install process.

[ThreeDee]

as stated , create the raid array first then install windows .. make sure all your hardware is up to the task .. relax mem timings maybe

could try using different sata ports to if you got a dud port (or cable or hdd or power connector/power supply)

can you install windows on each drive seperately without issue?

http://www.hardfolding.com/ftag1.php/mem/533.png (http://www.hardfolding.com?go=38&id=533&tm=33)
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[DarkStar02]

It's funny you mention x64 and RAID0. I just upgraded to a pair of Hitachi 7K250 (160GB) drives yesterday on an Abit NF4 SLI board. I downloaded the 6.67 RAID driver diskette, set up the appropriate options in CMOS setup, created the array and installed x64.

30 minutes later I was on the desktop, ready to go. I installed the 6.69 drivers to get network functionality, 84.21 x64 video drivers and patched x64 through windows update. Smooth as usual. ;) A few application installs and updates later I was finished and happy with the new speed.

Due to some limitations (4 IDE drives installed) and distances, I put both hard drives on the same cable. Even with that i'm getting 115MB/s (beginning) - 80MB/s (end) read speeds in HDTach, which is strange since it's a pair of ATA/100 drives on one cable and the PCI bus isn't overclocked. :confused:

I hate you. :(

You're putting your system drive on a raid0 array?

I'm thinking there are more problems here than you are aware of.

Like what?

as stated , create the raid array first then install windows .. make sure all your hardware is up to the task .. relax mem timings maybe

could try using different sata ports to if you got a dud port (or cable or hdd or power connector/power supply)

can you install windows on each drive seperately without issue?



I set everything to stock before installing windows. I've tried different power cables, but I've yet to try different cables/ports.

Yes, I can install windows on each drive seperately without issue.

so, is this an nforce4 board? did you configure the sata ports properly in bios and create the array before trying to install them as a raid0? that usually leads to an easier install process.


Yeah. I go into my bios, go to the BIOS genie options, enable SATA 1/2 and SATA 3/4 then I move to my integrated perifials (sp) option and enable RAID on SATA 1/2 (the drives I have them plugged into). I save and reboot and press F10 to go into the RAID setup menu. I put both the drives into a RAID array, set it to stripping, and put it at 32kb. I hit F7 to save the array and then hit B to set it as bootable (Although I have tried it without B also). Then I boot from CD and hit F6 then load the drivers when they're asked for but BSOD when I get to the main install windows screen.

[Unknown-One]

From what I've heard, the SATA controller (Controller's?) on NF4 boards can be finicky. I've seen numerous threads about them in the motherboard section, and most go unanswered for some reason.

I wonder, what is the best config for these things anyway?

[XOR != OR]

Like what?Your installation is dependant now on the relability of two drives, not just one. Further, you have to deal with the raid controller, which adds it's own problems to the mix.

One drive fails, you lose everything on that array. Unrecoverable by conventionable means, and very expensive otherwise.

[DarkStar02]

I'm going to break down and cry. :(

[ThreeDee]

unless your doing alot of video editing or something , raid0 isnt really worth it .. I ran it for awhile with 2 74gb raptors ..

if you are overclocking , then that can throw a wrench into a raid array

http://www.hardfolding.com/ftag1.php/mem/533.png (http://www.hardfolding.com?go=38&id=533&tm=33)
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[DarkStar02]

I really want RAID0 though :(

I sold a raptor drive to buy these babies knowing that they're faster in RAID0 than a single 36.7 GB raptor drive.

[hardwarephreak]

I have seen this quite a bit...usually it is fixed by going and getting the latest Forceware from nvidia, extracting it to a folder. Then make a new floppy disk with the SATA/SATA RAID drivers. If you have tried this already, make sure you are copying over the correct files.

And I would second the why RAID 0. I guess if you haven't seen too many hard drive failures (either yours or others), you may not see the problem...most people have to learn the hard way. Just do yourself a favor and put just your OS and programs on it, and keep all of your important stuff on a separate drive. And you might want to consider making yourself a Ghost image of your OS install seeing as how much you have already been through.

[HHunt]

I sold a raptor drive to buy these babies knowing that they're faster in RAID0 than a single 36.7 GB raptor drive.

That might be a bit optimistic, I'm afraid.

[ThreeDee]

when I did run a raid0 array .. I did as suggested already and just had windows and programs/games loaded on the array .. anything important I kept on a seperate 250gb sata drive ..ie , My Documents folder (which had game saves, pics, music ..etc) , iso back ups of games and programs for easy reinstall or playing games without my disc's ..and all that kind of stuff...

your 1 36gb 10g rpm raptor was prolly faster (or as fast with less overhead with also less storage capacity) as your 2 7g drives in raid0

..lol , dont mean to piddle on your parade and all , it's just that I've been there-done-that-got a couple T-shirts already, and for average joe users like me ... raid0 was more of a novelty and hassle in the long run (was fun and cool to me at the time tho :) )

http://www.hardfolding.com/ftag1.php/mem/533.png (http://www.hardfolding.com?go=38&id=533&tm=33)
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[DarkStar02]

It doesn't matter now. I just killed my motherboard! :'(

I loaded a HD killer program to write a bunch of 0's to it just to see if I even could, wondering if that was the problem. I loaded the program and two HDD's showed up even though I had a RAID setup going. One was 152 GB's and the other was 80 GB's. Funny, because I have only have two 80's. I deleted everything from the drives and filled 'em with zeros. It finished, I rebooted the computer. It gets to bios and freezes on the DMI Pool and BIOS backup screen. There is no text but there are the boxes where the text should be. I turn the computer off and restart it. Now I can't even post. I've tried everything- the 'safeboot' and clearing 'CMOS'. Reseated the power cords going to the motherboard and drives, unplugged and replugged the video card back in. Reset the power to my surge protector and turn my monitor on and off. I enabled the sound that usually gives me a beep on startup, but all of my fans just go full throttle (which they don't usually do) and there is no beep. SHEEET! I officially suck at life.

P.S. The two drives really do run faster in RAID0 than a single raptor. There was a HDD test done between the two and the hitachi drives won (barely).

[DarkStar02]

C'mon guys I need some sympathy posts here.
"It's okay Dark, you can always get a new motherboard. Come out of the closet and put the knife down."

"Darkstar, don't worry, i've done the same thing myself- 9 times!"
:(

[hardwarephreak]

Do yourself a favor and leave the comp alone for a day...you are just going to keep doin stuff that is going to make your problem worse becuase you aren't thinking clearly (at least by your posts).

The reason you were seeing what you were seeing what you were seeing 150GB plus the 80GB sounds like the RAID meta data was still there and causing some problems. I don't recommend using 3rd party programs to pseudo low level format a drive, the drive manufacturers generally have the software located on their websites.

Pull the board from the case, unplug all of the cables, pull the CMOS battery and just let it sit there...for awhile...not because you need to technically speaking, but because you need to mentally. Then go back to it, put in your CMOS battery, go down to one stick of RAM, and the video card...then try it from there, if it still gives you crap with nothing else connected...RMA that board. Unless you are not telling us something, it doesn't appear that you did anything to kill the board...of course I wasn't there, so I don't really know

[DarkStar02]

Do yourself a favor and leave the comp alone for a day...you are just going to keep doin stuff that is going to make your problem worse becuase you aren't thinking clearly (at least by your posts).

The reason you were seeing what you were seeing what you were seeing 150GB plus the 80GB sounds like the RAID meta data was still there and causing some problems. I don't recommend using 3rd party programs to pseudo low level format a drive, the drive manufacturers generally have the software located on their websites.

Pull the board from the case, unplug all of the cables, pull the CMOS battery and just let it sit there...for awhile...not because you need to technically speaking, but because you need to mentally. Then go back to it, put in your CMOS battery, go down to one stick of RAM, and the video card...then try it from there, if it still gives you crap with nothing else connected...RMA that board. Unless you are not telling us something, it doesn't appear that you did anything to kill the board...of course I wasn't there, so I don't really know

I already did a 2 hour battery out/capacitator drain. Held down insert on boot etc etc but still nothing, not even diagnostic beeps coming from the board.

Got my RMA number for the motherboard and for the HDD's just in case. Also considering buying a Kingwin Modular 3 600watt PSU just because I might be going SLI some time in the future and if I decide to I can just do the eraser mod on my mobo. I'm sure glad I didn't try it earlier and void my warranty!

[Lord of Shadows]

Is it really jamming or is it just not able to load the operating system? I would completely unplug the hds and try booting to a floppy. If it boots, then partition and format the drives (leave raid alone for now) so they arent so screwed up and go on from there. If it doesnt boot from the floppy, proceed to debug the motherboard cause you've gone and done something else. ;o)

[DarkStar02]

Is it really jamming or is it just not able to load the operating system? I would completely unplug the hds and try booting to a floppy. If it boots, then partition and format the drives (leave raid alone for now) so they arent so screwed up and go on from there. If it doesnt boot from the floppy, proceed to debug the motherboard cause you've gone and done something else. ;o)

I can't even access bios. No picture at all. I got my RMA number and was hoping to ship it out today but I don't think that's going to happen. :(

[HHunt]

On the positive side, you have a fairly well defined problem with a clear solution, now.
Even if getting a replacement can be a mess, take a long time, or cost a bit, it still makes me happy when I can single out something that will help.
In other words, cheer up, a dead MB is an uncomplicated problem. :)