Death of the Space Combat Sim?

[Spare-Flair]

Growing up, my favorite genre was also the space sim, especially a series like Wing Commander. My pilthy 286 could never dream of running Wing Commander so I sneaked to my friend's house and play that game for hours there, humourously, spending more time in the in-game space simulator in the Tiger's Claw cafeteria than actually on sorties.

Throughout the 1990s, there was a never ending parade of fantastic Wing Commander games, I had the skill of leading my target, getting missle locks, etc. perfectly. There was also a great complement of Lucasarts games like X-Wing and Tie Fighter.

Then there was the great Descent Freespace, and finally, Freespace 2 which is really, the last good space sim ever made. But what the hell? That was Space Combat Game of the Year 1999!!!

Yes, 6 years ago. And now there has been nothing ever since. We just get mindless FPS clone after FPS clone and I think it's a horrible shame, with this amazing hardware that we have now, that we can't apply any of this graphical power to a space simulator.

Why has the genre completely died out? Is there no hope? Nothing on the horizon? I want to see antialiased ships. I want to see incredible shader effects as I fly through a nebula or the atmosphere of a planet. I want to see modern particle effects and bump mapping as I fly into intense space combat with hundreds of fighters and giant warships and carriers. I want to see HDR lighting as I accidently fly in the direction of a sun and get momentarily blinded.

Come on! Does the first person shooter have to be the only platform where we ever get to flex the muscles of all the hardware we spend our hard-earned money on? Can't game companies get creative or innovative again? Where is Wing Commander 6? Oh...that's right, EA destroyed the franchise and swept it under the carpet. Where is Freespace 2? Oh yeah, Interplay is bankrupt. These were such amazing games and yet, they don't seem to recieve any support, from either the developers or fans anymore. Am I the only one left? Are all our force feedback joysticks with 8-way hats just collecting dust under our desks?

[Canlador]

I've got the same gripe. The closest thing we've got not to a space combat sim is SWG: Jump to Lightspeed. It's ok as far as combat sims go, the graphics are ok. I know that there is a really nice open source C++ 3D engine (http://www.OGRE3D.org) that could make one. I started playing around and got a ship to fly with a joystick, shoot spheres, and had AI that could intercept...but I quickly ran out of time.

It was actually pretty easy. Anyone with a little knowledge of C++, Objects, and logic could write a simple space combat sim. The hard part is the shaders and AI IMO. The hardest part about getting started (least when I worked with it) was that the documentation sucked.

Just an idea.

[Ruffy]

been dead for awhile
Freelancer was great but felt lacking

I miss the old Xwing/tie Fighter/wing commander games

I gotta try The ones that were released within the past few years (X2, Nexus I think)

[Ivo]

Wing Commander :D those were the days

Well, i hope X3 Reunion will spark things up for me.
Theres a trailer of that game about 30 mb, the graphics are awasome.
Go check it out, maybe youll like it :D.

[Spare-Flair]

While space strategy is good (Homeworld - another fantastic game that we'll sadly never see again), X2, X3, and Nexus are not space-combat sims and they just don't have the sim immersiveness.

[mhenley]

I'll agree with Ruffy that Freelancer was lacking, and was very redundant... but for the first 2 or 3 hours of playing it, it was pretty good. One of those games that Microsoft Studios released that started out with great potential (so that the reviewers would give it relatively high marks) and then quickly went down the toilet after a while.

Its got some decent detail when it comes to equipping your ship, such as different weapons having different firing rate and projectile speed, pretty good spacial details and shading, and will allow you to enjoy some (surprisingly) good graphics while leading the reticle ahead of your target..... to a point.......... literally, they took half the fun out of it by giving you a secondary reticle so that there isn't much of any skill required.

Missions is where this game falls short. There's 2 basic types of missions: Go to location X and kill these guys, or go to location X and retrieve this. The story driven missions are progressive, and challenging. The point in which I stopped playing was when I had to try and punch through several blockades and escape from a pursuing faction.

If you can find a copy of Freelancer in a bargain bin, or used, you might want to consider it, but you will ultimately be disappointed.... But its space combat, with better graphics than those unforgettable classics of the past.


You're right though. Any game company could make a killing if they produced a well-made single player space combat sim with multiplayer capability.

[dano]

http://www.fl-tw.com/Infinity/

Ambitious? hell yeah.

Dano.

[Stiler]

I've long for a new space sim.

A space sim where you are actually a character in the universe and not your "spaceship."

I want to actually enter a planet's atmosphere and have to make it through and then find a place to land on the planet, and explore, etc. Then head back off into the great big sky.

I want to be able to freely move around within my "ship" while i'm flying, have a first person view where i'm flying from within the cockpit, like most jet sims offer. Be able to set it to autopilot and go back to the hanger and check my supplies and do other things while the ship is still heading it's course. Then the alarm sounds and I rush back tot he pilot seat to find that someone is tailing me, so I take it back to manual and try to either outrun them if I can't take them or fight.

I want my actions to mean something, not simple "good/bad" like kotor/fable, but actions that mean somethin to the people in a way that affects them more individually. If I blow up bob's ship his brother might come after me to seek revenge, however if I join bob for a raid on an outpost his brother might help me in defending me when he runs into an attack i'm on because he know's I helped bob a while back. Have factions to join with reputations to different ones, among many other aspects like that.

If I destroy an entire imperial fleet and take over huge battleships and hire crews to man them and have my own armada of ships, I want people to re-act to the news and my actions, and not merely be cardboard cutouts, "oh hello again joe, i'm sorry but those tps reports aren't done, if you don't get them done you're going to find yourself full of lead."

"I took over an entire imperial armada...and you are wanting me to do tps reports? I Could blow this entire planet up if I wanted to..."

I want to customize and outfit my ship, from different tech things, such as radar jammers, cloaking devices, EMP's, etc. Aswell as costmetically customize it.

I want to be able to go outside , in space, myself with a space suit. Be able to walk around on the outside (and have to to repair certain things) or do other things.

Imagine having a "stealth" ship, you sneak up to another ship to highjack it, you launch outside of your ship and then attach yourself to the other ship and find a way to get inside, then you fight them/take the ship over and you can either use it, sell it, salvage parts/cargo , whatever you want.

I want AI that's smart and intelligent, one that wants to live. Imagine being able to go up to a carrier ship, strategically target it's gun turrets and take them out. Then if you don't act quickly they send a message for help, however before they can you can jam the signal (if you have the equipment to do so) and then you can get the commander on your speaker and demand they jettision their cargo out or you're going to blow a hole in their hull and let them all die, so they do so (if they believe you).

[zacas]

i would like to see another freespace/wing commander also ...

[Fistandantilis]

I've long for a new space sim.

A space sim where you are actually a character in the universe and not your "spaceship."

I want to actually enter a planet's atmosphere and have to make it through and then find a place to land on the planet, and explore, etc. Then head back off into the great big sky.

I want to be able to freely move around within my "ship" while i'm flying, have a first person view where i'm flying from within the cockpit, like most jet sims offer. Be able to set it to autopilot and go back to the hanger and check my supplies and do other things while the ship is still heading it's course. Then the alarm sounds and I rush back tot he pilot seat to find that someone is tailing me, so I take it back to manual and try to either outrun them if I can't take them or fight.

I want my actions to mean something, not simple "good/bad" like kotor/fable, but actions that mean somethin to the people in a way that affects them more individually. If I blow up bob's ship his brother might come after me to seek revenge, however if I join bob for a raid on an outpost his brother might help me in defending me when he runs into an attack i'm on because he know's I helped bob a while back. Have factions to join with reputations to different ones, among many other aspects like that.

If I destroy an entire imperial fleet and take over huge battleships and hire crews to man them and have my own armada of ships, I want people to re-act to the news and my actions, and not merely be cardboard cutouts, "oh hello again joe, i'm sorry but those tps reports aren't done, if you don't get them done you're going to find yourself full of lead."

"I took over an entire imperial armada...and you are wanting me to do tps reports? I Could blow this entire planet up if I wanted to..."

I want to customize and outfit my ship, from different tech things, such as radar jammers, cloaking devices, EMP's, etc. Aswell as costmetically customize it.

I want to be able to go outside , in space, myself with a space suit. Be able to walk around on the outside (and have to to repair certain things) or do other things.

Imagine having a "stealth" ship, you sneak up to another ship to highjack it, you launch outside of your ship and then attach yourself to the other ship and find a way to get inside, then you fight them/take the ship over and you can either use it, sell it, salvage parts/cargo , whatever you want.

I want AI that's smart and intelligent, one that wants to live. Imagine being able to go up to a carrier ship, strategically target it's gun turrets and take them out. Then if you don't act quickly they send a message for help, however before they can you can jam the signal (if you have the equipment to do so) and then you can get the commander on your speaker and demand they jettision their cargo out or you're going to blow a hole in their hull and let them all die, so they do so (if they believe you).

Kinda like a GTA type game, You got good ideas, when are you going to start coding this game?

[Justin]

I would love for another round of wing commander / xwing / tie fighter /xwing vs tie fighter / freespace.

Even if it is just remakes with better graphics/multiplayer it would be nice to play some of these games with current systems being used fully.

[erf]

the nerds come out at night! the nerds come out at night! :p

[Jesus_Faction]

tie fighter was such a great game at the time

i remember making my own missions and stuff for it
such a good time

[KillerMonkey]

I've long for a new space sim.

A space sim where you are actually a character in the universe and not your "spaceship."

I want to actually enter a planet's atmosphere and have to make it through and then find a place to land on the planet, and explore, etc. Then head back off into the great big sky.

I want to be able to freely move around within my "ship" while i'm flying, have a first person view where i'm flying from within the cockpit, like most jet sims offer. Be able to set it to autopilot and go back to the hanger and check my supplies and do other things while the ship is still heading it's course. Then the alarm sounds and I rush back tot he pilot seat to find that someone is tailing me, so I take it back to manual and try to either outrun them if I can't take them or fight.

I want my actions to mean something, not simple "good/bad" like kotor/fable, but actions that mean somethin to the people in a way that affects them more individually. If I blow up bob's ship his brother might come after me to seek revenge, however if I join bob for a raid on an outpost his brother might help me in defending me when he runs into an attack i'm on because he know's I helped bob a while back. Have factions to join with reputations to different ones, among many other aspects like that.

If I destroy an entire imperial fleet and take over huge battleships and hire crews to man them and have my own armada of ships, I want people to re-act to the news and my actions, and not merely be cardboard cutouts, "oh hello again joe, i'm sorry but those tps reports aren't done, if you don't get them done you're going to find yourself full of lead."

"I took over an entire imperial armada...and you are wanting me to do tps reports? I Could blow this entire planet up if I wanted to..."

I want to customize and outfit my ship, from different tech things, such as radar jammers, cloaking devices, EMP's, etc. Aswell as costmetically customize it.

I want to be able to go outside , in space, myself with a space suit. Be able to walk around on the outside (and have to to repair certain things) or do other things.

Imagine having a "stealth" ship, you sneak up to another ship to highjack it, you launch outside of your ship and then attach yourself to the other ship and find a way to get inside, then you fight them/take the ship over and you can either use it, sell it, salvage parts/cargo , whatever you want.

I want AI that's smart and intelligent, one that wants to live. Imagine being able to go up to a carrier ship, strategically target it's gun turrets and take them out. Then if you don't act quickly they send a message for help, however before they can you can jam the signal (if you have the equipment to do so) and then you can get the commander on your speaker and demand they jettision their cargo out or you're going to blow a hole in their hull and let them all die, so they do so (if they believe you).

Such a game would, imo, be very near the Holy Grail of gaming. I imagine it would be a little hard to code, though.
:p

[Craftish]

Almost sounds like you're describing a souped up version of Privateer. God that game was great. I was really disappointed by the hokey live action sequences and frustrating gameplay of Privateer 2, though.

[Ashtaka]

Such a game would, imo, be very near the Holy Grail of gaming. I imagine it would be a little hard to code, though.
:p

The Derek Smart Battle Cruiser games have this mindset...

[EndersGame]

The space sims still exist my friend.. mind you not in joystick fasion....

But if you want some good space sims try Indpendance War 2: Edge of Chaos

If you are looking for something "recent" then by all means try Nexus: The Jupiter Incident.. for some AMAZING SPACE BATTLES, especially when you start throwing long range missles at each other, and the explosions that WHITE the entire screen.. simply amazing...

Also try "Hegemonia: Legions of Iron"

Space sims are there, they just dont get hyped, or promoted, so you have to "stumble" onto them.

If anything please buy Nexus, youll be damn glad you did.

[CatsGoMoo]

I really miss Privateer. I found my old copy of that the other day. I remember opening the box and seeing FOURTEEN 3.5" floppy disks, and going "man, I hope I have the hard drive space for this. I might have to delete commander keen or wolfenstein 3d for a while."

[Ruffy]

I'll agree with Ruffy that Freelancer was lacking, and was very redundant... but for the first 2 or 3 hours of playing it, it was pretty good. One of those games that Microsoft Studios released that started out with great potential (so that the reviewers would give it relatively high marks) and then quickly went down the toilet after a while.

Its got some decent detail when it comes to equipping your ship, such as different weapons having different firing rate and projectile speed, pretty good spacial details and shading, and will allow you to enjoy some (surprisingly) good graphics while leading the reticle ahead of your target..... to a point.......... literally, they took half the fun out of it by giving you a secondary reticle so that there isn't much of any skill required.

Missions is where this game falls short. There's 2 basic types of missions: Go to location X and kill these guys, or go to location X and retrieve this. The story driven missions are progressive, and challenging. The point in which I stopped playing was when I had to try and punch through several blockades and escape from a pursuing faction.

If you can find a copy of Freelancer in a bargain bin, or used, you might want to consider it, but you will ultimately be disappointed.... But its space combat, with better graphics than those unforgettable classics of the past.


You're right though. Any game company could make a killing if they produced a well-made single player space combat sim with multiplayer capability.


Dude if you missed out on the nomads you missed out on ALOT. The last few levels were INSANE and beautiful

[Bop]

Maybe there is a possibility of a Serenity game seeing as it is recent and a damn good movie... get working publishers/devs!

[adam7488]

http://www.fl-tw.com/Infinity/

Ambitious? hell yeah.

Dano.

That = Awesome

[Jeriko_Cherry]

If you can find it, the Rebalance Mod for Freelancer is exceptional. It takes Freelancer and makes it a much better game. They add what seems like 100's of new ships (ships from Homeworld, Star Trek, Star Wars, Babylon 5, BSG, and many other from Sci-fi games, movies, and tv shows). They give you more wepaons, ship parts, and planet systems (with planets that spin). They even make the enemy AI better as they use their Shield and Nano stuff regularly in battle. Really, if you can find Rebalance 3.4 or 3.5beta it makes Freelancer a damn fun space sim.

[Attean]

I've long for a new space sim.

A space sim where you are actually a character in the universe and not your "spaceship."

I want to actually enter a planet's atmosphere and have to make it through and then find a place to land on the planet, and explore, etc. Then head back off into the great big sky.

I want to be able to freely move around within my "ship" while i'm flying, have a first person view where i'm flying from within the cockpit, like most jet sims offer. Be able to set it to autopilot and go back to the hanger and check my supplies and do other things while the ship is still heading it's course. Then the alarm sounds and I rush back tot he pilot seat to find that someone is tailing me, so I take it back to manual and try to either outrun them if I can't take them or fight.

I want my actions to mean something, not simple "good/bad" like kotor/fable, but actions that mean somethin to the people in a way that affects them more individually. If I blow up bob's ship his brother might come after me to seek revenge, however if I join bob for a raid on an outpost his brother might help me in defending me when he runs into an attack i'm on because he know's I helped bob a while back. Have factions to join with reputations to different ones, among many other aspects like that.

If I destroy an entire imperial fleet and take over huge battleships and hire crews to man them and have my own armada of ships, I want people to re-act to the news and my actions, and not merely be cardboard cutouts, "oh hello again joe, i'm sorry but those tps reports aren't done, if you don't get them done you're going to find yourself full of lead."

"I took over an entire imperial armada...and you are wanting me to do tps reports? I Could blow this entire planet up if I wanted to..."

I want to customize and outfit my ship, from different tech things, such as radar jammers, cloaking devices, EMP's, etc. Aswell as costmetically customize it.

I want to be able to go outside , in space, myself with a space suit. Be able to walk around on the outside (and have to to repair certain things) or do other things.

Imagine having a "stealth" ship, you sneak up to another ship to highjack it, you launch outside of your ship and then attach yourself to the other ship and find a way to get inside, then you fight them/take the ship over and you can either use it, sell it, salvage parts/cargo , whatever you want.

I want AI that's smart and intelligent, one that wants to live. Imagine being able to go up to a carrier ship, strategically target it's gun turrets and take them out. Then if you don't act quickly they send a message for help, however before they can you can jam the signal (if you have the equipment to do so) and then you can get the commander on your speaker and demand they jettision their cargo out or you're going to blow a hole in their hull and let them all die, so they do so (if they believe you).

To tell you the truth I think everyone in the world has had this idea. A space sim "where you can do anything" said from behind starry eyes. It still never fails to capture my imagination, however.
:p I have actually made a few attempts to develop this but it's gone on the back burner until I get some AI algorithms that mimic real people. Ship mates are a must. Reactionary enemies are a must. It would be nice to set up ecosystems and communities of people based on these same procedures. The tech just isn't there now, however, unless you could figure out a way of faking it. (for example, giving writers control of their characters) But f that, I want to make the best game ever made which would include a living, breathing galaxy.

Oblivion is interesting in what they are trying to do with radiant AI.

[JRPereira]

I just miss tie fighter. If they did a nice graphic update on that and left the gameplay alone, I'd be in heaven.

[Spare-Flair]

But you see, we have things like World of Warcraft, we have GTA, we have Star Wars Galaxies, and we certainly had Privateer like 12 years ago. We also have amazing FPS games that take place inside places that could very well be ships.

I don't see any reason why this isn't possible in this day and age, the problem is that nobody will build it because all the creative developers have been bought up and liquidated by the giant publishers like EA, Ubisoft, and Vivendi and they don't see it profitable to make a space sim. Origin is gone, Interplay is gone, Volition is dead in the water, Relic Entertainment is bought out, etc. and all the liscenses are all over the place and archived. They don't see space-sims as profitable anymore.

Take a look at the Battle of Proxycon sequence in 3DMark03. Wouldn't it be amazing if you were onboard you ship when a giant battle broke out and you had to fight your way through your ship, fighting off intruders FPS style while trying to get to the hanger? Then somehow launching off in your craft and it becomes a space-combat sim? Or perhaps you fight your way to the bridge and take over as commander of the fleet and it becomes a space-strategy interface?

I think people would love just exploring a completely interactive starship or carrier, with wingmen, shipmates, real plots, etc. as well as vibrant planets, and varied gameplay. I'd love to just sit in a shuttle or a transport and stare out the window as it flies around a fleet in orbit or lands on a planet, etc.

Or you can make it with RPG elements as well, like KOTOR, and you can create a character that'll either become an ace pilot in the military, a fleet strategist, or a bounty hunter/privateer, etc.

It'd be amazing if somebody could create something like a wikipedia game development type atmosphere, where hundreds of people could just contribute to a project.

Again, the problem goes back to the publishers, they just don't see anything like this as being profitable anymore. Freespace and Homeworld weren't very commercially successful, so all the money goes into your standard crate-fest FPS games these days.

[yhamez]

I've been hoping for a fresh breath in the space sim genre for far too long. I see longing for new installments of WC or SW series pretty often...I think there's at least enough fanbase for some sort of new project.

It's sad to think that I've seen more adventure games than space sims in the past 5 years (another great genre with titles far and in between).

[Sly]

Best gameplay = X-Wing and Tie Fighter.

@Spare-Flair
Sounds like BattleField in space :)

I hope they release another good space sim soon. These flight sims are good and all but i have this tendency to hit the ground :p

[Spare-Flair]

Best gameplay = X-Wing and Tie Fighter.

@Spare-Flair
Sounds like BattleField in space :)

I hope they release another good space sim soon. These flight sims are good and all but i have this tendency to hit the ground :p

We already have Battlfield in space, it's Star Wars: Battlefront and it's boring :) I really miss the old story/character elements of the old combat sims, especially Wing Commander.

[Shakezilla]

Stiller: Your idea sounds a bit like Spore, a game where you can do pretty much anything, I have been waiting all my life for a game like that.

A game that can change completly as you play it and reacts to what you do.

[eetoi]

I got Wing Commander for GBA last year :D Maneuvering is hard as hell with the little 4 direction gamepad, I gave up... Maybe that's why it was in the bargain bin. Anyone ever played Darklight Conflict? It was made for Windows 95, it gets all screwy when I try to install it on my Win2k system *sigh* I used to play that game for hours and hours...

[Erasmus354]

Stiler : While I would kill for a game like you describe, you know the old addage "jack of all trades, master of none". If you make a game that does everything it will most likely do none of them well, which would make for an overall piss-poor game. I mean it takes 3 years at best to make a good game, you are talking about combining 3 or 4 or more different games into one. So who is willing to go through a 12 year development process?? Certainly no developer dumping money into it.

[GORANKAR]

I got Wing Commander for GBA last year :D Maneuvering is hard as hell with the little 4 direction gamepad, I gave up... Maybe that's why it was in the bargain bin. Anyone ever played Darklight Conflict? It was made for Windows 95, it gets all screwy when I try to install it on my Win2k system *sigh* I used to play that game for hours and hours...

I loved darklight conflict.. And actualy it is a DOS game.. I have gotten it to work with DOSbox on my xp system.. I even had a mod of sorts for it, that allowed you play without that annoying oval screen.. Can't find the mod now though.. It had very realistic spaceflight physics compared to many titles, including the newer ones..

Multiplayer was ok too, but it was pretty much just deathmatch style of play so it got old quick..

[versello]

I'm drooling all over this game: X3 Reunion (http://www.egosoft.com/games/x3/screenshots_en.php)

[TranquilRed]

I miss Earth and Beyond an space-aged MMORPG where you inherit a race and create your own spaceship, aquiring skills and weapons and hull upgrades as you progress in levels. It was the very first MMO I played and it got me hooked. All E&B servers are long-since shut down, very sad, really.

[Allaxul]

I also have high hopes for X3. I tried to get into X2 but the controls and physics were just too bad for me to be able to enjoy it. The last really excellent space sim I've played was Independence War II. It's very open ended with decent graphics and wonderful controls. If you haven't tried it yet I highly recommend it.

[Spare-Flair]

Hmm, I'm a little disappointed that X3 seems to have removed the actual cockpit from your view, it's more of only a GUI like Wing Commander 4.

I actually liked seeing the cockpit there, it makes it more immersive but I suppose it keeps ugly cockpits struts out of the way of the pretty visuals in X3 :)

I never played X2 much, do I need to play X and X2 to enjoy X3?

[Masume]

http://www.freeallegiance.org/

Nuff said.

Allegiance is a team-oriented online multiplayer space combat simulation with real-time strategy (RTS) elements. It could be described as a much-improved "X-Wing vs. Tie-Fighter." Whereas most multiplayer online games have a very simplistic concept of teamwork, if any, Allegiance distinguishes itself by having a strategy interface that demands teamwork in order to accomplish anything. Despite all these advancements, Allegiance still works great on a Pentium 2 computer with a 56k modem.


Allegiance can be played exclusively on LAN or internet servers. While it offers a multitude of gameplay modes with up to six teams, by far the most popular is the two-team conquest mode. In this mode, each team has a designated commander who oversees the asteroid mining operation, invests in the tech tree, buys and constructs new bases and commands the team in a semi-RTS like fashion from an overhead 3D map. The gameplay area is several sectors of space filled with asteroids on which the bases are built. There are roughly five tech-trees to pursue, resulting in a vast variety of different approaches to winning the game, including but not limited to: behind-enemy-lines teleport attacks, fighter raids, bombing, capturing enemy bases, stealth attacks and big capital ships. Typical games consist of 20 to 30 players per side, but big games can support up to 200 players simultaneously.

Allegiance was released in 2000 by Microsoft. Unfortunately, it was let down by some serious bugs that took too long to iron out, a pay-per-month scheme, and lack of developer support and marketing. The game used to be hosted as part of Microsoft's Zone gaming service, but was eventually abandoned. Not to be defeated, a group of independent Allegiance players spearheaded the effort to keep the game alive and running. What eventually became the Free Allegiance Organization (FAO) kept the game operating by hosting its own lobby and game servers and by writing their own bug fixes for the game. In February 2004, Microsoft released the source code for Allegiance, and cited the devotion of its hard-core players for doing so. Now at last the game is truely free, the bugs that crippled the initial release have been fixed, and the game development is continued by the community. It still remains the best team-oriented multiplayer action/sim game on the internet.

[EnderXC]

Working off the ideas from above, I think that anyone that has used the orbiter sim (http://www.orbitersim.com) would agree that a space sim that wanted to be real would have to mimic real phyics and obital mechanics, although a easy mode for a point to point nav would need to be added for a learning curve.

I dislike the idea of a space sim that did not simulate space, combat in orbit would be like nothing else, instead of simply zooming around like a aircraft in the atmosphere, you could be making burns to out-manuver and make the kill. I understand for some this would be dauting but like I said maybe an easy mode/autopilot could be included.

Really if one wants to create a large world then starting with just one or two close planets would be nice, I think that would avoid the "jack of all trades, master of none" problem by allowing detail to be spent on only a few planets.

On a more realilistic approach :p , a Homeworld 3 would rock, I loved that series.

[Stiler]

Stiler : While I would kill for a game like you describe, you know the old addage "jack of all trades, master of none". If you make a game that does everything it will most likely do none of them well, which would make for an overall piss-poor game. I mean it takes 3 years at best to make a good game, you are talking about combining 3 or 4 or more different games into one. So who is willing to go through a 12 year development process?? Certainly no developer dumping money into it.

IMO, what I described is pretty much like RPG's on a scale of the TES or Gothic series, but in space instead of on a single world/place.

I think it could be done, and no where near taking 12 years to do, but the problem is publishers who would want to fund such a project, that imo would have the potential to revive the space genre and sell well, but also if not done good, would be another drop in the bucket.

[jrbryner]

Eve: Online (http://www.eve-online.com) is good space sim MMORPG. Played it for about a year and a half. It reminded me of the old Freelancer series somewhat. Awesome graphics also.

[Digital Terror]

What I would love to see is a new space sim along the lines of Freespace, with good multiplayer online support...but I will *NOT* touch a MMO type game with monthly fees.

Private multiplayer servers like Freelancer.

To those talking about the rebalance mod, you can find that at lancersreactor.com
Another good mod you can get there is Solarus. Latest update to that was about a week ago, and is an ongoing project. I believe Solarus used the rebalance mod as a base and went from there.

[PopeKevinI]

Maybe there is a possibility of a Serenity game seeing as it is recent and a damn good movie... get working publishers/devs!

Haven't seen the movie, but I know from the show that:

1) The Serenity doesn't have guns

2) There doesn't seem to be a lot of space combat in the Firefly/Serenity universe.

[PopeKevinI]

I'll also add here, as I have before, that there's a little-known game called "Babylon 5: I've Found Her" that never finished development but does exist as a demo (at least, that's how I understand it). It's a GREAT space combat sim, but with a bit of a learning curve.

The physics are fairly realistic, so it's easy to overshoot your target by tens or hundreds of kilometers if you aren't careful. I once cruised almost 500 km past an asteroid I was doing practice runs on (goofing around) just trying to reverse the amount of inertia I'd built up. It took several minutes to get back :eek:

[Worminater]

if they released a new X-Wing vs TIE Fighter game i would def pick it up. I used to love the old ones...

[jstnomega]

Is the Earth series any good?

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/moonproject/similar.html?mode=universe

[Stiler]

Haven't seen the movie, but I know from the show that:

1) The Serenity doesn't have guns

2) There doesn't seem to be a lot of space combat in the Firefly/Serenity universe.

You should see the movie :p.

Space combat exists, and serenity has a type of turret on the top of the ship that Jayne uses in the movie for combat.

There's a fairly good sized space battle in the movie :).

[cuemasterfl]

Does anyone remember Frontier? It was the follow up to Elite, and allowed you to fly around in space, do battle, dock at Spacestations, fly down to and around planet's surfaces, fly back up to space. You had total freedom to do what you wanted. It was full of bugs which is what ultimately killed it. If this was redone properly today, and had multiplayer, it would be fantastic.

[Worminater]

the more i think about it; the more badass a game like xwing vs tiefighter would be done with high end gfx now...

In space you have black, with stars and such as a backdrop for the majority of the game, with ships flying around that are small and tiny for the majority of the gameplay as you twist and dogfight with them


with modern tech; you could give massive detail to those tiny ships because thers very little landscape processing that needs to be done....

Couidl be frickin sweet methinks...

[Digital Terror]

In space you have black, with stars and such as a backdrop for the majority of the game, with ships flying around that are small and tiny for the majority of the gameplay as you twist and dogfight with them


That's my biggest complaint about the majority of space combat games that have been produced lately. Space is not ultra-colorful like depicted in Freelancer. Space does not have electrical (or whatever) storms every 5k (SWG: Jump to Lightspeed). I would love to see another Freespace, or even a sequel to Freelancer, but for God's sake, DON'T SCREW WITH COLORFUL SPACE BACKGROUNDS! I want to fly through SPACE, not the inside of some demented artist's idea of what space should look like! Empty blackness with glittering stars everywhere!

[ThreeDee]

Descent IV


"..I'd buy that for a dollar"




..or maybe even two ...or three ...or ....or..

I enjoyed Descent 3 ..I never finished the game and really dont know why .. :confused:

[Digital Terror]

I never actually manged to get ahold of Descent 3, didn't have the system for it when it came out.

Never finished D1 or D2 either, I bought them as a compilation pack and my system fried before I could, then I moved, etc and so on....short of it is I never did get around to trying to reinstall them until recently, and my current system won't handle D1 at all. Too fast. Give you motion sickness in 10 seconds watching the way my ship bounces like mad in D1 now :p

[HHunt]

I hope you're all aware that
1) Freespace 2 was opensourced (http://scp.indiegames.us/content.php?content.4), and
2) that due to a very unusual EULA, you're free to download a legal copy of the original game?

That doesn't mean that I don't want Freespace 3 like little else.
A new Elite, or a better Freelancer 2, or something else would be nice, but FS3 ... *sigh*.

[TheBluePill]

Descent 4 would be such a hit now.. D3 was soooooooo fun in multiplayer, battling it out on the web through the tunnels. Now that there are so many online gamers it would surley be a thrill.

I really do miss the Space Combat sim genre. Freelancer was so very good it got my blood pumping again for a long gone genre. I do wish it had joystick support, but I can live without it. There is a thriving community of on-line freelancer teams out there at http://www.lancersreactor.com/t/ .

[CatsGoMoo]

You should see the movie :p.

Space combat exists, and serenity has a type of turret on the top of the ship that Jayne uses in the movie for combat.

There's a fairly good sized space battle in the movie :).


They pulled the turret out from the wreckage in a certain place to mount it on the ship (not giving any more away so as not to spoil things).

[Defective]

I hope you're all aware that
1) Freespace 2 was opensourced (http://scp.indiegames.us/content.php?content.4), and
2) that due to a very unusual EULA, you're free to download a legal copy of the original game?

That doesn't mean that I don't want Freespace 3 like little else.
A new Elite, or a better Freelancer 2, or something else would be nice, but FS3 ... *sigh*.

Thank you for this post! I am downloading that tonight!

[Nasty_Savage]

I hope you're all aware that
1) Freespace 2 was opensourced (http://scp.indiegames.us/content.php?content.4), and
2) that due to a very unusual EULA, you're free to download a legal copy of the original game?

That doesn't mean that I don't want Freespace 3 like little else.
A new Elite, or a better Freelancer 2, or something else would be nice, but FS3 ... *sigh*.

Intriquing. I never played FP2...does this require the original installation? Because I can't seem to install it :confused:

[Defective]

Intriquing. I never played FP2...does this require the original installation? Because I can't seem to install it :confused:

Read the How To, that they have. They tell you where you can download the original game, legally, for free.

You are in for a treat if you have never played the game before. It is, bar none, the best space combat sim I have every played.

[HHunt]

Intriquing. I never played FP2...does this require the original installation? Because I can't seem to install it :confused:

Yes, it does. It's an overlay of sorts. However, read this (http://scp.indiegames.us/e107_plugins/custompages/scpinstallation.php). Note that it's perfectly legal. :)

[Nasty_Savage]

Woo, in 12 hours when the download is complete I'll try it :rolleyes: (lol at 7KB /ps) :eek:

[Digital Viper-X-]

I miss wing commander =( It was the first game i played on my first PC XD Wing Commander 2 and then STrike Commander (air plane though not space)

[mngl1200]

my solution was to reinstall Tachyon: The Fringe

[Spare-Flair]

Is the Earth series any good?

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/moonproject/similar.html?mode=universe

It's not bad, but it's more of a ground-combat game. It's like Ground Control I and II.

[Spare-Flair]

That's my biggest complaint about the majority of space combat games that have been produced lately. Space is not ultra-colorful like depicted in Freelancer. Space does not have electrical (or whatever) storms every 5k (SWG: Jump to Lightspeed). I would love to see another Freespace, or even a sequel to Freelancer, but for God's sake, DON'T SCREW WITH COLORFUL SPACE BACKGROUNDS! I want to fly through SPACE, not the inside of some demented artist's idea of what space should look like! Empty blackness with glittering stars everywhere!

You know, somehow they end up having every battle in the vicinity of a nebula lol.

[Jeriko_Cherry]

my solution was to reinstall Tachyon: The Fringe

Can you get it to work with Win2k/XP? I love that game but I remember having trouble installing it after upgrading from 98se.

Bruce Campbell = lord and savior.

[PopeKevinI]

You know, somehow they end up having every battle in the vicinity of a nebula lol.

Few reasons for that:

-Eye candy
-Visibility...ships that disappear against black space will stand out against a nebula
-Cheap way to introduce haze in space.

Let's face it...your average consumer isn't going to like realistic space combat. Space gives you no perspective, affords your enemies lots of ways to visually disappear, and combat can occur at any range with no atmosphere to interfere with balistics.

In real space, you could build a capital ship that looks just like a fighter, and it could be mistake for one visually because there is no frame of reference, no perspective to stop you from thinking otherwise. You'd be forced to rely heavily on sensors and instruments for navigation and tracking enemies, because the blackness of space would swallow a small craft if it didn't have a nearby star to illuminate it at the right angle. Energy weapons wouldn't disipate nearly as fast as typically portrayed, and some would have effective ranges of hundreds or thousands of km. Projectiles would go on forever...even missiles would stay on their last vector once they exhausted their fuel.

[HHunt]

Woo, in 12 hours when the download is complete I'll try it :rolleyes: (lol at 7KB /ps) :eek:

I recently mailed those CDs to a poor guy on dialup. :D
(The bandwidth is nice, but the latency could be better.)

[-Sean Casey]

Projectiles would go on forever...even missiles would stay on their last vector once they exhausted their fuel.

Hey these all make for some interesting friendly fire scenarios!

Personally I would love a space combat SIM with the technical depth of a game like Falcon 4.0. Many people would not find it as enjoyable, but given that combat would need to take place near orbit I could think it would be fun to add in space craft with no ability to enter a planets atmosphere. It would sure add an extra thing to think about.

The trick to make the physics managable would be to use real physics, but take the players imput and let the game make the players ship apply thrust and rotation as needed to create the result the player anticipated.

But this game would need a story to it. Perhaps some very minor and insignificant FPS elements. Maybe do like WC-1 where you go the barracks to save your game.

[Digital Terror]

Few reasons for that:

-Eye candy
-Visibility...ships that disappear against black space will stand out against a nebula
-Cheap way to introduce haze in space.

Let's face it...your average consumer isn't going to like realistic space combat. Space gives you no perspective, affords your enemies lots of ways to visually disappear, and combat can occur at any range with no atmosphere to interfere with balistics.

In real space, you could build a capital ship that looks just like a fighter, and it could be mistake for one visually because there is no frame of reference, no perspective to stop you from thinking otherwise. You'd be forced to rely heavily on sensors and instruments for navigation and tracking enemies, because the blackness of space would swallow a small craft if it didn't have a nearby star to illuminate it at the right angle. Energy weapons wouldn't disipate nearly as fast as typically portrayed, and some would have effective ranges of hundreds or thousands of km. Projectiles would go on forever...even missiles would stay on their last vector once they exhausted their fuel.

Thing is, if I remember right, the games that are held up as the epitome of all space shooter sims *DID* go with primarily all the action taking place in the deep black darkness of space. Freespace 1, Wing Commander (don't remember which one I played...limited budged back then, bleh), etc did not rely on super-colorful space backgrounds....and yet players had no problem with locating and destroying the enemy.

The only reason for devs to bother with colorful backgrounds and such is exactly as stated. Eye Candy...that and perhaps Lazy Gamer who can't be bothered to learn enough piloting skill to shoot down enemies against a black, starry background.

[Spare-Flair]

Thing is, if I remember right, the games that are held up as the epitome of all space shooter sims *DID* go with primarily all the action taking place in the deep black darkness of space. Freespace 1, Wing Commander (don't remember which one I played...limited budged back then, bleh), etc did not rely on super-colorful space backgrounds....and yet players had no problem with locating and destroying the enemy.

The only reason for devs to bother with colorful backgrounds and such is exactly as stated. Eye Candy...that and perhaps Lazy Gamer who can't be bothered to learn enough piloting skill to shoot down enemies against a black, starry background.

Well that was because those games had wonderful VGA graphics or very early 3D graphics which had extremely limited shading or light levels which meant that any ship you were fighting was a stark colorful contrast to the background of space. IE: Wing Commander II introduced some shading depending on the angle you viewed other ships at, but that was just a sprite that was colored darker and the transition was a very bad frame change from sprite to sprite. Freespace 1 also basically had nothing more than early colored lighting and that still imbued a saturated contrasting color to the background of space.

With new realistic shaders and lighting, a vessel could probably disappear completely into the blackness of space if there wasn't a real lightsource in the map, like a bright sun, etc. reflecting off the ship's hull at the proper angle for you as the player to see.

[Digital Terror]

Great, so that means I would actually have to regain some piloting skills that newer games (JTL, Freelancer, etc) have let rot! BRING on the challenge!

At the very least, include in any game an option to SHUT OFF all those annoying backgrounds, so that fighting in Space FEELS like fighting in Space!

[yblocgerg]

I provide this merely for amusement, as you can see from my sig:

The industry has decided that space sims are no long viable due to the advent of LCD displays. There is no longer a possible way to obtain a realistic level of black space with our current, mind boggling graphics hardware :p

(same reason lots of pple disliked doom3, bahahaha)

[Spare-Flair]

I provide this merely for amusement, as you can see from my sig:

The industry has decided that space sims are no long viable due to the advent of LCD displays. There is no longer a possible way to obtain a realistic level of black space with our current, mind boggling graphics hardware :p

(same reason lots of pple disliked doom3, bahahaha)

So your sig is for amusement only also? I wish the answer was as simple as that. Then there'd at least be hope that with better black-level LCDs (although current gen isn't bad), and with SED displays that the space sims would return in droves :P

[Nasty_Savage]

I recently mailed those CDs to a poor guy on dialup. :D
(The bandwidth is nice, but the latency could be better.)

Funny thing is, I am on cable and my downloads are just lightning quick they must be hosting from dial up :D I cancelled the download. I'll try again some other time ;)

[mhenley]

Can you get it to work with Win2k/XP? I love that game but I remember having trouble installing it after upgrading from 98se.

Bruce Campbell = lord and savior.

http://dosbox.sourceforge.net/news.php?show_news=1

Windows compatibility is worthless, but DOSBox has allowed me to play all my old games. Civilization, Master of Magic, Master of Orion, Commander Keen, etc...

[mhenley]

I provide this merely for amusement, as you can see from my sig:

The industry has decided that space sims are no long viable due to the advent of LCD displays. There is no longer a possible way to obtain a realistic level of black space with our current, mind boggling graphics hardware :p

(same reason lots of pple disliked doom3, bahahaha)

I have to agree with you, yet at the same time point out that you couldn't be more wrong.

Viable = Possible

The industry has decided that space sims are no longer -profitable- due to a vast number of consumers choosing the wrong hardware. It has been known since the very beginning that flat panel monitors were not capable of displaying true black, yet consumers were more concerned about desk layout, weight of product, and were sometimes even swayed by taking into consideration that they might occaisonally need to move around their desktop pc's monitor.

I'm willing to bet that Doom3 didn't receive as much appriciation from the gamers, because the gamers made poor choices, and the industry suffered as a result. This may be a factor in game companies no longer making space sims, due to the recent popularity of game-destroying display equipment.

As far as your comment, "There is no longer a possible way to obtain a realistic level of black...", yes, its possible, with CRT. Ask anybody who does CAD work, or any game enthusiast who refuses to give up what LCD cannot provide... blackness.

[Digital Terror]

Funny thing is, I am on cable and my downloads are just lightning quick they must be hosting from dial up :D I cancelled the download. I'll try again some other time ;)

If you are talking about HotU, they have all downloads severely limited in bandwidth so that they can serve more people at the same time. Net effect is the same as if they were uploading on a 56k. Just start the download before you head to bed, and it'll be done by the time you get up :rolleyes:

[PopeKevinI]

Great, so that means I would actually have to regain some piloting skills that newer games (JTL, Freelancer, etc) have let rot! BRING on the challenge!

At the very least, include in any game an option to SHUT OFF all those annoying backgrounds, so that fighting in Space FEELS like fighting in Space!

I find myself once again pimping B5:IFH :D

The game forces you to navigate on instruments if you're a few km out, and most of the backgrounds are black with some distant nebulae.

I'm going to have to install the game again now, been thinking about it too much. Need to hurry and finish Doom 3...

[Jeriko_Cherry]

http://dosbox.sourceforge.net/news.php?show_news=1

Windows compatibility is worthless, but DOSBox has allowed me to play all my old games. Civilization, Master of Magic, Master of Orion, Commander Keen, etc...

awesome, thanks I'll check it out.

[Xrave]

I never had much of a problem with following targets on a black background in Freespace 1 and 2. Unless I was directly next to a fighter in a dog fight, or relatively close to a capital ship, I would only use the radar to fly and navigate...I had no issue finding my objectives even if I couldn't see them initially.

[EndersGame]

I also just installed and got Tie Fighter the collectors edition (DOS) working perfectly on Windows XP service pack 2...

Just get the program VDMSound, and install it after installing TIE FIGHTER, modify the VDM config file to unrem the line that adds CDROM support, then just right click on the TIEAUTO.EXE and choose "launch in VDMSound" and configure your sound to autodetect, it will detect the emulated sound card, and then launch the game.

VDM will use your current joystick in the control panel and make the DOS games use it etc...

Basicly it works perfectly on my Windows XP service pack 2 with my Microsoft ForceFeedback 2 joystick. perfect sound etc...

I tried DOSBox at first but the sound stuttered and it just didnt run good, VDMSound though BLEW MY MIND....

[beck192]

I miss the Freespace games :(

Maybe I should load them up, but that'd require installing my sidewinder as well...

[Spare-Flair]

tried DOSBox at first but the sound stuttered and it just didnt run good, VDMSound though BLEW MY MIND....

I'm certain DOSBox is better, the problem is you probably didn't press CTRL-F12 to increase your CPU cycles.

I miss the Freespace games :(

Maybe I should load them up, but that'd require installing my sidewinder as well...

Sadly, my $100 Sidewinder Force Feedback won't work anymore because I don't have serial gameports on my computers anymore. Any info on how those gameport to USB adapters are?

[EndersGame]

I'm certain DOSBox is better, the problem is you probably didn't press CTRL-F12 to increase your CPU cycles.



Sadly, my $100 Sidewinder Force Feedback won't work anymore because I don't have serial gameports on my computers anymore. Any info on how those gameport to USB adapters are?

Negative sir, I did increase my frame rate.. frame rate was not a problem, it was the fact that the "sound" studered but music did not...

VDMSound worked perfectly, secondly DOSBox requires you to "mount" the c drive and cd rom drives with the mount c c:\mygame, and mound d d:\ -t cdrom

I realize that you must of thought i was a brainless person and automaticly assumed i was a dumbass, but VDMSound does work better.

[PopeKevinI]

I've never had any successul using DOSBox. Probably because I'm not so determined to play any old game that I'll talk the time to learn how to use it. It can't seem to run any game "out of the box". If I'd paid for the software, I'd say all sorts of nasty things about it. Since it's freeware, I'll just say it doesn't work for me :D

[oqvist]

We don´t need no damn emulators we need real new fresh space sims. I can´t understand why that genre so completely died :(

[HHunt]

Sadly, my $100 Sidewinder Force Feedback won't work anymore because I don't have serial gameports on my computers anymore. Any info on how those gameport to USB adapters are?

A guy I know uses one, and it has a few small niggles, but when it's working it's just fine.
(It doesn't see the joystick unless he un/re-plugs it in while in windows, or something like that.)

[Nomadicaus]

Wow, I'm really surprised. Five pages on space sims, and only one mention of the Independence War series so far. When it comes to physics and realism, I don't think I've played a game yet that's quite up to par with 'em. Both games have a pretty steep learning curve though. Maybe that's part of why I liked them so much. :P

[omega-x]

dont forget the freeware? babylon 5 "i've found her"

steep STEEP learning curve. but damned if its not true to B5.

[TheBluePill]

A guy I know uses one, and it has a few small niggles, but when it's working it's just fine.
(It doesn't see the joystick unless he un/re-plugs it in while in windows, or something like that.)

You can always buy this inexpensive Sound card for $12 and only use the game port;

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16829117105

I have a Thrustmaster that is collecting dust.. Waiting for the day I can use it again on a new SIm..

[TheBluePill]

Where is Chris Roberts When we need him most?

[Dan_D]

Growing up, my favorite genre was also the space sim, especially a series like Wing Commander. My pilthy 286 could never dream of running Wing Commander so I sneaked to my friend's house and play that game for hours there, humourously, spending more time in the in-game space simulator in the Tiger's Claw cafeteria than actually on sorties.

Throughout the 1990s, there was a never ending parade of fantastic Wing Commander games, I had the skill of leading my target, getting missle locks, etc. perfectly. There was also a great complement of Lucasarts games like X-Wing and Tie Fighter.

Then there was the great Descent Freespace, and finally, Freespace 2 which is really, the last good space sim ever made. But what the hell? That was Space Combat Game of the Year 1999!!!

Yes, 6 years ago. And now there has been nothing ever since. We just get mindless FPS clone after FPS clone and I think it's a horrible shame, with this amazing hardware that we have now, that we can't apply any of this graphical power to a space simulator.

Why has the genre completely died out? Is there no hope? Nothing on the horizon? I want to see antialiased ships. I want to see incredible shader effects as I fly through a nebula or the atmosphere of a planet. I want to see modern particle effects and bump mapping as I fly into intense space combat with hundreds of fighters and giant warships and carriers. I want to see HDR lighting as I accidently fly in the direction of a sun and get momentarily blinded.

Come on! Does the first person shooter have to be the only platform where we ever get to flex the muscles of all the hardware we spend our hard-earned money on? Can't game companies get creative or innovative again? Where is Wing Commander 6? Oh...that's right, EA destroyed the franchise and swept it under the carpet. Where is Freespace 2? Oh yeah, Interplay is bankrupt. These were such amazing games and yet, they don't seem to recieve any support, from either the developers or fans anymore. Am I the only one left? Are all our force feedback joysticks with 8-way hats just collecting dust under our desks?

This pisses me off too. I truely miss the space games. That's IT DAMNIT! I should start a game company and bring back the Space Combat games!

Seriuosly, if I knew how to get started I would.

[Grimmda]

So this thread has gotten me back into the joy that is Freelancer. And the Crossfire mod...
http://www.crossfire.swat-portal.de/mod.htm

Check it out, not a bad mod. Fun multiplayer. I guess. I have a feeling I'll get bored and stop playing it but it's something to look forward to going home and playing.

[SuperSubZero]

I want the space battle scenes from Star Wars. MMO, huge scale, carriers, gunships, tons of fighters, a few capital ships, and some really big tough targets. I want Allegiance, but just alot BIGGER.

[Dan_D]

I would think they'd be cranking out space games. You just need models and a black background with white dots for stars. Not that tough compared to FPS's. They could be made very expansive and kick ass with today's technology. Freespace 2 really was the last good space/flight shooter ever made.

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

Don't forget there's also Starlancer and Freelancer! :)

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

Oh yeah, we need Chris Roberts back in the game! :P

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

For that matter, hasn't a similar fate befallen adventure games, ala. Sam 'n Max, Day of the Tentacle, Full Throttle, etc.?

[PopeKevinI]

I would think they'd be cranking out space games. You just need models and a black background with white dots for stars. Not that tough compared to FPS's. They could be made very expansive and kick ass with today's technology. Freespace 2 really was the last good space/flight shooter ever made.

You also need a physics engine, AI, and plot :p

[Digital Terror]

they could easily use some of the older engines from highly regarded gamer classics, updating it some for current specs.

AI would be the hard part of the whole task..but being able to have the engine completely out of the way would drastically reduce the total amount of time and effort that would need to go into a new game. As for plot, just find a good writer and have them create one. Spend some of the money you save on recycling an old gamer classic engine, and hire an author like R.A. Salvatore, Mercedes Lackey, etc...someone who is a best selling author...and have them create a plot for you.

[Spare-Flair]

Well, there's already an fan upgrade to Wing Commander somewhere but I think it just uses the really old engine so it doesn't look too great. And there's a Macross conversion for Homeworld 2.

[Chilly]

I really got to say you guys are all LAZY, currently I'm making a layout and plans for a space sim, Think of the simplicty of eve-online, but with more control (not point and click like eve-online is) being able to create fleets and control the ship from *inside* it (as in walking around the ship), and smaller ships would be 1 person and etc, but larger ships would require crew members (all npcs automaticly given to you) but they would have to be humans, now this would only be like on a capital ship (Huge ass 1 mile ships with 5000 crew type thing) mainy because it would work such as 5 crew, captin(you) piolit (you) gunners (2 people) and 2 fighters people with 1 engineer (for repairing ship while in battle) while all of this could taken over by npc's, well, they would be shit compaired to humans but :P) mind you they could all have there OWN ships in the capitals ship hanger and be able to use some of ships in capital ship hanger, anyways that would take like 3 months of game time to get (if you can guess this would be mmorpg) in begining but eventually get harder and harder to get, (mainly because at first I would want a few fleets and etc to lift off so it doen't take like 2 years to get the game going) and serving on a ship would gve an added bonus such as it accellerates your learning and stuff (so to encurage people to want to serve on peoples ships), well theres alot more than that but I'm making the idea and etc, and hopefully I can get a team togther to make a TC for some game engine (like source for example) or perhaps get investors to make it in future :P one or the other.

Chilly

[PopeKevinI]

I really got to say you guys are all LAZY,

Oooooor maybe we're not developers. Yeah, that could be it. Curse this "real life" thing that doesn't give us enough time to develop games on the side. :p

[Chilly]

Oooooor maybe we're not developers. Yeah, that could be it. Curse this "real life" thing that doesn't give us enough time to develop games on the side. :p


:p yea lol, well sorry I hate seeing people complaining and doing nothing about it :p, sigh if only good developers were easy to find :(

Chilly

[IceWind]

I really got to say you guys are all LAZY

http://img346.imageshack.us/img346/6039/stfu8gg.jpg

[Rich Tate]

Knock off the name calling and bickering guys. If you can't discuss maturely, then don't post.

[valkyre]

I don't care what anybody says, Freespace 1 & 2 were the best space sims ever created. ;)

[IceWind]

I don't care what anybody says, Freespace 1 & 2 were the best space sims ever created. ;)

Word, though the orginal X-Wing takes the crown for starting it all.


I'll never forget this moment in time in Freespace 2

Beta 1: Command, theres a huge warship coming out of subspace"
Command: "Status is friendly, meet the Colusessus, the largest spacefaring warship ever constructed"
Me: Holy...mother of God.............................. :eek:
Colessesus: This is the GTVA Colessus command, we have arrived on station. All batteries, fire at will!!!!!
Me: Creams pants....

BOOOOOOOOMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[GT98]

I really miss Privateer. I found my old copy of that the other day. I remember opening the box and seeing FOURTEEN 3.5" floppy disks, and going "man, I hope I have the hard drive space for this. I might have to delete commander keen or wolfenstein 3d for a while."

Those where the golden age of gaming to me...I remember many of Origins programs being like that...14-20-25 Floppies to install..all in the days before CD-ROM drives and 3D accellerators.

[Molingrad]

X-Com was pretty cool too, not sure if a real "space" sim but fun non the less.

maybe it was fun just because i was so young, i dont think i could enjoy it today

[PopeKevinI]

X-Com was pretty cool too, not sure if a real "space" sim but fun non the less.

maybe it was fun just because i was so young, i dont think i could enjoy it today

X-COM was one of the best games ever! I still play Apocalypse, just because I can't get the original to run slow enough to be playable :)

[TheBluePill]

Anyone Identify what Space Sim this Picture in "The Escapist" Magazine is from.. It looks familiar somehow?

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/16/10

[Spare-Flair]

Word, though the orginal X-Wing takes the crown for starting it all.


I'll try not to comment too hard on this statement when Wing Command preceded X-Wing by almost 4 years.

[Spare-Flair]

Anyone Identify what Space Sim this Picture in "The Escapist" Magazine is from.. It looks familiar somehow?

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/16/10

The article says "Macro-Miner from Eve" I suppose that's where it's from.

[Spanner]

Hell, I'm suprised noone has mentioned Terminus yet! Now that was a great game!
And for the Privateer/Wing Commander Fans: http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/ Yes, it does work with windows xp, and there is comodities.

[Xrave]

X-Com was pretty cool too, not sure if a real "space" sim but fun non the less.

maybe it was fun just because i was so young, i dont think i could enjoy it today


X-Com was such a great game. I remember playing Apocalypse well into the 70 game hour range and still (supposedly) not being anywhere near the end of the game.

[jtsnewo4]

Word, though the orginal X-Wing takes the crown for starting it all.


I'll never forget this moment in time in Freespace 2

Beta 1: Command, theres a huge warship coming out of subspace"
Command: "Status is friendly, meet the Colusessus, the largest spacefaring warship ever constructed"
Me: Holy...mother of God.............................. :eek:
Colessesus: This is the GTVA Colessus command, we have arrived on station. All batteries, fire at will!!!!!
Me: Creams pants....

BOOOOOOOOMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Word. I quit flying my ship when that thing jumped in. Almost crapped my pants as well. The sound of that thing was AWESOME. (yes, I know there is no sound in space, its a gmae FCOl)

[AGampher]

Anyone Identify what Space Sim this Picture in "The Escapist" Magazine is from.. It looks familiar somehow?

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/16/10

That shot is from EVE online (http://www.eve-online.com). I play it just about every day. Shoot me a PM if you want a free trial.

[jtsnewo4]

I know its not a spaace sim game, but I am REALLY looking forward to "Sword of the Stars" from Kerebos productions.

[PixPirate]

Man you guys got me wanting a good space sim again! I too started out with Wing commander (On a 386-SX16!) and I still miss the thrill.

The best, last one that I liked was X-Wing alliance. Excellent action, excellent plot, and plays just fine on XP.

I played Freespace1, looked for FS2 but could never find it. Had no idea it was available, I'll have to check it out.

I never played Star Trek:Bridge commander, anybody know how it was? Lawrence Holland was the king of space sims (Along with Chris Roberts...boy he made a stinker of a movie, though!)

PP

[jtsnewo4]

Man you guys got me wanting a good space sim again! I too started out with Wing commander (On a 386-SX16!) and I still miss the thrill.

The best, last one that I liked was X-Wing alliance. Excellent action, excellent plot, and plays just fine on XP.

I played Freespace1, looked for FS2 but could never find it. Had no idea it was available, I'll have to check it out.

I never played Star Trek:Bridge commander, anybody know how it was? Lawrence Holland was the king of space sims (Along with Chris Roberts...boy he made a stinker of a movie, though!)

PP

If you liked FS you will absolutely love FS2, until you finish and come to the realization that there will never be a FS3. :( :cry:

[Spare-Flair]

Man you guys got me wanting a good space sim again! I too started out with Wing commander (On a 386-SX16!) and I still miss the thrill.

The best, last one that I liked was X-Wing alliance. Excellent action, excellent plot, and plays just fine on XP.

I played Freespace1, looked for FS2 but could never find it. Had no idea it was available, I'll have to check it out.

I never played Star Trek:Bridge commander, anybody know how it was? Lawrence Holland was the king of space sims (Along with Chris Roberts...boy he made a stinker of a movie, though!)

PP

Star Trek Bridge Commande was actually amazingly fun and engrossing. It really felt like you were on a bridge and it's basically a space sim and the combat system is fun.

[WhyYouLoveMe]

Man you guys got me wanting a good space sim again! I too started out with Wing commander (On a 386-SX16!) and I still miss the thrill.

The best, last one that I liked was X-Wing alliance. Excellent action, excellent plot, and plays just fine on XP.

I played Freespace1, looked for FS2 but could never find it. Had no idea it was available, I'll have to check it out.

I never played Star Trek:Bridge commander, anybody know how it was? Lawrence Holland was the king of space sims (Along with Chris Roberts...boy he made a stinker of a movie, though!)

PP

There's also an expansion pack for Freespace 2 so be sure to look for that as well. I don't remember the name of it though...

[Jesus_Faction]

There's also an expansion pack for Freespace 2 so be sure to look for that as well. I don't remember the name of it though...

FS2 never had an expansion

FS1 had silent threat expansion tho as far as i know

[WhyYouLoveMe]

FS2 never had an expansion

FS1 had silent threat expansion tho as far as i know

Oh. My bad. It has been too long...

[omega-x]

FS2's gone open source and now has a huge dx9 shader mod.

[Dan_D]

FS2's gone open source and now has a huge dx9 shader mod.

Where might I find it?

[WhyYouLoveMe]

FS2's gone open source and now has a huge dx9 shader mod.

Me want!! Linky?!

[omega-x]

http://scp.indiegames.us/news.php
and to wet your appetite...
http://fs2source.warpcore.org/wmcscreenies/deimos.png

[BoxDude]

sweetness!

[Axdrenalin]

Okay - so the next obvious question is *where* can I get FS2 at so I'll have the original 11+ megs of files needed to use the FS2 open source patches? At least, thats my take after glancing through the readme.txt files. Ebay sucks and I can't seem to locate it elsewhere. :(

Ax

[Nasty_Savage]

Okay - so the next obvious question is *where* can I get FS2 at so I'll have the original 11+ megs of files needed to use the FS2 open source patches? At least, thats my take after glancing through the readme.txt files. Ebay sucks and I can't seem to locate it elsewhere. :(

Ax

best i can do:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref=pd_sl_aw_tops-1_blended_9429318_2/002-8435431-2921636?search-alias=aps&keywords=freespace%202

[The King of Pants]

Freespace 2 has a weird EULA that allows owners to make a copy for a friend. that would be the route i'd try to go rather than getting scalped on amazon. ask around someone you know has to have a copy.

[Axdrenalin]

best i can do:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref=pd_sl_aw_tops-1_blended_9429318_2/002-8435431-2921636?search-alias=aps&keywords=freespace%202

Wow!!! I appreciate the linkage, but all I can say is Wow!!! I can't believe that peope are asking the kinds of prices that do for that game, especially after 5+ years out. :eek:

Guess I'll wait and hope somebody out there can offer me one at a better price... :(

Freespace 2 has a weird EULA that allows owners to make a copy for a friend. that would be the route i'd try to go rather than getting scalped on amazon. ask around someone you know has to have a copy.

Well, thats another issue - I live back in the woods where hardly anyone has anything like that. Beside - no disrespect to their EULA - but I like to own my software personally.

Ax

[Jesus_Faction]

does anyone know a good way to get FS1 to run at higher res?

[Xyrax]

I skimmed this thread and didn't notice this posted so if it's a repost, sorry.

here's something in the works that uses the FS2 engine.
http://www.game-warden.com/bsg/

[Axdrenalin]

Okay - new twist on the availablility of FS2. I've found this in stripped down form at HotU (Home of the Underdogs) for download (labeled as *abandonware*), but there are all kinds of questions in my mind as to the legality of this. Yeah, there's the disclaimer on the HotU site too, so my question is "what constitutes Abandonware" exactly?

I went ahead and order me a sealed version (20th Anniversary edition) from Ebay, anyways. :rolleyes:

Ax

[theNoid]

I got sooooooooooooo addicted to Freelancer. It was the first Microsoft Game Studio game that I was really impressed with. I am definately sad there aren't any new space sims out there ...........

SOMEONE PLEASE MAKE ONE!

[dave6821]

A new massive multiplay online player space sim would be excellent! I remember I used to play descent all the time as a kid.

[Axdrenalin]

I got sooooooooooooo addicted to Freelancer. It was the first Microsoft Game Studio game that I was really impressed with. I am definately sad there aren't any new space sims out there ...........

SOMEONE PLEASE MAKE ONE!

I still play Freelancer online - The Void Server (Void Mod) makes it pretty interesting, Adding some new systems and ships as well as the old. Been looking for something more lately. FL is nice, but after you've played it as long as I have, it gets kinda stale. :(

Ax

[dave6821]

Does anyone want to actually make a space sim game using some other engine? I mean I don't know much about programming, but im definitely willing to learn, as I always wanted to know how. I'd try and help out as much as I can, if anyone else is willing to set up some sort of developer team?

[CreganTur]

Freespace. Most gamers you mention that name to immediately begin a rant of how good the franchise was, how awesome the storyline was, how great the graphics were and how they wish Volition would make Freespace 3.

Six years and still waiting on that one.

Other companies have tried to cash in on this undervalued genre with such titles as Starlancer. The new trend involves giving the player an entie galaxy to explore and a mandate to "go play." Trading is available, as well as piracy and becoming a mercenary. All of this freedom can be a good thing, but too much freedom, in the gaming sense, can lead to boredom, comfusion, and the player loosing interest.

I digress.

Has there really been a Space Combat Sim (SCS) released that can even rival the Freespace franchise? Do people even care about that type of gaming anymore? I think they do. I turned a co-worker onto Freespace just by talking about the game for five minutes, and now he's hooked! Why do game-makers fail to create any more games for this genre? The possibilities are wide open!

What about making a SCS that brings real physics into the game engine? What about creating levels where you can enter an atmosphere? There are so many innovations possible with this type of game, but does anyone really care?

Are we nearing the death of the Space Combat Sim?

[Tekara]

It's just trends, the scifi trend will hit again and space flight sims will take off once again. Maybe see another great game like TIEvsX-Wing, Wing Comander or Privateer. . . I did really enjoy privateer. I've been having some fun loading classic wing commander games up on dosbox lately, works great!

[heatsinker]

There's always 3000AD, but I never did have much luck with those games.

[jtsnewo4]

Any chance there will be a Firefly themed game? Just curious. I'd rather see FS3 though.

[Obi_Kwiet]

Is X3 any good?

[CantAimWhenDrunk]

Tell me about it.

Tie Fighter Collector's CD is one of the best games ever of any genre, let alone space combat. It's still one of my top 5 all time favorites.

[kohan69]

There are a few freewares, google: space sim combat

some took an mmorpg twist such as Star Wars galaxies: lightforce
and EVE online

but not the hard-core space sim

there was one game, that was lie fps+vehicles+space combat, not tooo mcuh space combat, its called BREED, one of the best games imho

Star wars: starfigher is the last pure SCS I can remember

another great SpaceCombat sim for the freespace2 era is

Independence War 2, its story, still open and still enough action and online too

[Killdozer]

The "Shitty First Person Shotter" fad is been around for FAR too long.
Right after the RTS and Space Sim fad, which was almost 7 or 8 years ago, we've been sucking down these worthless FPS games. I'm ready for a change, that's for sure.

[ScotteusMaximus]

i really want a new X-wing or tie fighter game. X-wing alliance was alright, but just for kicks, i busted out tie fighter a few weeks ago, and i had more fun playing that than most recent games put together.

[Neurofreeze]

The "Shitty First Person Shotter" fad is been around for FAR too long.
Right after the RTS and Space Sim fad, which was almost 7 or 8 years ago, we've been sucking down these worthless FPS games. I'm ready for a change, that's for sure.

Well the RTS/Space Sim fad ended about 2000? It's kind of hard to say since WC3 and TFT was immensely popular but was kind of the lonestar in the market at the time (2003). Other titles had very little market penetration compared to the days of old.

Anyway, the FPS "fad" might have some time left in it yet if it only picked up after that fad. FPS and RTS kind of bounce back and forth. Back in the day it was all about Wolfenstein and original Doom, then came some sequels and derivatives, then the WC2 and C&C era and its sequels/derivatives, then back to FPS.

I'm not sure where great titles like X-wing vs. TIE fighter fit in... memory hazy.

[Archer75]

EVE Online

[Wrench00]

There will never be FS3 because Violition unfortunatly doesn't have the right to FS series.. Fucking Interplay does.

[UoMDeacon]

Good question. The bench they released is absolutely beautiful.

Is X3 any good?

[bladeiai]

Is X3 any good?

it seems like its pretty good I havent had much time to play it and it is the type of game I think you have to play alot to get the most out of it, however pilioting the capital ships in the test mission thing was pretty cool

[PureBooYah]

Is X3 any good?

I've been playing it for the last couple of weeks and I love it. The game can be a little overwhelming at first because they just throw you into the universe without a tutorial but after the first few hours of playing you get the hang of things. It's a game where you can pretty much do whatever you want (some say it's like a single player eve online).

Just to give you a little idea of the game....You start out with one ship and a little money, but it's not too hard to figure out ways to make money. And whatever you do influences your relationship with the other races. If you attack their stuff you'll lose recognition and they'll either become enemies or not allow you to trade with them. If you help them fight an enemy or if you trade with them you'll gain recognition which gives you access to more of their goods and ships to buy. And at every station you dock at there are odd jobs you can do like help transport goods, give people rides to other stations, or people wanting someone assassinated.

The manual for the game explains a lot. And the universe in the game is absolutely huge. I've probably played the game for 150 hours and still haven't explored every sector. There is a main plot story that doesn't take that long to get through and when you finish they give you free-will of the game. Or you can just start out by being able to do whatever without a story.

[Moose777]

I too have been looking for a good SCS like WC3 or X-Wing but haven't found anything.

Is X3 a third person game or FPS?

I personally feel that SCS need to be in FPS because I feel thats what made them so great. Its fine to walk around in 3rd person but once I'm in a ship I want to see the HUD, see the cockpit controls.

And another thing that turned me off to the X series is Star Force. Does X3 have Starforce?

[raz-0]

What about making a SCS that brings real physics into the game engine? What about creating levels where you can enter an atmosphere? There are so many innovations possible with this type of game, but does anyone really care?

Are we nearing the death of the Space Combat Sim?

Someone made a SCS with real physics. It was the most un-fun game I've ever played. I'm not the only one who thoguht so, two other people I know were both drooling over the concept of the real physics, had the mindset to deal with it, and still thought it was horribly unfun. Very realistic, but about the most tedious and boring thing ever.

Which leads to another problem with SCS games. Namely the controls. A large portion of people find controlling an object in a large open space where you can move in any direction and there is no down to be very hard to get a handle on, and thus not enjoyable. Even those that can deal with it often times find beating it into a mouse and keyboard, or a simple joystick to be less than ergonomic. So if the game actually requires good piloting performance, you get your ass kicked from the get go, which is no fun.

About the only SCS type game I've played that got the controls down to a point where they were increadibly accessable was Freelancer, which a lot of SCS fans pissed and moaned about the controls being too easy.

Heck, there are lots of folks bitchng and moaning that X3 gives you docking computers from the get go. Which pretty much made 90% of X2 content meaningless to most folks. To most folks, that was like putting a super hard jumping puzzle on the first level of a platformer.

The problem basically boils down to a disconnect between waht SCS fans like, what makes a good game, and what the crowd of folks that represent actual profit want to play. The end result is that SCS games are a niche product like flight sims, and similarly try to throttle production to avoid oversaturating the market. Similarly, they don't get a lot of ad dollars spent on them.

going back the 7 years claimed by the one poster since SCS was "in"

You've had X, X2, X3, Starlancer, Freelancer, Independence war 2, freespace 2, the horrible game referenced above that I cannot remember. Battlecruiser millenium, Universal Combat, Universal Combat - a world apart, riftspace, star wraith, star wraith IV, evochron, EVE online, Rogue leader - rogue squadron II, and I'm sure I'm missing one or two.

[UoMDeacon]

Looks like X3 is something I will look into picking up. Will probably need an upgrade though...that demo kicked my 6800NUs butt.

I still remember loving Freespace2. I think mostly because the story was actually engaging. I never got around to reinstalling it...maybe I will sometime soon. Need to get a joystick for it though.

[Kevin Lowe]

It's clearly time for an X-Wing game - offer simplified controls for console users (with d-pad menus in case we need those options), or the option of more complex ones for PC users. Just don't dumb down the missions themselves, and it'll be amazing.

I'd love to see LucasArts' analyses for this - I'd imagine they at least consider the idea every couple years.

[Moose777]

I've noticed a trend in these discussions. It seems people only mention a few games but forget games like entire Wing Commander Franchise, Privateer and a few others.

Why is that? I think Origin had the whole SCS thing down to a science, the games were terribly fun and the controls weren't too difficult and could be played with a joystick, controller or a mouse and keyboard.

[PureBooYah]

I too have been looking for a good SCS like WC3 or X-Wing but haven't found anything.

Is X3 a third person game or FPS?

I personally feel that SCS need to be in FPS because I feel thats what made them so great. Its fine to walk around in 3rd person but once I'm in a ship I want to see the HUD, see the cockpit controls.

And another thing that turned me off to the X series is Star Force. Does X3 have Starforce?

In X3 all you see is the HUD, no cockpit controls. And depending on where the cockpit is on the ship you might see the front of the ship. And sadly yes, X3 does use starforce. I haven't had any problems with it, but it is annoying

[Moose777]

Well, it being a quasi-FPS is cool as hell.

The Starforce thing doesn't make me want to buy it now. Too bad, because it looked like a really good game.

[Spanner]

Someone made a SCS with real physics. It was the most un-fun game I've ever played. I'm not the only one who thoguht so, two other people I know were both drooling over the concept of the real physics, had the mindset to deal with it, and still thought it was horribly unfun. Very realistic, but about the most tedious and boring thing ever.
.
That was probably Terminus, I believe. I tried it, I think it's available on the Underdogs. I kinda like it, really.

There's also a freeware version of Privateer/WC being made called Vega Strike. It's not bad.

[BladeVenom]

Well, it being a quasi-FPS is cool as hell.

The Starforce thing doesn't make me want to buy it now. Too bad, because it looked like a really good game.

The Starforce trojan is a deal breaker for me as well.

[Obi_Kwiet]

Technicallly, wouldn't it be legal to buy the game and *obtain it simultaneously via non-company sanctioned means*. I mean, really if you own the game the company has 100% no basis for whining.

[warlock]

Technicallly, wouldn't it be legal to buy the game and *obtain it simultaneously via non-company sanctioned means*. I mean, really if you own the game the company has 100% no basis for whining.

But by giving them money for the game, you are basically telling them that Starforce is ok to use, and that it doesnt matter if its there or not, the game will still sell.

[Russ]

The "Shitty First Person Shotter" fad is been around for FAR too long.
Right after the RTS and Space Sim fad, which was almost 7 or 8 years ago, we've been sucking down these worthless FPS games. I'm ready for a change, that's for sure.

I think the game developers must have noticed that CS is popular as h*ll.... It's really annoying, I agree.

[EndersGame]

Space sims are not dead people you just need to look harder these days...

Pick up "Nexus: The jupiter Incident" and "Hegemonia: Legions of Iron" for damn good space sims especailly Nexus the Jupiter Incident..

Nexus is the BEST SCIFI game I have played in the last 2 years period....

[PanzerBoxb]

I second the Nexus recommendation for a space game. It can be had for under $20, has a decent storyline, and while the gameplay is a bit slower than many are accustomed to, the game hooked me quick. My only wish is for more mods, especially a Battlefleet Gothic one.

[Kevin Lowe]

I've noticed a trend in these discussions. It seems people only mention a few games but forget games like entire Wing Commander Franchise, Privateer and a few others.

While I too have fond memories of Wing Commander, the idea of what today's EA would do to my beloved childhood is more than enough to stop me from bringing it up.

[kohan69]

Someone made a SCS with real physics. It was the most un-fun game I've ever played.

Who made what?

ps: There's a freeware 100% privateer remake that runs on windows XP with music and better gfx like a charm, google privaterr remake

Im thinking of playing X3, do u need to play x1 and x2 before, or can u just jump right in to x3?

[urbsnspices]

The "Shitty First Person Shotter" fad is been around for FAR too long.
.

Once you get past the 10 year mark I would say it is a bit more then a fad. :p

Speaking of FPS and Space Combat Sims, Some one should combine the two. But I am guessing that would be a huge gamble, it would either be the best game ever or just plain horrible.

[PureBooYah]

Who made what?

ps: There's a freeware 100% privateer remake that runs on windows XP with music and better gfx like a charm, google privaterr remake

Im thinking of playing X3, do u need to play x1 and x2 before, or can u just jump right in to x3?

I didn't play X1 or X2 before X3. I have X2 that came with a video card, but never bothered to install it. It may take a bit of messing around for a while to get the hang of things, like it did for me, but you don't need to play the other 2 games first. AFAIK

[Kwah]

Vega Strike was surprisingly awesome. I just wish there was an easier way to get WC3,4 and the one with the bugs to work in windows xp.

Also, I agree about EA, after what they did to UO I hope they forget WC even exists.

[CZ100B]

Someone made a SCS with real physics. It was the most un-fun game I've ever played. I'm not the only one who thoguht so, two other people I know were both drooling over the concept of the real physics, had the mindset to deal with it, and still thought it was horribly unfun. Very realistic, but about the most tedious and boring thing ever.

Are you talking about StarShatter?

[beanman101283]

It was a cruel joke when i loaded the Empire at War demo and saw that the menu screen is a TIE Fighter cockpit window and it looks like you're flying through a big space battle just like in the TIE Fighter game. It made me miss those old games so much i wanted to cry. lol :p

[Craftish]

Privateer was incredible. What was the built-in followup called? It just had a few extra missions or whatever.

[Dan_D]

Freespace. Most gamers you mention that name to immediately begin a rant of how good the franchise was, how awesome the storyline was, how great the graphics were and how they wish Volition would make Freespace 3.

Six years and still waiting on that one.

Other companies have tried to cash in on this undervalued genre with such titles as Starlancer. The new trend involves giving the player an entie galaxy to explore and a mandate to "go play." Trading is available, as well as piracy and becoming a mercenary. All of this freedom can be a good thing, but too much freedom, in the gaming sense, can lead to boredom, comfusion, and the player loosing interest.

I digress.

Has there really been a Space Combat Sim (SCS) released that can even rival the Freespace franchise? Do people even care about that type of gaming anymore? I think they do. I turned a co-worker onto Freespace just by talking about the game for five minutes, and now he's hooked! Why do game-makers fail to create any more games for this genre? The possibilities are wide open!

What about making a SCS that brings real physics into the game engine? What about creating levels where you can enter an atmosphere? There are so many innovations possible with this type of game, but does anyone really care?

Are we nearing the death of the Space Combat Sim?

It isn't near the death of the space combat sim, they are already dead. No straight combat sim that I can think of has been made in years. Certainly not a good one if there have been any.

[Tekara]

There was privateer 1 and 2, 2 had more story and was actually quite incredible for when it came out, but the gameplay had a few quirks that bugged me like the computer always had the one up on you. You buy a fancy new ship and magically everyone has bigger and better ships that very same instant.

The remake of privateer 1 can be found here: http://wcuniverse.sourceforge.net/
found it recently myself, haven't had the time to check it out, will probably do so this weekend.

[kohan69]

Speaking of FPS and Space Combat Sims, Some one should combine the two. But I am guessing that would be a huge gamble, it would either be the best game ever or just plain horrible.

There are.

Universal Combat


http://img280.imageshack.us/img280/9936/photo0222zq.jpg

http://img280.imageshack.us/img280/4042/1photo0779wr.jpg

BREED

http://img432.imageshack.us/img432/5932/screen0515000027yo.jpg

http://img432.imageshack.us/img432/7500/single23jw.jpg

http://images.ausgamers.com/games/screenshots//Breed/_screen- 05-15-00019.jpg

http://img420.imageshack.us/img420/7684/screen0515000190am.jpg


Mace Griffin's Bounty Hunter



http://img430.imageshack.us/img430/6572/55387720040331screen0105oo.jpg


http://img430.imageshack.us/img430/3584/55387720040331screen0187lr.jpg

Star Wars Battlefront 2

http://img430.imageshack.us/img430/4011/92712920051103screen0190na.jpg

http://img430.imageshack.us/img430/8494/92712920051103screen0057qc.jpg

My favourite is BREED, especially multiplayer, run and kill FPS, get in a figher, fly out of the atmosphere to space, someone follows you, combat in space, fly back down to earth, back on the map, destroy some buildings, get in a tank, kill some more ppl -it's the only game where you can do that

[Moose777]

You can't really use Battlefront 2 though. While I own the game and love it I dont' consider it a space combat sim in the sense that you are thinking. There is just something about it that makes it more arcadeish than simmish.

And I almost bought Bounty Hunter the other day, I just didn't know how it was cause I hadn't heard anything about it.

I'm kind of liking Universal Combat too but no one is selling it. Has it been released yet?

[kohan69]

You can't really use Battlefront 2 though. While I own the game and love it I dont' consider it a space combat sim in the sense that you are thinking. There is just something about it that makes it more arcadeish than simmish.

And I almost bought Bounty Hunter the other day, I just didn't know how it was cause I hadn't heard anything about it.

I'm kind of liking Universal Combat too but no one is selling it. Has it been released yet?

battlefront is arcade-like deffinetly

get demo of griffin first, its crap imho


breed and universal combat are under average (4/10) or less by most reviewers, check out demos

[General Crespin]

It isn't near the death of the space combat sim, they are already dead. No straight combat sim that I can think of has been made in years. Certainly not a good one if there have been any.

Very true.

I've been playing Haegemonia: The Solon heritage lately. It's damn fun, it's a shame it died such a quick death (due to lack of developer and publisher support).

[Hohokam]

can you play x3 with a joystick? or is it a mouse and keybaord thign?

[General Crespin]

Joystick for sure, don't know if it supports mouse/keyboard.

Mouse/keyboard space flight sims are the spawn of the devil.

[Shadowspawn]

Check this out (http://ifh.firstones.com/)

Its a freeware space combat sim based in the Babylon 5 universe. If memory serves it has a fairly steep learning curve, due to the realistic physics. Still, its free and is a great looking game.

[the gamer]

My favourite is BREED, especially multiplayer, run and kill FPS, get in a figher, fly out of the atmosphere to space, someone follows you, combat in space, fly back down to earth, back on the map, destroy some buildings, get in a tank, kill some more ppl [I]-it's the only game where you can do thatCan you really fly into space from earth in breed, if so that's pretty kewl, might go and hire it out later.

[The King of Pants]

Ugh, read some reviews for UC, sounds like another Derek Smart crap-a-thon.

[Vagamus]

can you play x3 with a joystick? or is it a mouse and keybaord thign?Either one ya want. I use a joystick with it all the time.

Don't buy x3 for its story heh. The modding community is friggin nuts though, and the game is easy to mod. Thats why i bought it. Great scripts coming out, great mods coming out, lot of the old x2 mods that i liked are being redone for x3. Its just one of those things where the team makes the base, and the community fills in the gaps.

I think they might get everything perfect in the next incarnation, it only needs a mere few things now and it'll shine. The uh, story is kind of "meh" but the combat is a lot better than x2. As are the graphics, heh.

What i really want is another damned freespace game, or something to the carrier/fighter point to play with again. Plenty of ww2 sims came out, but no one seems to like space anymore. Its like they're all stuck in a ww2 frenzy.

[Spanner]

Ugh, read some reviews for UC, sounds like another Derek Smart crap-a-thon.
Dude! You aren't supposed to mention that name! :D

[[RCKY] Thor]

http://x-plane.com/SpaceCombat.html <--not really a good game, per-se, but it is realistic (physics, etc) if you want to see why you can't shoot a space battle like a WW2 dogfight. (Lucas)

[Nasty_Savage]

Privateer was incredible. What was the built-in followup called? It just had a few extra missions or whatever.

Righteous Fire? BTW, thank whomever for that link...i'm gonna try it as I LOVED that game...

[Nuc_E]

Privateer Remake is awesome. Definately check that link out. They've added some formerly NPC only ships to the list of ships you can buy (can you say Paradigm!?) as well graphical updates.

[hity645]

Thor']http://x-plane.com/SpaceCombat.html <--not really a good game, per-se, but it is realistic (physics, etc) if you want to see why you can't shoot a space battle like a WW2 dogfight. (Lucas)
Lucas created a make-believe world, you can sit here all day and say this and this is impossible.

X-Wing vs. Tie Fighter shall never die!!!!

[Moose777]

Ugh, read some reviews for UC, sounds like another Derek Smart crap-a-thon.
Ok well..nevermind. I was going to say that he might suck but one good thing is that he gives his games away for free after they have run their course. I just DLed Battlecruiser 3000AD 2005 Edition nd it won't install.

[Vagamus]

Thor']http://x-plane.com/SpaceCombat.html <--not really a good game, per-se, but it is realistic (physics, etc) if you want to see why you can't shoot a space battle like a WW2 dogfight. (Lucas)Realism isn't particularly a selling point.

Besides, all his points are invalid and depend more of design of ships and bringing into account the actual forces allowed for. For instance, a starship lumbering, may be poor design, nostalgia, or simply a good idea. I drive trucks. I know i wouldn't want my truck flying around on me as quickly as a car... reason? a LOT to keep track of all at one time. Bet you four-wheelers never think about that when you're cussing at us to go faster ;)

Even with automation and crew, you're still talking reaction times, and complex castes of orders.

As for the fighters and all that... i can see limiting a small object's attitudes to be within pilot stresses, which extends beyond inertia, and into the fact that if we move a craft too quickly, our eyes begin to lose accuracy.

Those points bring up the boring idea that we'd just end up making ships that were on the limits of those things, and every space vessel would eventually react exactly the same.

As I said. Boring. Why realism isn't particularly the idea behind the genre :D

To a point, and this will be true with any space vessel humanity comes up with, there will be a degree of mechanic art put into the vehicle, to make it unique. So. It is then logical to assume that humanity will never hive mind a whole genre of ships to react exactly the same. Look at the space shuttle. Part of it is aerodynamics, part of it is indefinately art, one need only glance at how symettrical it is, and how bits of it are constructed to see.

But anyhow. I'm just rambling about that. You're probably right about that game, doesn't look that inspired to me :)

[Nasty_Savage]

Perhaps the popularity of Battlestar Galactica will spawn a game of some cout :cool:

[Craftish]

I didn't care for the Privateer remake. I guess the blend of new and old graphics made it loose some of its appeal for me. I'd like an exact port. I really hated how you went to the different screen to buy all the weapons/radar/etc. whereas before you used to stay at the ship screen and see an image of the different guns as you scrolled through.

[Moose777]

Perhaps the popularity of Battlestar Galactica will spawn a game of some cout :cool:
BSG is the shi*!!

I would so rock a space combat sim based off the new BSG.

[Hohokam]

Joystick for sure, don't know if it supports mouse/keyboard.

Mouse/keyboard space flight sims are the spawn of the devil.

sweet, that was the one thing i disliked about freelancer was the control scheme.

[kohan69]

Some people claim that realism/good gameplay don't mix.
Well, you obviously have not tried Indpendence War 2

[Vagamus]

Some people claim that realism/good gameplay don't mix.
Well, you obviously have not tried Indpendence War 2Actually, I love the whole series. If you played the second one, play the first one... and see the vast difference. IWar 2 isn't particularly realistic either, but they have good background for things like "why am i hearing sound" and such ;)

IWar 2 is probably the most realistic one out there, but it never sold too well for some reason. I blame the monkies.

But trust me, if you can scratch up a glide wrapper or an old 3dfx card, play the first Iwar, its a shitload more intense, more realistic, tougher, and in the end more rewarding. It was like one of those ww2 flight sims with all the doohickies, like IL-2; you get used to flying with all the realism, and realize how much fun it is.

[fodder0]

i hope it doesnt die! :eek:

[WhyYouLoveMe]

I read the entire thread and no one mentioned Tachyon Fringe. It was a pure SCS but wasn't a smash hit with consumers. I would check it out. I thought it was pretty fun and some of the space station models are fantastic and fun to fly/battle through. Terminus... there's one I had forgotten about. :)

[kohan69]

inner space trial:

http://www.download.com/Operation-Inner-Space/3000-7563-4351686.html?part=winmp&subj=dl&tag=feed&jump=winmp

Innner Space is the first Windows game with true AI. You fly around inside your computer, collecting icons or destroying them, and once all icons are dealt with, you are allowed to leave Inner Space. Imagine doing that at 36 frames per second, even on your 486? That's Inner Space.



It's basicalyl a matrix-y game, a clone of asteroids, topdown, u select a folder on ur computer and it takes its icons and makes em into enemies.

inda Crappy imho, not a SCS

[M4rk]

inner space demo:

http://www.download.com/Operation-Inner-Space/3000-7563-4351686.html?part=winmp&subj=dl&tag=feed&jump=winmp
Weird!

Who here loves Freespace? :D

EDIT: Forgot about this...

The good people that are bringing us a decent Lego Star Wars very soon (based on the original trilogy, not the new crap), are also talking about ANOTHER TIE FIGHTER! YES!!! :eek:

[Tekara]

inner space trial:

http://www.download.com/Operation-Inner-Space/3000-7563-4351686.html?part=winmp&subj=dl&tag=feed&jump=winmp

Innner Space is the first Windows game with true AI. You fly around inside your computer, collecting icons or destroying them, and once all icons are dealt with, you are allowed to leave Inner Space. Imagine doing that at 36 frames per second, even on your 486? That's Inner Space.



It's basicalyl a matrix-y game, a clone of asteroids, topdown, u select a folder on ur computer and it takes its icons and makes em into enemies.

inda Crappy imho, not a SCS

Reminds me of subspace, just without a lot of the cool things that subspace had.

[Kevin Lowe]

The good people that are bringing us a decent Lego Star Wars very soon (based on the original trilogy, not the new crap), are also talking about ANOTHER TIE FIGHTER! YES!!! :eek:

Linkage? If so, you made my day - and that's saying a lot, considering how badly my day has sucked.

[Master Bob]

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=962453 < this topic has popped up before on these forums.

[kohan69]

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=962453 < this topic has popped up before on these forums.

good point, deffinetely check out that thread guys

[kohan69]

THREAD MURGE REQUEST

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1029013573#post1029013573
+
http://hardforum.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=1028909073

[Spare-Flair]

Does anyone want to actually make a space sim game using some other engine? I mean I don't know much about programming, but im definitely willing to learn, as I always wanted to know how. I'd try and help out as much as I can, if anyone else is willing to set up some sort of developer team?

There are a few projects with Freespace 2 and with Wing Commander going.

I still believe that the X3 Engine is best because that game is already almost completey moddable by design and is consistently being modded by it's huge community and fanbase.

This is a tie-fighter running in X3
http://www.flatrock.org.nz/wolf/images/X2_Pix/D_TieInterceptor2.jpg

Wing Commander Banshee (textures not done)
http://www.flatrock.org.nz/wolf/images/X2_Pix/D_Banshee1.jpg

X3 Terran Ship I think
http://www.flatrock.org.nz/wolf/images/X2_Pix/D_Thor1.jpg

Sulaco from Aliens (textures are not updated for the engine yet)
http://www.flatrock.org.nz/wolf/images/X2_Pix/D_Sulaco1.jpg

Other screens:
http://img326.imageshack.us/img326/365/gate4pm.jpg
http://img326.imageshack.us/img326/3919/solar0cu.jpg
http://img326.imageshack.us/img326/3075/m17pd.jpg
http://img326.imageshack.us/img326/7948/cells7nl.jpg
http://img326.imageshack.us/img326/6564/falcon8nc.jpg
http://img326.imageshack.us/img326/4608/boron0yv.jpg
http://img326.imageshack.us/img326/2222/temple1wz.jpg
http://img326.imageshack.us/img326/9558/teladi5wv.jpg
http://img326.imageshack.us/img326/6316/xenon6lj.jpg

Etc.

There are already a couple of modding software, script editors, hundreds of scripts for everything in the game, and many other mods already going.

[Rich Tate]

Merged as requested. ;)

[M4rk]

Linkage? If so, you made my day - and that's saying a lot, considering how badly my day has sucked.
Pick up the new XB magazine, read the Lego Star Wars article, then skip to the back and read the Rumor Mole. ;)

[kohan69]

@SPACE-FLAIR, x3
-That deffinetly looks fantastic, but what about online play?


imho, %95 of people on this forum have a fast/broadband internet connection

there should be a independece war2-ish space sim that is one giant universe, and whenever ppl go play their "single player campaign" there are others doing same thing in "parallel universes" which can be teleported to in later part of the game, so the ppl who progressed more can go back and help the ones starting



ANOTHER thing, besides the once mentioned, what other spacesim can u switch to fps mode, or go explore your ship?



ps: and old thread on same topic has bin merged, please check out the first
8 pages

[Moose777]

There are a few projects with Freespace 2 and with Wing Commander going.

I still believe that the X3 Engine is best because that game is already almost completey moddable by design and is consistently being modded by it's huge community and fanbase.

Etc.

There are already a couple of modding software, script editors, hundreds of scripts for everything in the game, and many other mods already going.
Looks good. And I hear the gameplay is awesome. But....the Starforce thing is a real downer.

[M4rk]

Looks good. And I hear the gameplay is awesome. But....the Starforce thing is a real downer.
Why did you have to quote the pictures? :mad:

[Kevin Lowe]

Looks good. And I hear the gameplay is awesome. But....the Starforce thing is a real downer.
Agreed. Starforce is why I haven't bought X3.

[Moose777]

Why did you have to quote the pictures? :mad:
Sorry, I've been up since 5am so I'm a bit "off" as it were.

[kohan69]

(honestly, this post is not a bump)

Some indy title, Star Wraith

http://img323.imageshack.us/img323/3295/s199zd.jpg

http://starwraith3dgames.home.att.net/


Looks decent! Gonna try it later.

[WhyYouLoveMe]

Star Wraith is a free game so that's cool. I played it for a while and it just feels kinda clunky and old-school. The graphics are dated and the gameplay gets a little stale. I'm gonna install FS2 again and relive the magic. :D

[kohan69]

I'm gonna install FS2 again and relive the magic. :D

I'm trying to find a way to use the dx9 patch with my Freespace2 (i have all 3 cds)

Wanna replay in on 1680x1050 :D

[WhyYouLoveMe]

Where can I grab this "DirectX 9 patch"? :)

[kohan69]

Where can I grab this "DirectX 9 patch"? :)

http://scp.indiegames.us/news.php

I'm digging around that site

[WhyYouLoveMe]

Sweet thanks for the link kohan! I shall check out its contents and mess wit it. :D

[kohan69]

http://www.newscientist.com/blog/shortsharpscience/2006/02/black-hole-flight-simulator.html


^^Black hole flight simulator

[Json23]

I don't know about space combat, but a good space sim is X3. I have been playing it for a week or so now, and that game is a LOT of fun. A steep learning curve, but pretty fun once you start to learn what means what.

Lol, it is the only game I have ever played that I can read the booklet and still don't know what to do. I keep it by the computer so I can look stuff up. But the game itself is amazing I feel.

It even has a few different modes (with the storyline removed) that will set you up to begin simply exploring the universe and creating your trading/mining empire complete with your own space stations/factories/fighter squads.

And the game itself is simply beautiful. Even if I didn't like the game, I wouldn't be able to put it down because I just want to stare at all that beautiful space scenery. The music is very "epic space" themed music as well.