A Modest Proposal- Why 5.1 Headphone Hate?

[Flayum]

Why are 5.1 headphones so unpopular around here? I’m sure for audiophiles the quality is horrible, but for the average Joe, shouldn’t the quality be acceptable? I fine perfectly chugging along on $10 stereo headphones from Sony! Although I understand the “2-ears analogy”, I want to know why a 7.1 set-up is then better than a stereo setup. I just want superior positioning with decent sound (crappy to you guys) when compared to stereo headphones. Although I know the X-Fi has made huge leaps in simulated 5.1 headphones, but can they compare to true 5.1 headphones in positioning? I would like a logical (rather than just a flame) explanation why I should go for a stereo pair (such as the Steelpad 5H) rather than a 5.1 pair (such as Speed Link’s Medusa).

[Vertigo Acid]

Will you *ever* use them for anything besides gaming?

[BBA]

Although I know the X-Fi has made huge leaps in simulated 5.1 headphones, but can they compare to true 5.1 headphones in positioning? .


There is no comparison. The 5.1 headphones absolutely suck for positioning. I have a pair of Zalman 5.1's and have taken them apart and modified them as much as they can be and still, the positioning sucks.

Basically, the speakers can not recreate the queues needed, it's more than positioning, it's frequency response, timing, noise wave cancellation and etc. The 5.1 headphones can not emulate that. The X-Fi emulates that as close as it can for the average persons hearing abilities.

I can pinpoint any sound behind or beside or in front with the X-Fi and stereo headphones, but with the Zalmans all I can tell is left or right, with a hint of a sound maybe coming from a specific driver...but not able to pinpoint.

Believe us all when we tell you, 5.1 headphones do not work. The theory is plausable, but until they do some psychoacoustic processing, they will not compare to teh X-Fi for simulated positioning.

[Ronco]

The Medusa 5.1 provides superior 'one hit' positioning cues to my Sennheiser Orpheus or Stax Omega II, among other headphones I have. I use a Creative X-Fi Elite Pro, with the 2-channel phones using EAX/CMSS-3D. The Medusa is used in EAX/5.1 mode with bass redirection. CMSS-3D on the X-Fi has a noticeable improvement on previous attempts at 3D audio. And while the smooth transition in direction of CMSS is better than the Medusa, in terms of being able to tell immediately where a sound is coming from, I find the 5.1 phone to be noticeably more effective.


Perhaps I just got lucky with my first choice but for me, 5.1 headphones work.

[[nCn]Preacher]

Ok, for the idiots among us, you want to go over that again, this time in engrish?

Positioning = ? Is this referring to the virutal "direction" of the sound source or is this just trying to emulate the position a speaker would occupy in a regular (non-headphone) setup?

Bass redirection = ? Not sure I understand what this is and how it helps/hinders.

Is there a "Surround Sound Headphones FAQ for Dummies" out there somehwere?

[Ronco]

In engrish?

Abusorutery.
- Pozishoningu, ito izu where sound seem to coming from around heddo.
- Bass Redirekushon izu contororu settingu in X-Fi paneru. Wizu it out, rots of disutorshon.

[[nCn]Preacher]

In engrish?

Abusorutery.
- Pozishoningu, ito izu where sound seem to coming from around heddo.
- Bass Redirekushon izu contororu settingu in X-Fi paneru. Wizu it out, rots of disutorshon.


:D Everybodies a comedian! :D That was pretty damn funny though....

[m1abram]

Ok here is the deal.

With Speakers their position related to your head is an UNKNOWN value.

With Headphones their postion related to you head is a KNOWN value.

Because of the above, with speakers you can not perform the calculations in software to delay the sound correctly to create a 3d space (sure you can try and get halfway decent results but will not compare to individual source). Also the most important thing still with 5.1 speaker setups is still the position and spacing of the speakers, if you put them all in too tight a space it wont work.

With headphones because you know exactly where the drivers are in relation to the ears creating the needed delays in software is pretty trivial to create a very good 3d sound. Now the inverse trying to create the delays in hardware (multiple drivers) in the tight space of a headphone is damn near impossible.

[bratboy]

Never had anything against 5.1 headphones but must say that, having heard a cpl 5.1 headsets, I actually think my X-fi does a better job, at least in games and such, with a cheapy stereo headset. Im using a pr from Radio shack that ran me a whoopin $19 (origonally $49 I guess). Anyway I had a friend of mine drop by with his headset and I showed him how things sound and he swears sounds better than some $100 plus 5.1 headset he had.

[thomase]

Even assuming that the positioning is roughly equivalent for both, you can't get the same level of sound quality from a 5.1 set compared to a good stereo set.

Bottom line, some people say 5.1 works better, but MOST seem to say that something like the X-Fi-s CMSS3D-Headphone works better. The X-Fi's method should work for the average set of ears, but there are some people for which it does not work very well, and those may be the people who prefer something like the Medusas.

[Ronco]

The bigger question is how many people have used them before panning them.

From what I can see, MOST of what goes on is someone first posts a question "Which headphones to get?" they get recommended various out of which they choose one based on peer opinions usually without listening, and since the A-T's and DT770 don't suck as such they proclaim it the best headphones they've used to date... and they recommend that to anyone else. Rinse and repeat. I'm not saying that the Medusas beat these two for music. For all sorts of reasons they don't. But then they aren't wholly horrible for casual listening (provided you don't set set the phones to 2 channel), and I would say it's a case of priorities... if it's mainly gaming, then these are worth a shot.

[m1abram]

The bigger question is how many people have used them before panning them.


I will post I have NEVER tested 5.1 headphones. However I know from simple physics and my experience with audio that an equal pair of headphones quality wise the 5.1 will always be worse than standard headphones. 5.1 headphones is a clear gimmic feature that manufacturers use to sell product.

In audio world and in most things follow the K.I.S.S. rule. If you want incredible surround sound in a headphone then look for dobly headphone techinology. This tech works with ANY two channel headphones.

[Ronco]

Assumption & Conjecture > Experience. It was ever thus on the 'Net. :rolleyes:

[jpmkm]

I'd say a basic understanding of the physics of sound combined with a basic understanding of how the brain processes sound is why there is so much hate for 5.1 channel headphones. If you want to know more, read any of the previous threads on the subject. There are plenty of logical, scientific explanations of why 5.1 channel headphones are bullshit(plus plenty of non-scientific and illogical reasons why they aren't bullshit. :p )

[NulloModo]

I haven't ever heard a pair of headphones, 5.1 or stereo, that gave anywhere near as realistic and involving music or gaming experience as a good set of speakers.

[m1abram]

Assumption & Conjecture > Experience. It was ever thus on the 'Net. :rolleyes:

Exactly and my experience in audio fields, note I enjoy as a hobby building speakers and amps. Also being an EE helps too. So I agree Experience is better than Assumption & Conjecture. I have the experience to know that a decent designed set of stereo headphones will sound better than a pair of 5.1 headphones.

[Treyshadow]

I have used the Medusa Phones before for long gaming sessions.

They are well.... OK, let me explain.

First my background:
I have several nice pairs of Headphones to include the Senn HD650 and Senn HD580 and Beyer Dynamics DT990 Pro. In the past I have had the Audio technica ATH-500, AKG 240, Senn HD280, and Sony V6. I also dabbled with the zalman 5.1 headphones (just say no).

Anyway, the Medusa headphones pads are very close to the speakers. They seem to compress a lot when wearing them to the point of almost on ear. Since I was used to the much much nice pads of the Beyer Dynamics and the Senns, I did not like the feeling of these phones. They also had a very small sound stage. Tiny even, I didn't expect that from a 5.1 headphone.

Audiowise, they are OK, not good, not great, not even up to the HD280 in sound quality, but they do a rather good job of positional audio even with an audigy class sound card. In 5.1 they are pretty believable, but the fronts have lots to be desired. Running powerDVD with Dolby Headphone on the Sennheiser HD580 or the Audio Technica ATH-500 was more believable than the Medusa cans in 5.1

The medusa cans did have a nice little headamp for them, but also they fell apart quicker than expected. 3 of my gaming buddies purchased these when you had to get them from Overseas. All 3 sets have failed where one headphone was not working. Recabling the speaker was all that it took to repair.

Overall I would give these a 5 on the good headphone scale, and most decent 2 channel headphones sound much better 80 percent of the time. The only shining example I had with these was tracking folks in Max Payne II. It was really very good. However in almost every other game I preferred the Audio Technica ATH-500

[Ronco]

We're talking mainly games with occasional use for music. EE or not, I would suggest you actually try these things in a like for like situation. Most of the posts asking for 5.1 recommendations here start "I want a headset for 9x% gaming". For that, all I'm saying is that the Medusa is a valid competitor. They do require some tuning of the volume in order to get decent positioning... I used the RMAA test tool to do that. After that, I enjoyed better snap positioning than the other headphones I own that I tested CMSS with.

[m1abram]

For the price I would still suggest CMSS capable soundcard and a decent set of headphones like the ATH-500.

5.1 headphones are just too much of a gimmick for me to even waste my time buying to test and have to return. If someone wants to lend me a pair I would gladly test them out.

I personally have a set of ATH-900, however they extend the price range a bit. Some of the most comfortable and natural sounding headphones I have used.

Here is another point, I rarely will make a statement regarding how something works prior to using it for myself. You are correct you should not do that, but in this case it is too much of a "Gimmick" to give it the time.

[Vertigo Acid]

My SQ opinions are based on the zalman 5.1

[Ronco]

Gimmick they may be, but you still haven't used them. I've compared it with my own regular headphones, the Stax Omega II and the Sennheiser Orpheus... both of which are somewhat superior to the ATH-A900 in terms of 'natural presentation' among other attributes. After tuning, I find the Medusa still a better bet for gaming.


CMSS does movement within the 3D soundstage better. It's easy to get a positioning cue if the sounds are moving around. However, when they suddenly appear I find the Medusa the better headphone for immediately turning to that sound. Neither though provide a truly opened out, realistic 3D soundstage.

[Flayum]

Ok then... I should really stick with Stereo headphones and use the CMSS-3D on the X-Fi. Keeping in mind that I'm no audiophile in any way, what headphones would you suggest for <$100? I'd use them for both gaming and music, however I'm not really a big fan of bass. Even on a 7.1 speaker set-up for my Home Theatre, I tend to turn the sub-wolfer down way-low. I also don't like these "Open-Air" headphones that projects some of the sound out into the room. If you guys could provide any suggestions, I'd be much obliged.

Options I'm considering:
-Steelpad 5H
-SENNHEISER EH150
-SENNHEISER HD477
-Icemat Audio: Black Siberia

[Chastity]

Ronco: I think it's time we examined your testing methodology. Can you please list what games you used to test the headphones, and in what modes, both Windows and Creative. I'm curious to see if you configed the X-Fi properly for optimal 5.1 simulation in CMSS-3D Headphone mode.

..and the simple answer of "why, of course I set it up properly! I have the Stax... blah blah... Orpheus... blah... and as such an experienced audio blah blah blah I would never had made any mistakes in the setup!" will not fly here.

[m1abram]

edit: nevermind staying out of this.

[Ronco]

Ronco: I think it's time we examined your testing methodology. Can you please list what games you used to test the headphones, and in what modes, both Windows and Creative. I'm curious to see if you configed the X-Fi properly for optimal 5.1 simulation in CMSS-3D Headphone mode.

..and the simple answer of "why, of course I set it up properly! I have the Stax... blah blah... Orpheus... blah... and as such an experienced audio blah blah blah I would never had made any mistakes in the setup!" will not fly here.

Peer opinions without adequate basis of experience certainly fly here so why not 'simple answers'? :p

Tell you what, you tell me how I should set both modes and I'll try them out once again. If anyone else wants to validate the test settings then that's OK too. Also, (within reason) what games to test in and how.

[oneils]

You want us to eat our 5.1 headphones?

[m1abram]

Peer opinions without adequate basis of experience certainly fly here so why not 'simple answers'? :p



Ronco I really hope you do not think that what I was giving starting back with my first post was my "opinion". That is wrong, it is simple physics.

I stated I have never used Medusa headphones to dispell any question that it was an opinion. Also I actually have worn a pair of "5.1" headphones, however I can not base any opinion of their quality cause I only had a few minutes with them.

[Ronco]

Ronco I really hope you do not think that what I was giving starting back with my first post was my "opinion". That is wrong, it is simple physics.

I stated I have never used Medusa headphones to dispell any question that it was an opinion. Also I actually have worn a pair of "5.1" headphones, however I can not base any opinion of their quality cause I only had a few minutes with them.


It wasn't just you. However "Simple Physics" doesn't always bear out in the case of its implementation in products. You're assuming CMSS-3D is 100% effective as a counter to the 'muffle & back' effect of the Medusa "rear" driver.


All right, let's put it this way. Would your EE experience lead you to the conclusion that electrostatic drivers would be capable of significantly greater degree of detail than dynamic drivers?

[m1abram]

All right, let's put it this way. Would your EE experience lead you to the conclusion that electrostatic drivers would be capable of significantly greater degree of detail than dynamic drivers?

Yes I would agree with that in general. electrostatic drivers have much lower mass compared to a dynamic driver. This lower mass allows the speaker to "start" and "stop" quicker given much better response particluarly in extremely complex music. They also have downsides, such as higher power requirements and much more sensitive to room placement (i know headphone wise this is not an issue).

edit: Forget to put the disclaimer, outside of listening auditions of friends and stores equipement I have not had a chance to give any decent speakers/headphones using electrostatic drivers a good enough listen for first hand experience. But the tech is sound and would give them a serious listen. In fact I am thinking of my next project is to use some planar tweeters (not really electrostatic but similar) with some full-range drivers to create a nice line array set.

[Chastity]

Peer opinions without adequate basis of experience certainly fly here so why not 'simple answers'? :p

Tell you what, you tell me how I should set both modes and I'll try them out once again. If anyone else wants to validate the test settings then that's OK too. Also, (within reason) what games to test in and how.
I already discussed how to set up CMSS-3D for optimal headphone effect in another thread, but I am more interested in how you set it up. Of course if you are lacking in articulation to elaborate upon your configuration of the software and drivers, of which play an intricate role in a soundcard's performance and/or functionality, I'd understand wholeheartedly. After all, a soundcard is not a CD player, and requires a more fundamental understanding of the pitfalls and function of the PC hardware you utilize.

(If you have not discerned, I believe your adaptation was flawed, and I wish for you to run your tests again.)

[Ronco]

Yes I would agree with that in general. electrostatic drivers have much lower mass compared to a dynamic driver. This lower mass allows the speaker to "start" and "stop" quicker given much better response particluarly in extremely complex music. They also have downsides, such as higher power requirements and much more sensitive to room placement (i know headphone wise this is not an issue).


I would too from an EE point of view. However, if you take two headphones, the range-topping Sony Qualia 010 (dynamic) and the range-topping Stax Omega II (electrostatic) and hand it to a variety of people without explaining the technology involved, it's odds on that people will say that the Qualia is more detailed. What you're doing is exactly the same situation as someone who's heard neither headphone saying that it is physically impossible for the dynamics to have superior detail to the electrostatic. The real-world results depend on the engineering of the product, not necessarily on the physics involved. To assess it's efficacy, you must actually try it.

[Ronco]

I already discussed how to set up CMSS-3D for optimal headphone effect in another thread, but I am more interested in how you set it up. Of course if you are lacking in articulation to elaborate upon your configuration of the software and drivers, of which play an intricate role in a soundcard's performance and/or functionality, I'd understand wholeheartedly. After all, a soundcard is not a CD player, and requires a more fundamental understanding of the pitfalls and function of the PC hardware you utilize.

(If you have not discerned, I believe your adaptation was flawed, and I wish for you to run your tests again.)


I've got the control panel set up synced with the Creative control panel as far as speaker settings are concerned, and both the settings set to Auto. I did read on a separate thread of yours when you indicated that Windows should be set to 5.1 speaker mode. That made theoretical sense to me but in practice it does not make a relevant difference when comparing the two settings in RMAA Sound Positioning test. I also talked to a Creative product manager who said that CMSS-3D for heaphones should be used in headphone mode. Is that the flaw you're referring to?

[dderidex]

I've got the control panel set up synced with the Creative control panel as far as speaker settings are concerned, and both the settings set to Auto. I did read on a separate thread of yours when you indicated that Windows should be set to 5.1 speaker mode. That made theoretical sense to me but in practice it does not make a relevant difference when comparing the two settings in RMAA Sound Positioning test. I also talked to a Creative product manager who said that CMSS-3D for heaphones should be used in headphone mode. Is that the flaw you're referring to?
Can't speak for Chastity, but that DOES sounds like a pretty big flaw, there.

First off, you'll likely want to test in 'game mode' vs 'entertainment mode', as it adds some important effect options for headphone emulation.

Also, you want to make sure the X-Fi kicks into headphone mode when headphones are plugged in - it can be set to automatically do that, but it is not by default. Note that it treats "2/2.1 speakers" mode VERY differently from headphone mode.

[Ronco]

Yes yes, I'm aware of all that thanks. It is in game mode for games and it is in headphone mode for headphones. No need to have it automatically kick in, but I've done that too.


What I was referring to is that Chastity said that the downmixing should be handled by CMSS and to set the Windows Control Panel Audio configuration to 5.1 mode, and to set the Creative X-Fi configuration to headphones. Correct me if I'm wrong here, Chastity. I tried this too but there was no real difference in the 3D imaging.

[Chastity]

Correct. To take advantage of the newer HRTF algorithms, do the following:

1) Unsync Windows from Creative, and throw Windows into 5.1
2) Plug in your headphones, and throw the X-Fi into headphone mode, and Game mode
3) Enable CMSS-3D, and make sure MacroFX and ElevationFilter is ON, not Auto. (Games don't enable it yet) With CMSS-3D off, the hardware HRTF libraries won't be loaded, and you'll be using whatever DirectSound3D supports. Creative used some of their technology aquisitions from Aureal and Sensaura to improve their headphone virtual 5.1 output.
4) Configure game to output 5.1 (if possible)

By doing this, games that get the speaker config from Windows will output 6 channels, and then the CMSS-3D libraries will convert that info into the virtual 5.1 headphone.

I'm sure Thomase will chime in and update this info. :) He mentioned some differences involving Half-Life, but it didn't matter if it was synced or not.

You are also correct that Creative expects you to be using CMSS-3D while gaming. We did testing on 3DSS and showed that panning was alot smoother and accurate when CMSS was enabled on the older Audigys (1/2/ZS/4 Pro).

[thomase]

Correct. To take advantage of the newer HRTF algorithms, do the following:

1) Unsync Windows from Creative, and throw Windows into 5.1
2) Plug in your headphones, and throw the X-Fi into headphone mode, and Game mode
3) Enable CMSS-3D, and make sure MacroFX and ElevationFilter is ON, not Auto. (Games don't enable it yet) With CMSS-3D off, the hardware HRTF libraries won't be loaded, and you'll be using whatever DirectSound3D supports. Creative used some of their technology aquisitions from Aureal and Sensaura to improve their headphone virtual 5.1 output.
4) Configure game to output 5.1 (if possible)

By doing this, games that get the speaker config from Windows will output 6 channels, and then the CMSS-3D libraries will convert that info into the virtual 5.1 headphone.

I'm sure Thomase will chime in and update this info. :) He mentioned some differences involving Half-Life, but it didn't matter if it was synced or not.

You are also correct that Creative expects you to be using CMSS-3D while gaming. We did testing on 3DSS and showed that panning was alot smoother and accurate when CMSS was enabled on the older Audigys (1/2/ZS/4 Pro).


Yup, I'll chime in. Unsynching and setting the game to 5.1 is ONLY necessary in HL2, not the other way around. In any game that uses OpenAL/DirectSound3D, RMAA 3D Audio Test included, you DON'T have to unsynch and set windows/game to 5.1.

Also, a detail... When using OpenAL/DirectSound3D, the application does not output 6 channels directly. Instead, every sound that is played has a set of 3D coordinates associated with it. The OpenAL/DirectSound3D hardware will "render" this sound to whatever speaker configuration you have selected, using HRTF if applicable. For example, if the 3D coordinates specify a sound source above the listener's head, AND ElevationFilter is set to "On" in the CMSS3D panel, the hardware will use HRTF to create the illusion of a sound source above you. Such a position does not correspond to any standard speaker placement, 5.1 or otherwise.

[Chastity]

"Unsynching and setting the game to 5.1 is ONLY necessary in HL2, not the other way around. In any game that uses OpenAL/DirectSound3D, RMAA 3D Audio Test included, you DON'T have to unsynch and set windows/game to 5.1."

To be honest, this fix also improves on some older games. I would like to see a more concise collection of data of what works, and what doesn't. Personally, I'd like to see it not matter, but it does make sense for it to work.

[m1abram]

You know one thing I would like with creatives software. A quick way to turn on and off CMSS. Maybe I am missing an option, but does anyone no of a quick way to do this? Ideally no more than 2 clicks would be preferred. I do not like CMSS turned on when listening to music, however find going through the dialog boxes to turn it off tedious.

[daemionsos]

Lots of hate for 5.1 headsets. I sure like my Turtle Beach 5.1's. Sure they need more equalization to sound good than my sony digital reference units, but I can hear left, right, front and back in them where all I can get from the 2.0 is left right. This is just my personal experience. I am no audiophile. I undoubtedly prefer to use my 5.1 speaker setup, but sometimes I HAVE to be quiet. So you see? If its just temporary until the baby wakes up, who cares if they aren't the greatest? As long as you can tell if that grenade bounce went forward and left or backwards to the right!

<wonders if Turtle Beach maybe actually makes a good set because he can't figure out what everyone else is complaining about>

[Chastity]

You know one thing I would like with creatives software. A quick way to turn on and off CMSS. Maybe I am missing an option, but does anyone no of a quick way to do this? Ideally no more than 2 clicks would be preferred. I do not like CMSS turned on when listening to music, however find going through the dialog boxes to turn it off tedious.
On any with a breakout box, the remote has dial buttons that can adjust effects and turn them on/off. The Elite Pro's breakout has knobs that do the same thing.

[m1abram]

Lots of hate for 5.1 headsets. I sure like my Turtle Beach 5.1's. Sure they need more equalization to sound good than my sony digital reference units, but I can hear left, right, front and back in them where all I can get from the 2.0 is left right. This is just my personal experience. I am no audiophile. I undoubtedly prefer to use my 5.1 speaker setup, but sometimes I HAVE to be quiet. So you see? If its just temporary until the baby wakes up, who cares if they aren't the greatest? As long as you can tell if that grenade bounce went forward and left or backwards to the right!

<wonders if Turtle Beach maybe actually makes a good set because he can't figure out what everyone else is complaining about>

Ok the complaint is that you do not need "5.1" headphones to get surround sound from headphones. Think about it for a second, you have 2 ears why would you need more than 2 speakers? You brain process audio position by the timing and delays between the two soures, 5.1 SPEAKERS are made because of the fact that with speakers you do not know where the ears are in relation to the speaker.

[arman01]

i think anyone interested in high0end extreme audio should check this out:

http://www.holophonic.ch/archivio/testaudio/Cereni%20-%20Holophonic.mp3

wack on a pair of headphones, turn up the volume, and close your eyes, then listen to it

just shows that you can potentially get awesome surround sound with basic headphones....

[Vertigo Acid]

hotlinking = teh no

Here's a rehost for us

http://d1000800.dotsterhost.com/ (http://d1000800.dotsterhost.com/h/Cereni%20-%20Holophonic.mp3)h/Cereni - Holophonic.mp3 (http://d1000800.dotsterhost.com/h/Cereni%20-%20Holophonic.mp3)

[Ronco]

So where are we at with the testing methodology?

[threedd97]

The Medusa 5.1 provides superior 'one hit' positioning cues to my Sennheiser Orpheus or Stax Omega II, among other headphones I have. I use a Creative X-Fi Elite Pro, with the 2-channel phones using EAX/CMSS-3D. The Medusa is used in EAX/5.1 mode with bass redirection. CMSS-3D on the X-Fi has a noticeable improvement on previous attempts at 3D audio. And while the smooth transition in direction of CMSS is better than the Medusa, in terms of being able to tell immediately where a sound is coming from, I find the 5.1 phone to be noticeably more effective.


Perhaps I just got lucky with my first choice but for me, 5.1 headphones work.

Was just about to use you as an example as to why at least the Medusa 5.1's are good.

To the haters of 5.1:
Think about it. If someone who owns the Orpheus or some Stax, he must know what sounds good and what doesn't. And if he prefers a $100 pair of Medusas to a $1,000 pair of headphones for gaming, that says a lot for the Medusas!

[jpmkm]

To the haters of 5.1:
Think about it. If someone who owns the Orpheus or some Stax, he must know what sounds good and what doesn't. And if he prefers a $100 pair of Medusas to a $1,000 pair of headphones for gaming, that says a lot for the Medusas!
I fail to see the logic in that. All it means is that he has money for highend headphones.

[Treyshadow]

Preference. That is what we are talking about.

So he liked the Medusa better. I didn't. No I don't have orpheus headphones, just some lowly Senn HD650's and some beyer DT880's.

Remember Opinions are like Escalades.... Everybody's got one. :D

[computerpro3]

Sennheiser Orpheus or Stax Omega II, among other headphones I have.


Um whollllllllllllly shit.

[Ronco]

Was just about to use you as an example as to why at least the Medusa 5.1's are good.

To the haters of 5.1:
Think about it. If someone who owns the Orpheus or some Stax, he must know what sounds good and what doesn't. And if he prefers a $100 pair of Medusas to a $1,000 pair of headphones for gaming, that says a lot for the Medusas!


No it doesn't say that much for the Medusa as a headphone. All it means is that I prefer the properly configured Medusa against any headphone that I have for it's apparent positioning abilities. This includes not just the Orpheus or those price-comparable with the Medusa. I have also used the A900 and DT770 for gaming. Given the choice I'd have a good but not musically compromised pair of headphones for music and the Medusas for gaming. The DT770 with CMSS for example are somewhat musically compromised for the money, and would rely on CMSS for positioning. As far as I'm concerned, the 5.1 effect works better as although both CMSS and Medusa have similar ways of representing back, the Medusa seems to give a better sense of differentiation of front and back and it gives me a better ability to pinpoint where a single sound came from.


I'm still waiting for setting change suggestions in CMSS to optimise it for both RMAA and selected in-game operation that I haven't tried.

[thomase]

I'm still waiting for setting change suggestions in CMSS to optimise it for both RMAA and selected in-game operation that I haven't tried.

Use the Rightmark 3D Sound positioning test.

When using stereo headphones, configure the X-Fi for Game mode, select Headphones in the speaker settings, and turn on CMSS3D-Headphone, and set both ElevationFilter and MacroFX to On.

When using the Medusas, configure the X-Fi for Game mode, select 5.1 in the speaker settings, and turn off CMSS3D-Surround.

Notice that when using stereo headphones with CMSS3D-Headphone, MacroFX changes how the source sounds when it is close to you, and ElevationFilter changes how the source sounds when it is above or below you. 5.1 with the Medusa's CANNOT give these cues.

Perhaps front/back positioning is better with the Medusas. However, you will have to trade off elevation and MacroFX distance cues.

[Flayum]

Ok, I have come to a crossroads: I must chose between the Sennheiser 485 or the Medusa. Remember, I am no audiofile ($20 headphones currently) & will use them for both gaming (Battlefield 2, upcoming UT2007, etc.) & music (bass not important).

Again, thanks for the help.